What health care reform means for your business - Page 5

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

No. But if they get amnesty, then they can begin the citizenship process. After they become citizens, then they can vote.

yes. and this process takes quite a while for them to legally vote.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

3 days since Obama signed it..... *looking around*

stocks went up. health reform highlights' slowly sinking into general public's head that it isn't what they thought it'd be.

The stock bump was inevitable. I see a fairly stable market through February 2011, barring a major event. It would be interesting to see what amnesty for illegal immigrants would do to the markets. I don't expect the HC bill to have much effect on the market until late 2011 unless the SC rules the bill unconstitutional.

**Reba** · 03-24-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

lol no way. if they do - they're required to show proof of citizenship and residency.... which they have none. The illegals avoid all kinds of public events because that's how they can get caught and deported.

Just to clarify. Voters aren't required to show proof of citizenship at the polls.

They might be required to show that proof when they register to vote.

We are sometimes required to show identification at the polls (such as a driver's license) but only to verify that we are the same person as shown on our voter registration card.

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Do you have something more current? That was almost one year ago.

no because apparently the priority went to health care reform. Now that it's done. The best I can find is this link

Important: The information below is part of the comprehensive immigration reform plan proposed by President Barack Obama. This legislation has not been approved yet.

Quote:

THE PROPOSED IMMIGRATION REFORM AND AMNESTY WILL INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:

* Secure our borders:
Obama and Biden want to preserve the integrity of our borders. They support additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.

* Improve our Immigration System:
Obama and Biden believe we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.

* Bring people out of the shadows:
Obama and Biden support a system that requires undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

# Create Secure Borders
Obama and Biden want to preserve the integrity of our borders. He supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.

# Improve Our Immigration System
Obama and Biden believe we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.

# Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally
Obama and Biden will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

# Bring People Out of the Shadows
Obama and Biden support a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

# Work with Mexico
Obama and Biden believe we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.

Obama's statement on this issue

Quote:

President Barack Obama
"We are not going to ship back 12 million people, we're not going to do it as a practical matter. We would have to take all our law enforcement that we have available and we would have to use it and put people on buses, and rip families apart, and that's not who we are, that's not what America is about. So what I've proposed... is you say we're going to bring these folks out of the shadows. We're going to make them pay a fine, they are going to have to learn English, they are going to have to go to the back of the line...but they will have a pathway to citizenship over the course of 10 years."

**Reba** · 03-24-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I would assume they could after given amnesty

They would still have to complete the citizenship process.

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Just to clarify. Voters aren't required to show proof of citizenship at the polls.

They might be required to show that proof when they register to vote.

We are sometimes required to show identification at the polls (such as a driver's license) but only to verify that we are the same person as shown on our voter registration card.

yes -

for clarifying my statement. That's precisely what the illegals want to avoid so it's a ridiculous claim that they can vote but I do acknowledge that it is possible for them to vote illegally.

Boult · 03-24-2010, 01:21 PM

Well well, more americans favor than oppose!

Quote:

A new USA Today/Gallup poll has found that more Americans favor than oppose the health care overhaul President Obama signed into law yesterday. Forty-nine percent said it was "a good thing," while 40 percent did not. Half said they are "enthusiastic" or "pleased" with the bill, with 48 percent saying it's a "good first step."

Quote:

President Obama will sign an executive order today "that ensures that existing limits on the federal funding of abortion remain in place under the new health care overhaul law." The event, which "will be attended by Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and 12 of his anti-abortion Democratic House colleagues," will be closed to the media.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

Well well, more americans favor than oppose!

There is a thread dedicated to this already..

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

The stock bump was inevitable. I see a fairly stable market through February 2011, barring a major event. It would be interesting to see what amnesty for illegal immigrants would do to the markets. I don't expect the HC bill to have much effect on the market until late 2011 unless the SC rules the bill unconstitutional.

indeed. It would be interesting but I say "it would be interesting" because I don't know the laws/requirement/limitation/exemption for those with amnesty status. That is something I have to research on.

My initial research showed that GWB had worked very hard to pass the Immigration Bill but ultimately failed. Obama's Immigration Bill does share some similarities with Bush's.

Bush's comment on Immigration issue - (source)

Quote:

President Bush today pressed his campaign for a new comprehensive immigration bill, telling an audience of Latino religious leaders that "our economy depends on" foreign workers and calling on Congress to act now before the problem of illegal immigration "grows worse."

Bush's Immigration Bill (source)

Quote:

The bill would have beefed up border security, expanded opportunities for foreigners to take temporary jobs in the USA and made job qualifications a factor in selecting immigrants. It also would have put about 12 million illegal immigrants on a path to citizenship.

At a press conference following the bill's defeat, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said his department will continue raids on employers suspected of hiring illegal immigrants. "You will continue to see heart-wrenching examples of families being pulled apart," he said. "In order to regain credibility with the American people, we're going to have to be tough."

Obama's Immigration Bill (source)

Quote:

Administration officials said that Mr. Obama’s plan would not add new workers to the American work force, but that it would recognize millions of illegal immigrants who have already been working here. Despite the deep recession, there is no evidence of any wholesale exodus of illegal immigrant workers, independent studies of census data show.
.........
In broad outlines, officials said, the Obama administration favors legislation that would bring illegal immigrants into the legal system by recognizing that they violated the law, and imposing fines and other penalties to fit the offense. The legislation would seek to prevent future illegal immigration by strengthening border enforcement and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, while creating a national system for verifying the legal immigration status of new workers.

Quote:

Opponents of a legalization effort said that if the Obama administration maintained the enforcement pressure initiated by Mr. Bush, the recession would force many illegal immigrants to return home. Dan Stein, the president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, said it would be “politically disastrous” for Mr. Obama to begin an immigration initiative at this time.

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 01:31 PM

from Bush Era -

Immigration Amnesty

Quote:

The information below was part of the proposed comprehensive immigration reform bill that was previously debated in the United States senate. This legislation has not been approved. The measure, the biggest rewrite of U.S. immigration law since 1986, would offer 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants a path to citizenship while tightening the border with Mexico and creating a guest-worker program to help employers fill low-paying jobs.

Subscribe to the free United States Immigration Newsletter for the latest immigration news, including detailed information regarding the proposed Immigration Amnesty.

The proposed Immigration Reform and Amnesty included the following:

Undocumented Workers Currently in the United States:

* Undocumented workers could come forward immediately and receive probationary legal status.
* The Bill creates a four-year, renewable Z visa for those unlawfully residing within the U.S. before January 1, 2007.
* Undocumented immigrants may adjust status to lawful permanent residence once they pay $5,000 in fees and fines and their head of household returns to their home country.
* People under age 30 who were brought to the U.S. as minors could receive their green cards after three years, rather than eight.
* Undocumented farm workers who can demonstrate they have worked 150 hours or three years in agriculture can apply for green cards.
* No green cards for Z visa holders can be processed until “triggers” for border security and workplace enforcement have been met, which is estimated to take 18 months.
* Processing of green cards for holders of Z-visas would begin after clearing an existing backlog, which is expected to take 8 to 13 years.

Border Security:

* Hire 18,000 new border patrol agents.
* Erect 200 miles of vehicle barriers and 370 miles of fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border.
* Erect 70 ground-based radar and camera towers along the southern border.
* Deploy four unmanned aerial vehicles and supporting systems.
* End the program in which illegal immigrants are released upon apprehension (commonly know as catch and release).
* Provide structures for detaining up to 27,500 aliens per day on an annual basis.
* Employ secure and effective identification tools to prevent unauthorized work.

Employment Verification:

* Require employers to electronically verify new employees to prove identity and work eligibility.
* Increase penalties for unlawful hiring, employment, and record keeping violations.

Guest Worker Program (requires border security measures to be in place first):

* Create a new temporary guest worker program with two-year “Y visas,” initially capped at 400,000 per year with annual adjustments based on market fluctuations.
* Workers could renew the Y visa up to three times, but would be required to return home for a year in between each time. Those bringing dependents could obtain only one, nonrenewable, two-year visa.
* Families could accompany guest workers only if they could show proof of medical insurance and demonstrate that their wages were 150 percent above the poverty level.

Permanent Residence (Green Card) through the Point System:

* 380,000 visas a year would be awarded based on a point system, with about 50 percent based on employment criteria, 25 percent based on education, 15 percent on English proficiency, and 10 percent on family connections.

Other Changes to the Immigration System:

* Spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens and permanent residents would be eligible for green cards based purely on their family connections, but other relatives such as adult children and siblings would not.
* New limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country.
* Visas for parents of U.S. citizens would be capped annually at 40,000 and those for spouses and children at 87,000.

The End Result

Quote:

Amnesty Bill Update
On June 29, 2007 the United States Senate killed the proposed comprehensive immigration legislation, ending chances for President George W. Bush to pass his immigration reform plan--a centerpiece of the president's domestic agenda. Immigration reform supporters garnered just 46 of the 60 votes needed to conclude debate and proceed to final passage. Sixty senators, including 37 of Bush's fellow Republicans, voted against it. Most senators said they had no plans to try to overhaul immigration law before the 2008 presidential election, so it is unlikely that any major immigration bill will become law until 2009. The biggest obstacle was to convince conservatives that the path to citizenship for illegal aliens is not Amnesty. The bill's bitter end has a deeper meaning, as it demonstrated that conservative Americans’ vision for US immigration reform should not include any type of amnesty or legalization for undocumented workers.

"This vote effectively kills comprehensive immigration legislation in the 110th Congress" - said Democratic Representative Zoe Lofgren, head of a House Judiciary subcommittee on immigration.

The measure, the biggest rewrite of U.S. immigration law since 1986, would offer 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants a path to citizenship while tightening the border with Mexico and creating a guest-worker program to help employers fill low-paying jobs.

President Bush, who had lobbied Republican senators to support the legislation, acknowledged defeat, stating, "Congress's failure to act on it is a disappointment." The Bush administration is still interested in finding the solution to the problem of illegal immigration, said Michael Chertoff, Bush's homeland security secretary who helped draft the legislation.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

indeed. It would be interesting but I say "it would be interesting" because I don't know the laws/requirement/limitation/exemption for those with amnesty status. That is something I have to research on.

My initial research showed that GWB had worked very hard to pass the Immigration Bill but ultimately failed. Obama's Immigration Bill does share some similarities with Bush's.

Bush's comment on Immigration issue - (source)

Bush's Immigration Bill (source)

Obama's Immigration Bill (source)

I say interesting because the market could go either way. Assuming amnesty comes with a right to work. The market could be happy that less $ will leave the country....or could be burdened by the extra cost of "legal employees" That's the simple version.

A big mistake people make is assuming that illegal immigrants want to be citizens. I know many illegals. Many come here for the HIGH pay. I actually admire the ambition of the II's I know. Their goal is to come here...work as much as possible and go back to Mexico to live well. People often cite the living conditions of illegals. That is actually part of the plan for the II's I know. Live cheap and save Don't waste money here,save it for where it will go farther.. Many US citizens could learn a thing or two by following their example.

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I say interesting because the market could go either way. Assuming amnesty comes with a right to work. The market could be happy that less $ will leave the country....or could be burdened by the extra cost of "legal employees" That's the simple version.

I think Obama's Immigration bill was very clear about that issue. It said that the bill will ONLY grant them a legal status in USA especially to undocumented workers CURRENTLY working. It's not to issue them a work visa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

A big mistake people make is assuming that illegal immigrants want to be citizens. I know many illegals. Many come here for the HIGH pay. I actually admire the ambition of the II's I know. Their goal is to come here...work as much as possible and go back to Mexico to live well. People often cite the living conditions of illegals. That is actually part of the plan for the II's I know. Live cheap and save Don't waste money here,save it for where it will go farther.. Many US citizens could learn a thing or two by following their example.

I don't think it's about illegals wanting to become citizens. Nobody cares. It's just that the most common issue and also the biggest reason why Immigration Bill is extraordinary difficult to pass is because of "Cheap Labor" fear. They do not want the them to take the jobs in America especially when unemployment rate is rising.

PowerON · 03-24-2010, 02:14 PM

Due to passage of the "health care reform bill" by congress and inflation, our fees will increase by 20%

Effective immediately

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs466...._3639274_n.jpg

yizuman · 03-24-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

Due to passage of the "health care reform bill" by congress and inflation, our fees will increase by 20%

Effective immediately

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs466...._3639274_n.jpg

Yep, everything is going up, watch your electric/gas bills, water bill, trash/sewer bills, phone bills and watch the prices on food going up and gas prices for your SUV going up as well.

Yiz

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I think Obama's Immigration bill was very clear about that issue. It said that the bill will ONLY grant them a legal status in USA especially to undocumented workers CURRENTLY working. It's not to issue them a work visa.

I don't think it's about illegals wanting to become citizens. Nobody cares. It's just that the most common issue and also the biggest reason why Immigration Bill is extraordinary difficult to pass is because of "Cheap Labor" fear. They do not want the them to take the jobs in America especially when unemployment rate is rising.

Exactly.....But that is why I say the market could go either way. Hard to predict this one.

My second part was just expanding. I think alot of people believe they come here for a better life here. But for many it is for a better future once they return to Mexico. And again I admire their ambition. It's the exact opposite of the gimme gimme gimme folks that are here. Illegals pick themselves up and try to make things happen for themselves.

Another little tidbit. Most illegal immigrants pay between $1500 and 2,000 to cross into the country. Simply sneaking accross is rare. The money goes to ranchers on the border. So coming here is an investment. Sometimes employers pay those fees.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Yep, everything is going up, watch your electric/gas bills, water bill, trash/sewer bills, phone bills and watch the prices on food going up and gas prices for your SUV going up as well.

Yiz

My electric bills were triple the normal rate the last 4 months......Colder than normal temps played a part. Can't figure out the rest.....they are" looking into it"

Jan '07 $386 '08 $412 '09 $397 '10 $1,185

Kinda steep

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Exactly.....But that is why I say the market could go either way. Hard to predict this one.

My second part was just expanding. I think alot of people believe they come here for a better life here. But for many it is for a better future once they return to Mexico. And again I admire their ambition. It's the exact opposite of the gimme gimme gimme folks that are here. Illegals pick themselves up and try to make things happen for themselves.

and my main beef with people getting all upset about illegals taking the jobs - gee... the illegals are doing the jobs that most Americans do not want at all!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Another little tidbit. Most illegal immigrants pay between $1500 and 2,000 to cross into the country. Simply sneaking accross is rare. The money goes to ranchers on the border. So coming here is an investment. Sometimes employers pay those fees.

yup. the Coyote. and the Shrimp Boat. they had to hide in such deplorable condition for a long period of time.

Sneaking across... is signing your own death warrant. Most died to dehydration and heat exhaustion since the area in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California is mostly desert and mountain. That's why this Arizona guy (No More Deaths) put some water bottles around the area. What he did was noble but... oh well.....

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

My electric bills were triple the normal rate the last 4 months......Colder than normal temps played a part. Can't figure out the rest.....they are" looking into it"

Jan '07 $386 '08 $412 '09 $397 '10 $1,185

Kinda steep

whoa.....

I don't think we've ever paid our electric bill in 4-figures in our entire life...

**Reba** · 03-24-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

whoa.....

I don't think we've ever paid our electric bill in 4-figures in our entire life...

Same here. That is

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

whoa.....

I don't think we've ever paid our electric bill in 4-figures in our entire life...

Well they say they are testing a "smart meter".....

It's not just me though it's the whole area so something is messed up. I will look up the bill in a bit and give you the Kwh break down

Edit
I just found the problem......Our electric company made some changes in January. For some reason the computer changed my rate from residential to commercial. Weird. Sending them an email now......Kwh stayed close to the same.....but the average charge went from 12.9 to 36.7.

**Banjo** · 03-24-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Well they say they are testing a "smart meter".....

unno: It's not just me though it's the whole area so something is messed up. I will look up the bill in a bit and give you the Kwh break down

We have that here. The Smart Metre that is.

DGirl101 · 03-24-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

Well well, more americans favor than oppose!

Jillio has stated before and again and again that polls are not reliable.

They are inaccurate. It targets a specific group, NOT everyone will take a poll.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGirl101

Jillio has stated before and again and again that polls are not reliable.

They are inaccurate. It targets a specific group, NOT everyone will take a poll.

As I said in another thread.....It has to do with how this question is asked. Is passing this HC bill good for the country? I would have answered yes to that question......Although for totally different reasons than others

**Reba** · 03-24-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Well they say they are testing a "smart meter".....

It's not just me though it's the whole area so something is messed up. I will look up the bill in a bit and give you the Kwh break down

Edit
I just found the problem......Our electric company made some changes in January. For some reason the computer changed my rate from residential to commercial. Weird. Sending them an email now......Kwh stayed close to the same.....but the average charge went from 12.9 to 36.7.

I hope they revise down your bill.

Ours was $161. We get it averaged every year so that the monthly bill never "surprises" us.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I hope they revise down your bill.

Ours was $161. We get it averaged every year so that the monthly bill never "surprises" us.

They have that here too. They charge $5 a month to do it which is a ripoff so I never have done it. I may now. My neighbors acct says commercial too. You have to go online to check the account details.......

I have probably prepaid my electric bill for the year once they make the correction....Lol

posts from hell · 03-24-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

My electric bills were triple the normal rate the last 4 months......Colder than normal temps played a part. Can't figure out the rest.....they are" looking into it"

Jan '07 $386 '08 $412 '09 $397 '10 $1,185

Kinda steep

Nice... Just nice...

That $1185 can pay for the place I live in, all of our utilities.. And have some cash left over to spare.

Awesome

They'll fix it, im sure.

**TXgolfer** · 03-24-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Nice... Just nice...

That $1185 can pay for the place I live in, all of our utilities.. And have some cash left over to spare.

Awesome

They'll fix it, im sure.

I am sure they will. I just don't know why they didn't catch it themselves.

At least it wasn't this bad (same company)

TXU Apologizes For $103,695 Home Electric Bill - cbs11tv.com

Area wide problem

Have You had problems with your TXU electricity bill being extremely higher in the last two months? - Yahoo! Answers

**Reba** · 03-24-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

They have that here too. They charge $5 a month to do it which is a ripoff so I never have done it. I may now. My neighbors acct says commercial too. You have to go online to check the account details.......

I have probably prepaid my electric bill for the year once they make the correction....Lol

Wow! They don't charge us for that service.

posts from hell · 03-24-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Wow! They don't charge us for that service.

same here ... wth

**Jiro** · 03-24-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGirl101

Jillio has stated before and again and again that polls are not reliable.

They are inaccurate. It targets a specific group, NOT everyone will take a poll.

Gallup is a very reputable firm. Its polling methodology is pretty good. Its competitor is Rasmussen. The only difference is that Gallup is more of liberal side while Rasmussen is more of conservative side but both are good.

The People's Perspective as Healthcare Reform Passes the House

Quote:

We’ll know more about the short-term reaction to the historic House passage of healthcare reform on Tuesday. That’s when we will have the results of a new Monday night Gallup poll gauging attitudes a day after passage.
Meanwhile: Do we have a good fix on where the public stood on healthcare reform just as it was passed by the House Sunday night?

I’ve been studying a series of polls conducted on this issue over the last two weeks. One conclusion: A good deal of variance in the public’s response across surveys.

Our most recent Gallup poll found a three percentage point tilt against Congress passing the legislation. Two other recent polls (Pew and Fox News/Opinion Dynamics) showed the healthcare legislation opposed by 10-point margins or higher. The Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll asked two separate questions about the legislation. One showed a one-point favor over oppose margin. The other showed an eight-point opposition margin. A new poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation finds a four-point favor over oppose margin.

We note differences across surveys in how the questions were asked. Some survey questions included explicit references to Democrats and to the president. Others do not. Some asked a basic favor or oppose question about the plan. Others asked more explicitly about Congress voting for or against the plan. The aforementioned Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll asked a favor or oppose question and a more complex “want the plan to pass” question. The latter got the one-point affirmative margin. The former received the eight-point opposition margin. Each question in each poll was placed in a different spot in different poll contexts. One poll used registered voters. The rest used national adults.

(to read more - click on the link above)

03-24-2010, 02:14 PM	#133 (permalink)
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