GingRICH - Page 8

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

No, these are all well-stated facts. People didn't make this up. *shrugs* The fact is, he did try to pinpoint the blame on the government for causing him to engage in extramarital affairs. He said that he knew what he was doing was wrong, yet he did it anyway. This is a selfish prick we are talking about, he doesn't care about you nor anyone else. He just want your vote. That's all that matters to him.

So? History has a lot of relevance, if people don't learn from them, they are doomed to repeat it again.

Of course, Bill Clinton lied under oath which was illegal. But he is no longer the president of the USA. People moved on a long time ago. Newt is now eyeing the Oval Office. The only reason that he had to be "honest" about certain things was because he got busted. If he never got busted on anything, he wouldn't have anything to be honest about.

Newt Gingrich cheated on all of his wives. I wouldn't be surprised if he cheated on his current wife too as well. He's a self-confessed womanizer. Now, Newt was forced out of the government to avoid any further embarrassment to the GOP. Now they want him to run for presidency? Something's wrong with the picture here. Where's the moral compass? Does it not matter to them that he has a history of being highly dishonest? Having an affair is a sign of being perfectly dishonest, there is nothing honest about it.

Yes, it is convenient to know the truth. Better to know more about the person you are voting for than knowing nothing. This way, you can blame yourself instead of the politician.

That one died down pretty quickly. Was it true or not? There weren't much to go on, so people moved on. Besides, we're not talking about Obama. You have a tendency to shift the attention to President Obama quite a bit. You need to move on. President Obama is already in the office and if there was truly a sex scandal, it wouldn't have died down so fast.

Not so fast.

If people moved on a long time ago (and they did) why is something that was admitted to 15 years ago coming up now? Seems you want to shift any republican into a negative light to shift the negative attention away from Obama.

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Not so fast.

Sorry, let me re-clarify...

Quote:

People moved on a long time ago except for Steinhauer.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Sorry, let me re-clarify...

You are forgiven, now let me re-clarify - why is Newt's affair, which happened 15 years ago - at a time you reportedly claim people have moved on from, coming up now?

Is it because you have been unable to move on?

Do you like Obama? I am fairly certain you might. So any negative attention would be quickly skirted to the side right?

Skirted to the side, and negative attention ( FROM 15 YEARS AGO THAT HAS BEEN RE-HASHED A GAZILLION TIMES OVER ) focused on the front runner of the Republican primary (which currently happens to be Newt Gingrich).

**Beowulf** · 01-22-2012, 12:31 PM

Meh. Gingrich is a slimeball.

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

You are forgiven, now let me re-clarify - why is Newt's affair, which happened 15 years ago - at a time you reportedly claim people have moved on from, coming up now?

Is it because you have been unable to move on?

Because he is running for presidency. That's the difference. Bill Clinton isn't the president anymore.

Now, he didn't just have an affair. He had at least two affairs that the public are aware of. The first two marriages ended in divorces due to infidelity. The fact is, marriage itself is considered sacred. Not something to be taken lightly.

History has a lot of relevance and it's quite telling of what character is like. He claims to have learned quite a lot in his lifetime. However, based on the history, it's clear that he hasn't.

The only reason why he partly took responsibility for his wrongdoings is because he believed that God was forgiving and showed mercy. He took the easy way out.

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Do you like Obama? I am fairly certain you might. So any negative attention would be quickly skirted to the side right?

Skirted to the side, and negative attention ( FROM 15 YEARS AGO THAT HAS BEEN RE-HASHED A GAZILLION TIMES OVER ) focused on the front runner of the Republican primary (which currently happens to be Newt Gingrich).

That's the unfortunate part of being a politician, all the skeletons will have to come out of the closet. I didn't make up the rules.

Do I like President Obama? I have to be honest, I have found him to be somewhat withdrawn from the public, emotionally-wise. He's a very private person, far more than President George W. Bush ever was, which I was surprised to learn. However, I can't imagine what he has to go through on a daily basis. It's not a job just anyone would take on. It requires a lot from a person and not to mention highly stressful.

It would be easy to blame him for everything that's going on in your country. However, I feel that would be too easy to do. It's more to do with the entire government, President Obama may be part of the problem, but he's certainly not all of it. The whole government is. The whole system and how it works is what's ruining the country.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Because he is running for presidency. That's the difference. Bill Clinton isn't the president anymore.

Now, he didn't just have an affair. He had at least two affairs that the public are aware of. The first two marriages ended in divorces due to infidelity. The fact is, marriage itself is considered sacred. Not something to be taken lightly.

History has a lot of relevance and it's quite telling of what character is like. He claims to have learned quite a lot in his lifetime. However, based on the history, it's clear that he hasn't.

The only reason why he partly took responsibility for his wrongdoings is because he believed that God was forgiving and showed mercy. He took the easy way out.

Running for President - just like Obama is right?

Now, if there had been absolutely nothing going on between Obama and Vera Baker - why did she leave the country when the story broke she was having an affair with Obama? Was it because of her undying patriotism? She was the finance director of his campaign in illinois. She is currently drawing a check from a government municipality in Chicago - from a foreign country.

Why is this not a three ring circus media event?

Oh, I know ... because it is actually NOT 15 year old news and is currently going on.

That right there is far more incriminating evidence than was given when allegations were made public against Herman Cain.

The voters who helped Gingrich win South Carolina have certainly moved on .... just saying.

Look, I don't like Newt's past. Newt doesn't like his past. I am sure Clinton even feels bad about what he did. But the point is, it happened a long time ago.

edit to add; I never defended his affair - I defended his HONESTY about it. I would much rather have a politician that isn't fearful of telling the truth - no matter how horrible news it may be to themselves.

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Running for President - just like Obama is right?

Naturally, he would be seeking for a re-election. It's expected.

Quote:

Now, if there had been absolutely nothing going on between Obama and Vera Baker - why did she leave the country when the story broke she was having an affair with Obama? Was it because of her undying patriotism? She was the finance director of his campaign in illinois. She is currently drawing a check from a government municipality in Chicago - from a foreign country.

This is the first time I've heard of her being paid by the government. Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying here? Do you realize that people can't really just walk in a bank and get proof of a person's banking history?

Quote:

Why is this not a three ring circus media event?

Because it was National Enquirer.

Quote:

Oh, I know ... because it is actually NOT 15 year old news and is currently going on.

It matters.

Quote:

That right there is far more incriminating evidence than was given when allegations were made public against Herman Cain.

Cain's campaign came to a halt due to all of the allegations being made against him. I don't know if any of these allegations are true, but the way his campaign handled them were done rather poorly. That's what really killed his campaign.

Quote:

The voters who helped Gingrich win South Carolina have certainly moved on .... just saying.

Meh.

Quote:

Look, I don't like Newt's past. Newt doesn't like his past. I am sure Clinton even feels bad about what he did. But the point is, it happened a long time ago.

15 years is not that long. 50 years is.

Quote:

I never defended his affair - I defended his HONESTY about it. I would much rather have a politician that isn't fearful of telling the truth - no matter how horrible news it may be to themselves.

He was only honest about it because he got busted. He is a true hypocrite and still is.

Now, regarding Vera Baker, remember it was National Enquirer who broke the story. Then they quickly revised it and it became a rather short story with vague details. After that, what happened? Not much. I also just checked the National Enquirer, the story seems to have disappeared for good. Guess they didn't have much of a leg to stand on in the first place.

**Reba** · 01-22-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafBadger

...Heck, I know someone who knows Tom Brokaw.

Ha, ha, funny you should say that. Last December, I attended an event where Brokaw was the guest speaker.

Quote:

I know someone who knows Ron Paul.

Apparently Paul knows us since he sent TCS an email.

Quote:

...Doesn't make me an authority on a person's political or social position. We can only go to the public record for that.

Yes, it's the public record, especially voting record, that matters when it comes to what a politician supports. Financial records are also important. Does the person put his money where his mouth is?

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
(Matthew 6:21, KJV Holy Bible)

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

That's the unfortunate part of being a politician, all the skeletons will have to come out of the closet. I didn't make up the rules.

Do I like President Obama? I have to be honest, I have found him to be somewhat withdrawn from the public, emotionally-wise. He's a very private person, far more than President George W. Bush ever was, which I was surprised to learn. However, I can't imagine what he has to go through on a daily basis. It's not a job just anyone would take on. It requires a lot from a person and not to mention highly stressful.

It would be easy to blame him for everything that's going on in your country. However, I feel that would be too easy to do. It's more to do with the entire government, President Obama may be part of the problem, but he's certainly not all of it. The whole government is. The whole system and how it works is what's ruining the country.

Thank you for an honest straight forward answer. My take on Obama is that he is quite possibly a very decent person. But I personally feel he is not ready nor has been ready to be President. You see him as "withdrawn" and I see him as "secretive" - especially after claiming this would be the most transparent presidency ever.

He has divided this nation in a way I have never experienced or seen before.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Naturally, he would be seeking for a re-election. It's expected.

This is the first time I've heard of her being paid by the government. Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying here? Do you realize that people can't really just walk in a bank and get proof of a person's banking history?

Because it was National Enquirer.

So was the John Edwards Story - and it was released to the National Enquirer by Hillary Clinton's campaign staff

It matters.

Cain's campaign came to a halt due to all of the allegations being made against him. I don't know if any of these allegations are true, but the way his campaign handled them were done rather poorly. That's what really killed his campaign.

Meh.

15 years is not that long. 50 years is.

He was only honest about it because he got busted. He is a true hypocrite and still is.

Now, regarding Vera Baker, remember it was National Enquirer who broke the story. Then they quickly revised it and it became a rather short story with vague details. After that, what happened? Not much. I also just checked the National Enquirer, the story seems to have disappeared for good. Guess they didn't have much of a leg to stand on in the first place.

I also remember how the left tried to downplay the John Edwards affair by touting how unreliable the source was (The National Enquirer).

And yes, the National Enquirer was right on the money with the Edwards story and one would wonder why it was released to them and not the mainstream media like the story of Cain's accusers ....

things that make you go hmmmm .....

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 01:11 PM

National Enquirer got lucky with John Edwards.

But again, John Edwards didn't have a chance of winning. He never did. He's not a well-liked person, and I don't know why he was even running for the job in the first place. But again, what do you expect from idiots? They'll do whatever they can do to win.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

National Enquirer got lucky with John Edwards.

But again, John Edwards didn't have a chance of winning. He never did. He's not a well-liked person, and I don't know why he was even running for the job in the first place. But again, what do you expect from idiots? They'll do whatever they can do to win.

It is my opinion that the Edwards story was leaked to The National Enquirer on purpose. The purpose of that would be to discredit the allegations entirely. I mean, who, in their right mind, would have believed it when the front page also shows pictures of bigfoot adopting a penguin?

The Vera Baker story was also leaked to the National Enquirer - and again, in my opinion - on purpose. Just a strategy to make anyone who believed it out to be a right wing birther/truther nutjob or whatever - the purpose was to make someone feel that anyone who took the story as credible, belonged in a padded cell somewhere.

Unfortunately, all the details checked out. The story was not about a Sheep Farmer in North Dakota who was raising aliens in a tiny ant farm (inserting sarcastic smiley that I can't find here).

Vera Baker was the campaign finance manager for Obama's Senate Election - so she wasn't a random rumored fictional person like bigfoot. She did "mysteriously" move to Martinique shortly after Obama was sworn in, and shortly after the story broke. She is getting a paycheck from a municipality from Chicago while living in a foreign country. How she is doing that is anyone's guess. She did have a nice job in DC before she moved. She did hire an attorney after the story broke.

All of the above is questionable at the very least.

**Reba** · 01-22-2012, 01:23 PM

The following is my personal opinion only.

Gingrich's adultery, which happened more than once, shows a pattern of infidelity, not just a one-time "slip." Also, there are some questions about his financial dealings that haven't been cleared up.

As a Christian, I totally believe that God can (and does) forgive all sinners who repent of their sins and turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness and redemption. That means, their record is clear when they stand before our heavenly Judge. The punishment for their sins is not ignored. The punishment was taken on voluntarily by Jesus.

However, that doesn't mean that the sinner avoids earthly consequences of those sins. Suppose a murderer repents of his sin while sitting in a prison cell? God can forgive him but he will still have to fulfill his sentence in prison.

In our church, the policy (which I agree with) for confessed adulterers is that they can be accepted into the congregation. However, they can never hold positions of leadership such as pastor or deacon.

Obviously, the POTUS is not a position of spiritual leadership. However, I do believe that the candidate for that position must be held to a high standard of conduct. It may well be that Gingrich has truly repented and changed his ways. I'm not yet convinced of that. There may be a day when I am. But as of right now, and as of yesterday when I voted for someone else, that wasn't the case.

I've spoken with other SC voters. Those who voted for Gingrich told me that it was because he was in the best position to defeat Obama.

For me, that wasn't a good enough reason to vote for him.

**saywhatkid** · 01-22-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Good job bringing up Newt's affair which is what ... 15 years old now

Talk about re-hashing a dead horse over and over again then blaming it on someone else when they decide to counter it

Smoooth ... real smooth.

Are you stating you wish someone had shot Bush? (I can do that too)

How dare I bring up Gingrich...in a thread about Gingrich! My bad. Back to Obama! Or Clinton! Or Edwards!

And no, I would not want anyone shot, not even hard core Conservative sheep. From the deep south. Or hard core Liberals. From California. That is where we differ. I respect both sides. You, not so much.

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

How dare I bring up Gingrich...in a thread about Gingrich! My bad. Back to Obama! Or Clinton! Or Edwards!

And no, I would not want anyone shot, not even hard core Conservative sheep. From the deep south. Or hard core Liberals. From California. That is where we differ. I respect both sides. You, not so much.

At least no one has brought up George Washington and Sally Fairfax... yet...

**Banjo** · 01-22-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

She is getting a paycheck from a municipality from Chicago while living in a foreign country.

How did they find out about that part?

DeafCaroline · 01-22-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Naturally, he would be seeking for a re-election. It's expected.

This is the first time I've heard of her being paid by the government. Do you have any evidence to back up what you are saying here? Do you realize that people can't really just walk in a bank and get proof of a person's banking history?

Because it was National Enquirer.

It matters.

Cain's campaign came to a halt due to all of the allegations being made against him. I don't know if any of these allegations are true, but the way his campaign handled them were done rather poorly. That's what really killed his campaign.

Meh.

15 years is not that long. 50 years is.

He was only honest about it because he got busted. He is a true hypocrite and still is.

Now, regarding Vera Baker, remember it was National Enquirer who broke the story. Then they quickly revised it and it became a rather short story with vague details. After that, what happened? Not much. I also just checked the National Enquirer, the story seems to have disappeared for good. Guess they didn't have much of a leg to stand on in the first place.

Hmm....National Enquirer knew about anti-Obama operatives wiling to pay over a million to see the hotel tape that purportedly proved Obama was having an affair with Vera. Don't you think if there's actual proof, the Republicans would make sure the public knew all about it?

Their story is vague because they don't know more than what they've reported and they deliberately led the viewers to think the tape shows an actual affair when in fact, apparently all it shows is them entering and exiting the hotel during the campaign. Big shocker, you campaign, you stay in hotels with your staff. And they also refuse to admit to the date of the the hotel tape.

So...methinks as is typical of the Enquirer is they say things like "hotel tape that could quite potentially blow the top of this secret sex scandal!!!!!" when the truth is "there is supposedly a hotel tape showing Obama and Vera entering and exiting the hotel together during the presidential campaign.

It's the National Enquirer...that alone should say enough.

**Jiro** · 01-22-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

He has divided this nation in a way I have never experienced or seen before.

better than Bush who had divided this world and made us a hot target for international terrorists.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The following is my personal opinion only.

Gingrich's adultery, which happened more than once, shows a pattern of infidelity, not just a one-time "slip." Also, there are some questions about his financial dealings that haven't been cleared up.

As a Christian, I totally believe that God can (and does) forgive all sinners who repent of their sins and turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness and redemption. That means, their record is clear when they stand before our heavenly Judge. The punishment for their sins is not ignored. The punishment was taken on voluntarily by Jesus.

However, that doesn't mean that the sinner avoids earthly consequences of those sins. Suppose a murderer repents of his sin while sitting in a prison cell? God can forgive him but he will still have to fulfill his sentence in prison.

In our church, the policy (which I agree with) for confessed adulterers is that they can be accepted into the congregation. However, they can never hold positions of leadership such as pastor or deacon.

Obviously, the POTUS is not a position of spiritual leadership. However, I do believe that the candidate for that position must be held to a high standard of conduct. It may well be that Gingrich has truly repented and changed his ways. I'm not yet convinced of that. There may be a day when I am. But as of right now, and as of yesterday when I voted for someone else, that wasn't the case.

I've spoken with other SC voters. Those who voted for Gingrich told me that it was because he was in the best position to defeat Obama.

For me, that wasn't a good enough reason to vote for him.

I respect your opinion but I do not hold the same exact spiritual views that you hold on adultery and quite even possibly, divorce. I believe that people can be tricked into marriages, and they can be tricked out of them. I also believe that no one should have to endure years of an abusive relationship just so they can be "right with God".

I also believe that there is no sin greater than another, except harboring hatred. I also believe that I shouldn't be passing judgement on another's sin, since that is God's responsibility. I also believe that if I throw a rock in the air, it will hit someone guilty, for everyone sins.

But yes, I do respect your views and I even used to share some of them.

Edit to add: I am not saying that you are doing this, I am just stating what I have come to understand - I also wanted to mention that I do not take the subject of "redemption" lightly. While others may continue to mock Newt Gingrich for his past mistakes, he did confess to them a long time ago.

**Jiro** · 01-22-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I respect your opinion but I do not hold the same exact spiritual views that you hold on adultery and quite even possibly, divorce. I believe that people can be tricked into marriages, and they can be tricked out of them. I also believe that no one should have to endure years of an abusive relationship just so they can be "right with God".

I also believe that there is no sin greater than another, except harboring hatred. I also believe that I shouldn't be passing judgement on another's sin, since that is God's responsibility. I also believe that if I throw a rock in the air, it will hit someone guilty, for everyone sins.

But yes, I do respect your views and I even used to share some of them.

Edit to add: I am not saying that you are doing this, I am just stating what I have come to understand - I also wanted to mention that I do not take the subject of "redemption" lightly.

my analysis of your post says that you are still confused and unresolved. that's why most of your posts are not coherent. It's full of contradictions and confusing bias. in Reba's case, she had guidance from mentors over years. Sure we don't always see it side by side but at least her posts are sound and her position is consistent on many issues. Yours are not.

before you reply back with some foolish comments, think carefully and be honest with yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

While others may continue to mock Newt Gingrich for his past mistakes, he did confess to them a long time ago.

Did he confess BEFORE people found out?

**Reba** · 01-22-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I respect your opinion but I do not hold the same exact spiritual views that you hold on adultery and quite even possibly, divorce. I believe that people can be tricked into marriages, and they can be tricked out of them. I also believe that no one should have to endure years of an abusive relationship just so they can be "right with God".

Just to be clear, I never said that anyone should endure an abusive relationship.

Also, I don't believe Gingrich was tricked into anything. He's not some low-esteem simpleton.

Quote:

I also believe that there is no sin greater than another, except harboring hatred. I also believe that I shouldn't be passing judgement on another's sin, since that is God's responsibility. I also believe that if I throw a rock in the air, it will hit someone guilty, for everyone sins.

It's not that a sin is "greater" but each sin does carry different levels of consequences. Infidelity is particularly painful to God because it goes against the type that marriage represents in the relationship between Christ and the Church.

I don't believe that acknowledging that there are natural consequences of sin is a judgment on a person's spiritual condition or position. If someone drives drunk and kills an innocent pedestrian, the victim isn't going to come alive again just because the driver repents. God can forgive him, the family can forgive him, and even society can forgive him. But that victim stays dead. There are consequences to our sins (also known as "baggage"), even when they are forgiven.

When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, many people suffered the consequences. David eventually confessed and repented, and God forgave him. However, Uriah was still dead. Repercussions in the kingdom rippled on. David's reputation as a leader was damaged.

Gingrich can be forgiven and go on with his life. That doesn't mean I have to vote for him. It's not even a matter of voting "against" him or punishing him. I preferred another candidate.

Quote:

But yes, I do respect your views and I even used to.share some of them.

I appreciate that. I just want to be sure that my views are clear.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

better than Bush who had divided this world and made us a hot target for international terrorists.

It would be completely foolish to believe that. Americans have been the Target of terrorist attacks before Bush came in to office. Are you a truther too?

**Jiro** · 01-22-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

It would be completely foolish to believe that. Americans have been the Target of terrorist attacks before Bush came in to office. Are you a truther too?

what's a truther?

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Just to be clear, I never said that anyone should endure an abusive relationship.

Also, I don't believe Gingrich was tricked into anything. He's not some low-esteem simpleton.

It's not that a sin is "greater" but each sin does carry different levels of consequences. Infidelity is particularly painful to God because it goes against the type that marriage represents in the relationship between Christ and the Church.

I don't believe that acknowledging that there are natural consequences of sin is a judgment on a person's spiritual condition or position. If someone drives drunk and kills an innocent pedestrian, the victim isn't going to come alive again just because the driver repents. God can forgive him, the family can forgive him, and even society can forgive him. But that victim stays dead. There are consequences to our sins (also known as "baggage"), even when they are forgiven.

When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, many people suffered the consequences. David eventually confessed and repented, and God forgave him. However, Uriah was still dead. Repercussions in the kingdom rippled on. David's reputation as a leader was damaged.

Gingrich can be forgiven and go on with his life. That doesn't mean I have to vote for him. It's not even a matter of voting "against" him or punishing him. I preferred another candidate.

I appreciate that. I just want to be sure that my views are clear.

I was not implying that Gingrich was a simpleton, although it is highly questionable as to whether or not he was "tricked" into his first marriage. It is obvious to everyone that he was completely at fault for the dissolution of his second marriage. Whether or not he felt manipulated holds no bearing after 18 years. He should have filed for a divorce when he knew his marriage was over.

But, this was 15 years ago. Some couples recover from infidelity (such as the Clintons), and most do not.

I do understand that Jesus meant for marriage to be symbolic of the church and God. I understand what he meant by trying to serve and please two masters. I think Gingrich does too. But, I don't know for sure - only he knows that.

Cowpuppy · 01-22-2012, 09:48 PM

I agree with Reba. It's ok to forgive but that's not what we want in a leader. Pattern of infidelity and self-centeredness. Cheating is a form of lying. Liars don't change late in life. The guys just an egomaniac. Only wants to feed his ego.
my point earlier is (white) southerners will vote for a southerner without reason. a form of racism against the north and west. get over it. move on and use your brain.
the guys a lying sack of poopie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Just to be clear, I never said that anyone should endure an abusive relationship.

Also, I don't believe Gingrich was tricked into anything. He's not some low-esteem simpleton.

It's not that a sin is "greater" but each sin does carry different levels of consequences. Infidelity is particularly painful to God because it goes against the type that marriage represents in the relationship between Christ and the Church.

I don't believe that acknowledging that there are natural consequences of sin is a judgment on a person's spiritual condition or position. If someone drives drunk and kills an innocent pedestrian, the victim isn't going to come alive again just because the driver repents. God can forgive him, the family can forgive him, and even society can forgive him. But that victim stays dead. There are consequences to our sins (also known as "baggage"), even when they are forgiven.

When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, many people suffered the consequences. David eventually confessed and repented, and God forgave him. However, Uriah was still dead. Repercussions in the kingdom rippled on. David's reputation as a leader was damaged.

Gingrich can be forgiven and go on with his life. That doesn't mean I have to vote for him. It's not even a matter of voting "against" him or punishing him. I preferred another candidate.

I appreciate that. I just want to be sure that my views are clear.

**TWA** · 01-22-2012, 11:13 PM

Wow, some people can rationalize anything. Incredible.

Steinhauer · 01-22-2012, 11:43 PM

try rationalizing this:

Des Moines man charged with attempting to defraud Iowa Sec. of State | Eastern Iowa News Now

How many other staffers are attempting to smear Republican candidates?

**Jiro** · 01-22-2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

try rationalizing this:

Des Moines man charged with attempting to defraud Iowa Sec. of State | Eastern Iowa News Now

How many other staffers are attempting to smear Republican candidates?

this is related to Gingrich.... how?

and please do help me rationalize your inability to stay on topic. why do you keep hijacking it?

Steinhauer · 01-23-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

this is related to Gingrich.... how?

and please do help me rationalize your inability to stay on topic. why do you keep hijacking it?

Sure, I'll help you to rationalize this Jiro. Didn't you start this thread as a "smear campaign" against Newt Gingrich?

It certainly appears that way from your OP. Since the linked article I just gave indicates that Obama staffers are committing acts of FRAUD to discredit Republicans - and since Newt Gingrich is a Republican, I would think it would be a pertinent tidbit of information.

You are a smart guy, you can figure it out.

Smear campaigns are great strategies aren't they? It distracts everyone from the real issues.

And Zachary Edwards isn't just any old chump - he is media director for 5 different states and is a member of Obama's re-election campaign.

Just pointing out you shouldn't believe everything you read - especially when a criminal action and intentional fraud took place to mislead people.

01-22-2012, 12:31 PM	#214 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	Meh. Gingrich is a slimeball. __________________ .

01-22-2012, 01:23 PM	#224 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,218	The following is my personal opinion only. Gingrich's adultery, which happened more than once, shows a pattern of infidelity, not just a one-time "slip." Also, there are some questions about his financial dealings that haven't been cleared up. As a Christian, I totally believe that God can (and does) forgive all sinners who repent of their sins and turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness and redemption. That means, their record is clear when they stand before our heavenly Judge. The punishment for their sins is not ignored. The punishment was taken on voluntarily by Jesus. However, that doesn't mean that the sinner avoids earthly consequences of those sins. Suppose a murderer repents of his sin while sitting in a prison cell? God can forgive him but he will still have to fulfill his sentence in prison. In our church, the policy (which I agree with) for confessed adulterers is that they can be accepted into the congregation. However, they can never hold positions of leadership such as pastor or deacon. Obviously, the POTUS is not a position of spiritual leadership. However, I do believe that the candidate for that position must be held to a high standard of conduct. It may well be that Gingrich has truly repented and changed his ways. I'm not yet convinced of that. There may be a day when I am. But as of right now, and as of yesterday when I voted for someone else, that wasn't the case. I've spoken with other SC voters. Those who voted for Gingrich told me that it was because he was in the best position to defeat Obama. For me, that wasn't a good enough reason to vote for him. saywhatkid and DeafBadger like this.

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01-22-2012, 01:11 PM	#222 (permalink)
Banjo Expelled Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11,650	National Enquirer got lucky with John Edwards. But again, John Edwards didn't have a chance of winning. He never did. He's not a well-liked person, and I don't know why he was even running for the job in the first place. But again, what do you expect from idiots? They'll do whatever they can do to win.

01-22-2012, 11:13 PM	#237 (permalink)
TWA Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,374	Wow, some people can rationalize anything. Incredible.

01-22-2012, 11:43 PM	#238 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	try rationalizing this: Des Moines man charged with attempting to defraud Iowa Sec. of State \| Eastern Iowa News Now How many other staffers are attempting to smear Republican candidates?