Selective abortion.

[netrox]

I could NEVER comprehend WHY women would want to take away the rights of women to decide what they want to do with their pregnancy. As long as fetus is inside them, we have no business to get our hands on their fetuses. If a woman wants abortion because of ANY reason, fine. That's her choice, not yours.

What business does a "pro-life" person have to mingle with a woman's body?

A fetus is NOT a mini-adult. It doesn't understand concepts of life and death. It doesn't have the ability to perceive pain the way we perceive pain. Pro-life people often project their OWN PERSONAL experiences unto them when in fact, the fetuses have NO idea what pro-life people are feeling.

If my mother decided to abort me, that's her decision. If it's because I am deaf or a male, fine. It's her decision. I wouldn't KNOW!

Pro-life people try to say, "a fetus could become a famous president or whatever..." well, we should have aborted Hitler and Stalin to save millions of lives. That logic makes no sense. We CANNOT predict what a fetus will become, period. A fetus can become a nun or a serial killer. Again, that logic is thrown out. If I COULD predict what a fetus will become and that fetus would be nothing but a hellraiser, I'd BE HAPPY to abort it! If I could predict that he'll become a scientist and finding a cure for a deadly disease, I'd be HAPPY to keep it!

 

[Maria]

How do you know if it has it or not?

Breathin' of life. Fetus is alive in its mother's womb since the conception first began. The cells work together to form a life in fetus.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I could NEVER comprehend WHY women would want to take away the rights of women to decide what they want to do with their pregnancy. As long as fetus is inside them, we have no business to get our hands on their fetuses. If a woman wants abortion because of ANY reason, fine. That's her choice, not yours.

What business does a "pro-life" person have to mingle with a woman's body?

A fetus is NOT a mini-adult. It doesn't understand concepts of life and death. It doesn't have the ability to perceive pain the way we perceive pain. Pro-life people often project their OWN PERSONAL experiences unto them when in fact, the fetuses have NO idea what pro-life people are feeling.

If my mother decided to abort me, that's her decision. If it's because I am deaf or a male, fine. It's her decision. I wouldn't KNOW!

Pro-life people try to say, "a fetus could become a famous president or whatever..." well, we should have aborted Hitler and Stalin to save millions of lives. That logic makes no sense. We CANNOT predict what a fetus will become, period. A fetus can become a nun or a serial killer. Again, that logic is thrown out. If I COULD predict what a fetus will become and that fetus would be nothing but a hellraiser, I'd BE HAPPY to abort it! If I could predict that he'll become a scientist and finding a cure for a deadly disease, I'd be HAPPY to keep it!

 

[Maria]

It's her religion views, nothing is special.

To has nothin' to do with RELIGION. It has to do with " life " by HOW the fetus was made.

 

[Foxrac]

To has nothin' to do with RELIGION. It has to do with " life " by HOW the fetus was made.

No, it's part of religion view, period.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

To has nothin' to do with RELIGION. It has to do with " life " by HOW the fetus was made.

It has to do with how each person defines life.

 

[Maria]

Fetus don't have soul either, what matters with fetus and religion.

Call mother who abort the fetus to save the life an murderer is immoral and illogical, again, WHO CARES? I don't give a damn about fetus being soul or spirit in your views.

Ohhh, yes fetus DOES have a soul. You can't contradict fetus AND religion. Those 2 issues are different.

 

[Foxrac]

Ohhh, yes fetus DOES have a soul. You can't contradict fetus AND religion. Those 2 issues are different.

No, again, it's STILL part of religion, period.

For me, fetus has NO soul, that it.

 

[Jiro]

Okay... So, is really that disabled child's life much worth ending in the attempt to make another's life much easier, is that correct? Is really that much easy if there are no disabled people in the Earth, right? I think 'normal' people probably think so... well, the disabled child is an effect, a disabled child should not be considered as a low human being as if they are not valued... Hey, it's just my POV, that's all. Peace.

it's not about making another life's easier or not. it's about mother as a primary caregiver's ability to provide necessity for her child. if she cannot do it - then it's logical of her to end it. yes you can say - why not give him/her up for adoption? well - i don't think any one of us want to see our child being in foster care or being taken care by stranger - too many unknown factors. We all have heard of horrors such as abuses, neglects, child sex, child labor, kids becoming a criminal because of lack of love or whatever, etc. It's more humane to abort the child than to subject the child to lifelong of negligence.

 

[Babyblue]

Huh ? I don't think you understand my view. It has nothin' to do with slander or liable. It has to do with my VIEW the way I see it fits. It's all about " takin' a fetus' life away " or " killin' fetus " and, that's murder to me. That fetus hasno voice to speak against which I think it is not fair. I would say that way I see a mother or woman bein' selfish to save her own life by gettin' rid of fetus. I would say that it is the only way out to save one self's guilty. I have the right to voice my view and say my pieces here. I support fetus than mother or woman if, her life can not be saved.

And, again - you and I don't have the same views. We don't have the same conceptions in our opinions. You may say somethin' what you view it and I may say mine as well.

Soo... You woulc rather the mother commit suicide and the fetus die. I don't think you understand if mom dies the fetus dies therefore they both die.

That mom may have other children that are already living and family. So who is being selfish afterall?

 

[KarissaMann05]

I could NEVER comprehend WHY women would want to take away the rights of women to decide what they want to do with their pregnancy. As long as fetus is inside them, we have no business to get our hands on their fetuses. If a woman wants abortion because of ANY reason, fine. That's her choice, not yours.

What business does a "pro-life" person have to mingle with a woman's body?

A fetus is NOT a mini-adult. It doesn't understand concepts of life and death. It doesn't have the ability to perceive pain the way we perceive pain. Pro-life people often project their OWN PERSONAL experiences unto them when in fact, the fetuses have NO idea what pro-life people are feeling.

If my mother decided to abort me, that's her decision. If it's because I am deaf or a male, fine. It's her decision. I wouldn't KNOW!

Wow... What's about your friends? People you truly care and knew well?

Pro-life people try to say, "a fetus could become a famous president or whatever..." well, we should have aborted Hitler and Stalin to save millions of lives. That logic makes no sense. We CANNOT predict what a fetus will become, period. A fetus can become a nun or a serial killer. Again, that logic is thrown out. If I COULD predict what a fetus will become and that fetus would be nothing but a hellraiser, I'd BE HAPPY to abort it! If I could predict that he'll become a scientist and finding a cure for a deadly disease, I'd be HAPPY to keep it!

I already explained it, on #27 post.

 

[netrox]

They are trying to tell me and others like me what is right for me, and I am fundamentally opposed to that.

Exactly my sentiment.

A lot of parents don't want to have disabled children and I read that the majority of pregnant women who found out that their fetus has Downs Syndrome aborted them because they don't want to raise DS kid which requires a lot of resources. Naturally, that would hurt DS persons feelings, feeling like they're not worth their life but keep in mind DS is a serious disability and does impose a burden on families, mentally, emotionally, and financially but there are people that are HAPPY to take those challenges for any reason.

However, no woman should be forced to take challenges if she is not ready.

 

[Jiro]

Do you know why there should be NO debate about abortion? We came way way too far with heavy cost to win our rights and freedom from oppressive world. This is America - the freedom of speech, choices, religions, etc. You are free to choose whatever you want with your body. I understand your concern/issue/belief/etc. but I'm sorry to say it is of no concern to me. Your situation is of no concern to me because it's not my business. You, as a person (NOT WOMAN), have a rights to choose whatever you want with your body and for your fetus/baby/child. What about men? If i choose to have a vasectomy or castration, wouldn't I be murdering a life? My sperm has some soul and it's alive. :roll:

A fetus/baby/child is 100% dependent on mother - the primary caregiver. Yes father plays a role but not as powerful as mother's - just sperm, money, and some fatherly role. Mother is empowered with hard-earned rights to vote, work, divorce, etc. Having a rights to abort is another empowerment for woman as a person. Notice that I choose the word "person" instead of "woman" because I strongly strongly believe in gender equality. Men and Women are no different to me. They are equal to me in my eyes as a person... an individual. I understand you grew up under circumstance regarding abortion which have led you to become a pro-life person. In my case - my first childhood best friend was a girl and I grew up with some close female friends all my life. That circumstance led me to believe in a complete gender equality.

Abolishing abortion is one big step away from true equality and woman's rights as a person. That woman would be reduced to a living incubator governed by government. What's next? Government declaring that women should earn less than men? Government taking away wife's rights to divorce? Is that what you want? Taking away rights to have abortion is no different.

You as the mother have a complete control over your child's life until he/she is 18 years old. You have the rights to choose the food, education, lifestyle, etc. for your child. You especially have the rights to make medical decision for your child that may or may not . No one knows better than a woman herself to decide the fetus's fate because that woman is the one who has to care for him/her, not pro-lifers.

Please do not push your belief in others. It is nothing but a gross hypocrisy.

 

[netrox]

"Wow... What's about your friends? People you truly care and knew well?"

Last time I checked, they were not aborted. They're not fetuses anymore. That question does NOT make sense at all.

 

[KarissaMann05]

If that's the way you see it, then OK. But, I am disabled, so I think I have a much better idea of what life is like for someone like me. When a fetus is suspected of having an anomaly, all the Dr can do is give projections of how severely affected the fetus will be. It is then up to the woman to weigh the implications of her decision either to continue the pregnancy or to terminate it. Only SHE has the right to make that decision. Nobody has the right to decide that for her, and that is what anti abortion advocates are trying to do. They are trying to tell me and others like me what is right for me, and I am fundamentally opposed to that.

it's not about making another life's easier or not. it's about mother as a primary caregiver's ability to provide necessity for her child. if she cannot do it - then it's logical of her to end it. yes you can say - why not give him/her up for adoption? well - i don't think any one of us want to see our child being in foster care or being taken care by stranger - too many unknown factors. We all have heard of horrors such as abuses, neglects, child sex, child labor, kids becoming a criminal because of lack of love or whatever, etc. It's more humane to abort the child than to subject the child to lifelong of negligence.

Thank you for comments and share with us.

On the first post -
Ah, gotcha! I get it what you do mean.

On the second post -
As for bond font, not all strangers are "bad" people. Is it really easier if there are only normal and blissful childhoods, and wonderful lifestyles of humans, correct? If the foster care or adoption system is broken, go and fix it. What kind of logic is it to say that 'foster care (or adoption) is bad, we need more abortions!' ? If foster care is overcrowded and abusive, focus on fixing it for the 'born children.' I hardly hear of pro-choice groups involved is such projects. Unwanted does not mean not valuable, too. Well, when the child is wanted is has value, if no one wants the unborn child, it seems to be worthless. Somehow I find it hard to believe that we can asses value so arbitrarily to a human being like that. That's my POV...

 

[KarissaMann05]

"Wow... What's about your friends? People you truly care and knew well?"

Last time I checked, they were not aborted. They're not fetuses anymore. That question does NOT make sense at all.

No, you don't get what I meant. So, never mind.

 

[Jiro]

Thank you for comments and share with us.

On the first post -
Ah, gotcha! I get it what you do mean.

On the second post -
As for bond font, not all strangers are "bad" people. Is it really easier if there are only normal and blissful childhoods, and wonderful lifestyles of humans, correct? If the foster care or adoption system is broken, go and fix it. What kind of logic is it to say that 'foster care (or adoption) is bad, we need more abortions!' ? If foster care is overcrowded and abusive, focus on fixing it for the 'born children.' I hardly hear of pro-choice groups involved is such projects. Unwanted does not mean not valuable, too. Well, when the child is wanted is has value, if no one wants the unborn child, it seems to be worthless. Somehow I find it hard to believe that we can asses value so arbitrarily to a human being like that. That's my POV...

that's why it's entirely up to you as a person to decide. That is so important to understand. For me - I don't feel comfortable putting my child into the system. I have to live with uncertainty - is my child ok? is my child well-fed and well-taken care for? Are foster parents kind loving people? Not every foster kids have happy ending. It's a huge gamble and a huge risk. If there was a trusted friend who would gladly take in my child, then sure I'll do it (let's just pretend I'm a woman for a moment lol). I'm sure there are other infertile couples who would gladly adopt my child but again - I have to live with uncertainty. Maybe it wasn't what they expected. Maybe things changed in the future that they would become more abusive just because it's not their child. Who knows? That's the risk I'm not willing to take for my child and that is my choice.

The reasons like "convenience, normalcy, disability, etc" are of no concern to me. It's not my problem unless it's relating to my child. I make it my business if someone out there is dictating what's right and what's wrong for all. That is a serious violation of people's sacred rights of freedom.

 

[Babyblue]

Do you know why there should be NO debate about abortion? We came way way too far with heavy cost to win our rights and freedom from oppressive world. This is America - the freedom of speech, choices, religions, etc. You are free to choose whatever you want with your body. I understand your concern/issue/belief/etc. but I'm sorry to say it is of no concern to me. Your situation is of no concern to me because it's not my business. You, as a person (NOT WOMAN), have a rights to choose whatever you want with your body and for your fetus/baby/child. What about men? If i choose to have a vasectomy or castration, wouldn't I be murdering a life? My sperm has some soul and it's alive. :roll:

A fetus/baby/child is 100% dependent on mother - the primary caregiver. Yes father plays a role but not as powerful as mother's - just sperm, money, and some fatherly role. Mother is empowered with hard-earned rights to vote, work, divorce, etc. Having a rights to abort is another empowerment for woman as a person. Notice that I choose the word "person" instead of "woman" because I strongly strongly believe in gender equality. Men and Women are no different to me. They are equal to me in my eyes as a person... an individual. I understand you grew up under circumstance regarding abortion which have led you to become a pro-life person. In my case - my first childhood best friend was a girl and I grew up with some close female friends all my life. That circumstance led me to believe in a complete gender equality.

Abolishing abortion is one big step away from true equality and woman's rights as a person. That woman would be reduced to a living incubator governed by government. What's next? Government declaring that women should earn less than men? Government taking away wife's rights to divorce? Is that what you want? Taking away rights to have abortion is no different.

You as the mother have a complete control over your child's life until he/she is 18 years old. You have the rights to choose the food, education, lifestyle, etc. for your child. You especially have the rights to make medical decision for your child that may or may not . No one knows better than a woman herself to decide the fetus's fate because that woman is the one who has to care for him/her, not pro-lifers.

Please do not push your belief in others. It is nothing but a gross hypocrisy.

Excellent post!
Never though about the male perspective.

Guess I learn something new everday.

No offense... But would a male masterbating be considered as abortion? I know sperm plays a role of creating life. But that may be a whole different topic.

 

[Jiro]

I was unexpected to have 2nd child because I want to wait bit longer... I would never tell my 2nd son that he is an unexpected child because it make him feel that I do not wish to have him... All what I told him that we planned to have 2nd child but he came surprisely like a gift to us. He smiled and said that he is a miracle child...

ha ha ha Liebling. oh you. nothing wrong with a little white lie. My mom told me that I was an unplanned birth. I laughed. I was "procreated" just a couple months after their wedding so I was basically born on the same year as their wedding. My parents planned to have kids just a couple years after wedding so they can go enjoy life - traveling or whatever they wanna do. Oh well! tough luck! You can bet your ass that I came out of my mom like this -

 

[dreama]

The heading of this thread is SELECTIVE ABORTION. So could you kindly keep posts regarding abortion in general in the other thread please. This thread is just to discuss Selective abortion, late term abortion, and Euthanasia. So PLEASE stick to those subjects.

Also I thought these letters might be of intest. There was a proposal of killing new born infants with disabilities. Since they kill them before birth because they are 'worthless' the logic conclusion is to kill them afterwards too.

There was some letters in newspaper people might find interesting:

So, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists is demanding a debate on the issue of killing children on the grounds of disability (Report, November 6). As the mother of a severely disabled young adult, I am appalled at the total arrogance of factions of the medical community, who constantly drag their views on this issue into the media with no regard or consideration for the distress this causes to disabled children, adults and their families. My daughter's life is clearly worth living. Her life may be different to that of a high-earning medic, but this does not lessen its quality. It is not the place of doctors to make generalised judgements on her right to live. Yet the RCOG in its ignorance seeks to deem disabled lives as somehow less worthy - unbelievably reducing their worth to a financial matter. If, as they claim, they care, they should refrain from publicly making such hurtful, ill-informed judgments.
Pat Duffield
Weston-super-Mare
Somerset

The proposal that euthanasia should be considered for severely disabled newborn babies highlights how undervalued disabled children are and the desperate lack of support for their families. The debate underestimates the extent to which disabled children can be a source of joy and can strengthen a family - if the right support is in place. Our society has a responsibility to look after and support its most vulnerable citizens, including disabled children. To this end, we have launched the Every Disabled Child Matters campaign (edcm.org.uk) to make sure every disabled child gets the services and support they need so that their families can live ordinary lives. It is the lack of services and support for families, not a child's impairments, that is the problem that the health service and the caring professions need to address.
Francine Bates
Contact a Family
Christine Lenehan
Council for Disabled Children
Jo Williams
Mencap

Link: here: Letters: Debate that harms disabled children | Society | The Guardian

Care Not Killing - 'Assisted dying' – is it now the turn of the new-born?