Russia proposes change in the Constitution.

[Jiro]

Here's a wonderful scenario:

An aging Alzheimer's victim keeps a gun in the house for protection. He is at the stage where he is lucid one moment and suffering dementia the next. One afternoon, his wife goes out to check the mail, comes back in and he doesn't recognize her due to the Alzheimer's. He reaches into the drawer on the end table, pulls out a gun, and shoots her dead.

Yep. The great equalizer.

Here's a reality check - when diagnosed with mental illness - that is an automatic disqualification of federal firearm license.

 

[jillio]

Here's a reality check - when diagnosed with mental illness - that is an automatic disqualification of federal firearm license.

And what is to stop him from being in possession of a firearm obtained prior to the onset of the illness?

Here is a reality check. The scenario was based on an actual event.

 

[Jiro]

No, I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that you do not pull a gun unless you are prepared to fire it. It puts you in a very dangerous position. Why pull a weapon if you don't plan to use it? Criminals are not that easily intimidated. And chances are better that you will piss them off rather than intimidate them by just standing there holding a gun.

Shooting someone just to protect property can land you in jail. Think back to the case of the man who went to jail for shooting and killing a teen ager stealing a bail of straw. It was his property, but his life was not in danger, and pulling a gun and shooting the teen was manslaughter. By the same token, the teen was already driving away, so if he had pulled the gun and ordered them to stop and wait for the police, they would have laughed at him and continued to drive away.

Of course, it is your decision, but I am not going to kill a human being over a piece of property that can be replaced. That's what I have insurance for.

I see... but 2 problems - it's not always the property. it's your life and that is irreplaceable. so are your loved ones. and Not all criminals would be fearless and pissed off when pointed with a gun. They'd be scared shitless.

 

[Jiro]

And what is to stop him from being in possession of a firearm obtained prior to the onset of the illness?

and what is to stop an elderly from driving a car/truck prior to the onset of the illness? we have heard more in news about elderly plowing thru store/restaurant/place than accidental shootings.

that scenario was based on actual events.... several times....

 

[jillio]

I see... but 2 problems - it's not always the property. it's your life and that is irreplaceable. so are your loved ones. and Not all criminals would be fearless and pissed off when pointed with a gun. They'd be scared shitless.

Well, you can risk it if you want to. Personally, unless my life is being threatened, I wouldn't pull a weapon.

Nice to know that you think criminals are so scared of guns. Rather naive of you, to say the least.

And someone who is scared shitless is far less predictable and likely to do harm than someone who isn't.

 

[dreama]

me too dreama, no not the independent party, i feel it's a wasted vote, but I don't wnat anything to do with europe or their damn euro, europe as a federation of states only came about through french and german hatred of the US, basically, when there are trade disagreements when the US flexes it's muscle each of us have no chance of havign any effect on their economy, but europe as whole, would be a force to be reckoned with, but thats france for you, i dont share their views nor policies, I woudl much rather keep the "special friendship" alive, I wish to god the US would allow the UK to enter the north atlantic trade treaty so we can put this euro debate to bed once and for all, if we evertually get the euro, i'm up for emigration

I agree with you there.

 

[Jiro]

Well, you can risk it if you want to. Personally, unless my life is being threatened, I wouldn't pull a weapon.

Nice to know that you think criminals are so scared of guns. Rather naive of you, to say the least.

actually no. i don't assume anything except one thing - all criminals pose a threat to me - no matter how small or big. Criminal's a criminal. They automatically assume a risk of being harmed from victim's defensive action.

Simple as that. very very simple. As simple as a warning sign on property - "BEWARE OF DOGS."

 

[jillio]

and what is to stop an elderly from driving a car/truck prior to the onset of the illness? we have heard more in news about elderly plowing thru store/restaurant/place than accidental shootings.

that scenario was based on actual events.... several times....

Nothing is to stop them prior. But we can take their license away legally if they are shown to be incompetent. Can't take away their gun.

 

[dreama]

If you are going to ban guns. You should also ban cars as they can also kill. In fact they kill rather a lot of people in Britian.

Can someone from USA tell me the death rate from guns compaired with the death rate from road accidents? I'm just curious.

I also think if an older person feels safer with a gun in their home, Even if they don't use it, that it isn't a bad thing.

 

[jillio]

actually no. i don't assume anything except one thing - all criminals pose a threat to me - no matter how small or big. Criminal's a criminal. They automatically assume a risk of being harmed from victim's defensive action.

Simple as that. very very simple. As simple as a warning sign on property - "BEWARE OF DOGS."

All criminals are a threat to you? What about the guy who runs a red light when you are home asleep in your bed? He is a criminal. He has broken the law. What threat did he pose to you. What about the man who has been convicted of vandalism in a state other than the one in which you live? How is he a threat to you. All is a encompassing term that implies paranoia.

 

[Jiro]

Nothing is to stop them prior. But we can take their license away legally if they are shown to be incompetent. Can't take away their gun.

and if they lose federal firearm license... they have to surrender their guns as ordered by court. Even a family member or friend or anybody can file a complaint with police/court to have their gun/license removed if they feel they are incompetent. same thing for car.

 

[jillio]

If you are going to ban guns. You should also ban cars as they can also kill. In fact they kill rather a lot of people in Britian.

Can someone from USA tell me the death rate from guns compaired with the death rate from road accidents? I'm just curious.

I also think if an older person feels safer with a gun in their home, Even if they don't use it, that it isn't a bad thing.

Who is talking about banning guns?

Guns in the home provide a false sense of security. Especially for the above mentioned wife that was shot by her husband in a case of mistaken identity.

 

[jillio]

and if they lose federal firearm license... they have to surrender their guns as ordered by court. Even a family member or friend or anybody can file a complaint with police/court to have their gun/license removed if they feel they are incompetent. same thing for car.

Ah, yes, but how often is it done with either driver's license or guns? The first indication that there is a serious problem is usually a serious accident with the car, or an accident with the gun. The accident with the gun is far more likely to be fatal, either to the owner or someone else.

And, when someone claims incompetence, there must be a competency hearing. The time period that lapses between claim and court hearing leaves everyone vulnerable.

 

[Jiro]

All criminals are a threat to you? What about the guy who runs a red light when you are home asleep in your bed? He is a criminal. He has broken the law. What threat did he pose to you. What about the man who has been convicted of vandalism in a state other than the one in which you live? How is he a threat to you. All is a encompassing term that implies paranoia.

uh... i thought you have a decent common sense? I'm talking about any intruders who pose immediate threat to me. In plain english for you - an intruder in my house is automatically a criminal. A person who assaulted me is automatically a criminal. A person who trespassed my property is automatically a criminal to me.

Any criminal who posed an immediate threat to me automatically accepts the risk of being harmed by defensive action. All is an encompassing term that implies.. Self Defense

 

[Jiro]

Ah, yes, but how often is it done with either driver's license or guns?

you tell me but I can say that gun is not exposed to public daily thus poses a far less danger to public. Car does.

The first indication that there is a serious problem is usually a serious accident with the car, or an accident with the gun. The accident with the gun is far more likely to be fatal, either to the owner or someone else.

So numbers of injured people is better than 1 dead? As the matter of fact - the number of accidents (both fatal or seriously injured) by car are far more numerous than the number of accidental shootings. That is unacceptable to me. Everyday I'm on the street - I have to worry about drivers... not shooters. So do all of us.

And, when someone claims incompetence, there must be a competency hearing. The time period that lapses between claim and court hearing leaves everyone vulnerable.

right.... same thing for elder drivers. The time period that lapses between claim and court hearing leaves everyone vulnerable as the elders continue to drive.

Talk about misplacement of fear.

 

[jillio]

uh... i thought you have a decent common sense? I'm talking about any intruders who pose immediate threat to me. In plain english for you - an intruder in my house is automatically a criminal. A person who assaulted me is automatically a criminal. A person who trespassed my property is automatically a criminal to me.

Any criminal who posed an immediate threat to me automatically accepts the risk of being harmed by defensive action. All is an encompassing term that implies.. Self Defense

That may have been what you were talking about, but it certainly isn't what you said.

And two of those may be criminals, but unless they are committig a violent crime they don't pose a threat to you, but to your property.

 

[jillio]

you tell me but I can say that gun is not exposed to public daily thus poses a far less danger to public. Car does.


So numbers of injured people is better than 1 dead? As the matter of fact - the number of accidents (both fatal or seriously injured) by car are far more numerous than the number of accidental shootings. That is unacceptable to me. Everyday I'm on the street - I have to worry about drivers... not shooters. So do all of us.


right.... same thing for elder drivers. The time period that lapses between claim and court hearing leaves everyone vulnerable as the elders continue to drive.

Talk about misplacement of fear.

Your logic just flew out the window, Jiro!

 

[Jiro]

That may have been what you were talking about, but it certainly isn't what you said.

And two of those may be criminals, but unless they are committig a violent crime they don't pose a threat to you, but to your property.

do you have some kind of portable testing device to see if the criminals pose a harm to you or not. sorry but you don't know that. if you want to take that chance - go ahead.

this does not mean i will shoot them. it's actually that simple. i point at gun at them, command them to lie down and stay still till police arrives. if they refused to comply and continues to approach me, sorry. their fault. i regret nothing.

 

[Jiro]

Your logic just flew out the window, Jiro!

so did yours as the statistics does not back you.

 

[jillio]

so did yours as the statistics does not back you.

What statistics would those be? I didn't cite any and neither did you.