TV channel to broadcast assisted suicide

[dreama]

mercy killing which is not out of spite but out of kindness to help the dying to suffer no more if they so wish.

I'm sorry but I disagree with that. I think that often people have selfish reasons for wanting to kill their disabled or elderly family members. They can't be bothered with the burden of these families or they want to inherit their money not have it spent on hospital or nursing home fees.

If they knock off someone who wasn't disabled are generally wanting them to get prison sentances. I think it should be no differant if the person is disabled or elderly.

 

[Jiro]

I'm sorry but I disagree with that. I think that often people have selfish reasons for wanting to kill their disabled or elderly family members. They can't be bothered with the burden of these families or they want to inherit their money not have it spent on hospital or nursing home fees.

If they knock off someone who wasn't disabled are generally wanting them to get prison sentances. I think it should be no differant if the person is disabled or elderly.

ok so your ulterior reason about being against assisted suicide is because of greed. I see.... ok so what about those who want it? Are you going to ignore that request and say - shut up. it's a sin?

 

[Byrdie714]

ok so your ulterior reason about being against assisted suicide is because of greed. I see.... ok so what about those who want it? Are you going to ignore that request and say - shut up. it's a sin?

I think this individual has issues with death in general and questioning her own mortality.

Afterall death is part of life.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I think this individual has issues with death in general and questioning her own mortality.

Afterall death is part of life.

I agree with you.

People with their own issues usually are spearheaded to "help" others who they deem vulnerable when they really aren't capable of doing so. What they really need to do is take a look at themselves and figure out what it is that motivates them and work on themselves.

I subscribe to a philosphy of "tending to your own garden". You need to clean up your own backyard before you go trying to clean up somebody elses. To put it another way, someone with issues regarding their own mortality, has no business controlling how someone else deals with theirs.

 

[Byrdie714]

I have no problem with death and dying.

I think it is a beautiful process.

 

[Jiro]

Not Dead Yet News & Commentary: New Study in BMJ Indicates People with Clinical Depression Getting Lethal Prescriptions in Oregon

"I find it curious that this study was published in the BMJ rather than an American publication. I don't know what - if anything - to make of that."
--Stephen Drake

Drake-Hastings Ctr Article

I'm disregarding this link because it has NOTHING to do with terminally-ill patients. The article is about euthanizing babies with severe disability or medical conditions in Netherlands. Please stay on topic. This article is of no concern to me since we don't live in Netherlands nor do our laws allow us to euthanize babies with severe disabilities. You better take it up to Netherlands government about this issue... you know - like what Sarah Palin said - Netherlands is your next door neighbor and you can actually see Netherlands from England.

Here's an interesting quote that the author wrote - "The main difference between the Dutch system and the American system, I'd suggest, is one of degree. We've set the speed limits at a lower level and mostly resisted requests to raise them." I guess kudos to our American system for making it strictly regulated.

NCD - Assisted Suicide: A Disability Perspective

Again - please stay on the topic.... which is about terminally-ill patients.

I suggest JIRO should follow his own advice and enlighten himself by reading these articles. He might learn something from it.

I learned nothing from the articles you provided since it is not related to terminally-ill patients. But I'll say this to enlighten you -

My own belief is that suicide should be an option available for terminally-ill patients. Unfortunately when you're dealing with psychological problems - mostly depressions, the quest for death becomes their only option and that is how they see it. I don't doubt that many of these poor people were so spiritually bankrupt that this became their only option. Some were in therapy and some not. Therapy takes a very long time and most times it doesn't help. As we sit here in our logical minds, we think one must have a choice. Terminally-ill patients see no light....only darkness.

 

[jillio]

]Depends what you mean by 'terminal'. If she had several years to go I'd suggest she got put on stronger pain releif medicines. [/B]I'd make sure that they were as strong as they needed to be. Also that she was getting councilling and also she was getting all the support she needed before considering anything else.

My dad was with both my grandmother (his mother) and my mom when they were terminally ill. He still doesn't think that Euthanasia should be legal in England. Since they get pain relief to help with suffering. If someone was in too much pain then it would just be because they weren't getting enough medicines although he aslo said mum was in pain but wanted to continue with life. Only she needed a high dose of painreleif and it gave her a heart attack.

There you go. That just blows your reasoning right out of the water. A patient requesting PAS has had to have been pronounced terminal within a 6 month period by two separate physicians, and also undergoes a psychological evaluation.

And, Euthanasia is not Physician Assisted Suicide. They are two entirely different things.

 

[jillio]

The person doesn't have to live like that. They can be given strong pain releif and they won't have to live like that at all.

Mostly these people who want to die aren't on sufficent pain releif for their needs. Often they are not getting enough services to keep what's left of their mind occupied.

You seem just to give the worse case scinario of someone who is dying and in pain but cases of people wanting and getting euthanasia do not always fall into this catagree. Sometimes they could have had a chance for a better life but didn't get it. They got death instead.

And for someone who is just depressed, being able to kill themselves without 'help' is a tragedy. I don't consider it a good thing at all.

Have you ever heard of "intractable pain?" It occurs in the case of terminal illness all the time. Often, the only way to relieve the pain is to give a dose of pain killer large enough to kill the patient. What do you think that is but PAS?

And again, dreama, PAS is not euthanasia. Please stop using the terms interchangably. You are completely incorrect in doing so, and it simply shows that you have no understanding whatsoever of the topic.

 

[Jiro]

I'm afraid I don't know what my grandmother's desires were.

My Dad tells me that mother definately wanted to remain amongst the living despite the pain that her cancer caused.

I really hope that was your mother's intent. If not... well shame on your dad.

Humans are adaptable. Even lifestyles that some may consider harsh are preferable to death. Thinking isn't everything. There is always things that can be enjoyed by visits from loved relatives that make life worth living.

yea.. good luck adapting to this excruciating pain. Are you sure you're not confusing their needs with your selfish needs? I doubt the relatives visit them every single day. Not that it's mean but it's reality. What's wrong with saying good bye to loved ones and to have last words? At least they will die with happy memory of that instead of being in constant pain.

Often it is not the illness or the pain that make life intolerable but people's attitudes. This is likely to get worse if Euthanisa was legal. You would get families presurizing their sick relatives to die so they could inherit their money.

So is that what happened to your family? sounds like you have an issue to resolve but not everybody's case has something to do with inheritance money.

That is just your interpretation of death. Some people's interpretation is differant. I think that people get reincarnated after they die. But of course who knows what really happens. It's unknown. So we we think it is merciful to send people into the unknown without knowing what happens next.

Your interpretation that life simply stops would make me want to cling on to life more firmly then ever since I don't want to die.

that's the thing. Human is the only species in the world that know when they will die. The terminally-ill patients know when their time is up so the question is - would you respect that wish?

 

[jillio]

Excuse me but I know more on this subject then YOU Do. I'm quite Educated. I understand EVERYTHING. I just don't believe the clap trap that the pro euthasia people spew out.

Do you think that intelligent conversation is EVERYTHING. Well it isn't. Life is worth living under any cercumstances since nobody really knows what death is like.
So I understand perfectly well what is happening. More then you do in fact.

That is your opinion, and you are perfectly free to make your decisions for your life, and your death, based on that opinion. However, to tell anyone else that they must follow your ruiles in making their life decisions is nothing less than egotistical nand preseumptuous.

 

[jillio]

I agree with you.

People with their own issues usually are spearheaded to "help" others who they deem vulnerable when they really aren't capable of doing so. What they really need to do is take a look at themselves and figure out what it is that motivates them and work on themselves.

I subscribe to a philosphy of "tending to your own garden". You need to clean up your own backyard before you go trying to clean up somebody elses. To put it another way, someone with issues regarding their own mortality, has no business controlling how someone else deals with theirs.

Very well said!!

 

[jillio]

by the way it wasn't my grandmother who had a heart attack from High dose of medicine. It was my mother. She had cancer that meant pain releif was neccessary.

People keep talking about the terminally ill in pain but they aren't the only ones to be considered for Euthanasia. People try to simplify matters when they don't acnolege that people can suffer both from depression AND a severe physical ailment.

This woman who wants Euthanasia to be legal in England said if she was an animal people would have put her down long ago. Yes she actually uses the term 'put down'. That person doesn't need Euthanasia. She needs to see a councillor to help her. We certainly don't want people to be 'put down' like animals are. That would be a very big step backwards.

You most certainly do have to be terminally ill to qualify for PAS. No where is Euthanasia being considered as legal. We are discussing PAS. Surely, with the fact that you have claimed to know EVERYTHING, you understand the difference between the two, and are simply trying to change the subject.

And that woman in England is probably more realistic about life and death than you yourself are. I'd say she is not in need of a counselor. She has already come to terms with her mortality, and with her chosen quality of lfe.

 

[dreama]

I really hope that was your mother's intent. If not... well shame on your dad.

Are you accusing my dad of lying?

He was with my mum and she definately wanted to continue life.

It seems you will disregard EVERYTHING that is not pro euthanasia as IREVELANT however to the point they are.

If you had bothered to read the articles you would realise exactly HOW revelant they were.

My reasons for being against Euthanasia have NOTHING to do with sin.

We should help people who have to come to terms with disability and terminally illness by IMPROVING their life not hastening their deaths. After all suicide is often a cry for help. So we should help them realise their value amonst the living. NOT amongst the dead.

 

[Byrdie714]

Are you accusing my dad of lying?

He was with my mum and she definately wanted to continue life.

It seems you will disregard EVERYTHING that is not pro euthanasia as IREVELANT however to the point they are.

If you had bothered to read the articles you would realise exactly HOW revelant they were.

My reasons for being against Euthanasia have NOTHING to do with sin.

We should help people who have to come to terms with disability and terminally illness by IMPROVING their life not hastening their deaths. After all suicide is often a cry for help. So we should help them realise their value amonst the living. NOT amongst the dead.

Do you understand the definition of terminal illness? One can't improve an individual's life that is suffering from a terminal illness. All we can do is make them comfortable.

If the individual with terminal illness wants to end their life--it's their right. Not yours.

 

[dreama]

A key implication of people with disabilities' experience with pain and dysfunction is the need for more frequent and informed use of pain relief medication. The American Medical Association (AMA) and the United States Government have both acknowledged that physicians have not done an adequate job in treating pain.(57) To address this problem, the AMA, the American Board of Internal Medicine, the American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine, and other medical organization have undertaken various initiatives to improve the training and continuing education of doctors in pain relief measures for persons with terminal medical conditions.(58) According to medical authorities, many physicians are not sufficiently familiar with the use of various treatments, including heavy doses of morphine, to control pain in dying patients.(59) Medical ethics standards permit doctors to prescribe medication to relieve pain even if the necessary dose will hasten death.(60) Better training of physicians in techniques and standards for treatment of pain should be a primary goal, so that all individuals who are confronted with serious pain can have maximum relief. Moreover, hospice and other programs and treatments to make the process of dying more comfortable and peaceful should be made widely available.

This is an extract from one of my links which are supposedly 'not releivant'.

 

[Jiro]

Are you accusing my dad of lying?

He was with my mum and she definately wanted to continue life.

It seems you will disregard EVERYTHING that is not pro euthanasia as IREVELANT however to the point they are.

If you had bothered to read the articles you would realise exactly HOW revelant they were.

My reasons for being against Euthanasia have NOTHING to do with sin.

We should help people who have to come to terms with disability and terminally illness by IMPROVING their life not hastening their deaths. After all suicide is often a cry for help. So we should help them realise their value amonst the living. NOT amongst the dead.

no i did not say your dad lied. Why do you want to ignore their request to die? It's their life and it's their choice to do what they want with their life. If your dad wishes to be terminated, would you accept it?

and how do you exactly improve terminally-ill patients' life when they're in constant pain? pump them more drugs that will knock them out or may cause them to get a heart attack?

btw - I did actually read the articles and I see no relation to this issue which is about terminally-ill patients in USA. You gave me an article about Netherlands.... euthanasia.... babies with severe disabilities.... Nothing about terminally-ill patients in USA and the article even said that American system is better than Dutch System.

 

[jillio]

This is an extract from one of my links which are supposedly 'not releivant'.

All this is talking about is palliative care. Once again, you are confusing two issues. PAS is an option when palliative care is no longer effective in the case of terminal illness and intractable pain. It has absolutely nothing to do with disability.

 

[Hear Again]

Do you understand the definition of terminal illness? One can't improve an individual's life that is suffering from a terminal illness. All we can do is make them comfortable.

If the individual with terminal illness wants to end their life--it's their right. Not yours.

 

[Jiro]

All this is talking about is palliative care. Once again, you are confusing two issues. PAS is an option when palliative care is no longer effective in the case of terminal illness and intractable pain. It has absolutely nothing to do with disability.

dreama - it would actually make things lot easier for everybody if you understand that perfectly and actually stick with that.

 

[Byrdie714]

And why is that , Hear Again ?