UN Official Wants to Prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld for Torture - Page 6

Hear Again · 02-01-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Some conservatives and some liberals are rude and judgmental, yes. But attitude isn't a result of political viewpoint; it's an individual trait or fault.

htat may be true, but most conservative/s i'bve met have a holier than thouh attitude.

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Fistly, I don't think you will find a single post where I used the word "all".

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - UN Official Wants to Prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld for Torture
"Why is it that all conservatives are so angry and nasty? "

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

htat may be true, but most conservative/s i'bve met have a holier than thouh attitude.

You haven't met the same ones that I have.

Hear Again · 02-01-2009, 03:53 PM

reba,

jow do you quote a single post lik e tht?

Hear Again · 02-01-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

You haven't met the same ones that I have.

apparently not.

by rhe wat, i live in a conservatie neigihorhood and 95% of my neighvors have a negatyive atitude against liberals. i hear it all the time abou how liberrals re bleeinding herts who always want to raise taxes.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-01-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I understand that sometimes war is necessary to protect this country but torturing prisoners...I agree if they are terrorists and we want to get info from them but Banjo brought up a good point..what if they were innocent? I thought it was illegal to torture prisoners here in America so why is the law being broken over there?

Almost all innocent people were being falsely arrested, detained for years in torture camp without any charge, tried or convincted of being a terrorist.

This is criminal and illegal.

jillio · 02-01-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - UN Official Wants to Prosecute Bush, Rumsfeld for Torture
"Why is it that all conservatives are so angry and nasty? "

Busted. Let me clarify. Why is it that all conservatives I have come in contact with so angry and nasty? There appears to be a correlation.

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

... Secondly, neither did I say that power positions attract imperfect people. Those would be your words. I prefer not to use such terms. They imply superiority.

You're right, you didn't use that phrase. I didn't have the post in front of me when I typed that. Here's the correction:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow
"Power corrupts."

Unfortunately, it would seem that way. And positions of power also seem to attract those that are least likely able to handle that power in a responsible manner.

jillio · 02-01-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

You're right, you didn't use that phrase. I didn't have the post in front of me when I typed that. Here's the correction:

Yep, that's what I said. I was referring to personality traits, not imperfections.

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Busted. Let me clarify. Why is it that all conservatives I have come in contact with so angry and nasty? There appears to be a correlation.

It still seems like a broad statement, and I know that it doesn't fit all conservative ADers that you've exchanged posts with.

"Why is it that all conservatives I have come in contact with so angry and nasty?"

I'm sorry if I've come across as angry and nasty because I don't mean to be that way to my fellow AD posters.

jillio · 02-01-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It still seems like a broad statement, and I know that it doesn't fit all conservative ADers that you've exchanged posts with.

"Why is it that all conservatives I have come in contact with so angry and nasty?"

I'm sorry if I've come across as angry and nasty because I don't mean to be that way to my fellow AD posters.

It depends on the nature of the encounter, I suppose.

No need for apologies.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

that's why they were confined at Gitmo Camp until their identities and roles can be established. They are immediately released if found innocent/harmless. If their roles have been linked to terrorism, then that's when they get interrogated.

Is 3 to 7 years in torture camp an immediately released the innocents? They should focus the proof within FEW days to weeks instead of send them to torture camp for YEARS...

Again, this is criminal and illegal.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-01-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

So was the waterboarding technique used on them before their identities and roles were established? If this torture had been done on innocent people, that is not gonna help with the peacekeeping process...

Yes, that´s right but it´s not just waterboarding but BEAT them up, electric shock, let dogs bite them, cigarette burns..... I learn from ex-gitmo´s stories...

Under torture, some of them give up to say "yes" to save their pains. They don´t care anymore but want to save their pains...

I found one example of many links...

freedetainees.org » transcript of interview with ex-Guantanamo Bay detainee Mamdouh Habib (2005)

That´s why torture doesn´t solve anything but force them to say lie to save their pains for YEARS... I read German-Turkish Murat´s book saying that they forced him to say YES but he said NO, more and more torture until they MUST say yes.

Torture to get information...?

They only doing for the fun.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-01-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Some interesting pictures of GITMO:

Scenes from Guantánamo Bay - The Big Picture - Boston.com

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-01-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Afterall--do you believe in everything the government tells you?

I don´t.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-01-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macian

well its pretty easy to find out if it's false banjo, go to where they said, if the victim isn't there then they were lying, I know what you mean but it doesn't answer this particular question.

I admit, I would, if it was like what Jiro said, he/she refused to give up any information, I'd certainly torture them, to death even if they didnt reveal their whereabouts, death wouldn't help, but then you have the satisfaction knowing they wll not sit smugly in a warm prison being paid for by us, and eventaully released.
if someone was as sick as the suggestion, they deserve everythign they get.

Have you visit London Dungeons museum for torture and horror history near London Bridge, London before? It shows itself that the torture doesn´t work... it lead some innocents to give up to tell "lie" to save their pains...

**Jiro** · 02-01-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Almost all innocent people were being falsely arrested, detained for years in torture camp without any charge, tried or convincted of being a terrorist.

This is criminal and illegal.

proof please?

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Macian · 02-01-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Have you visit London Dungeons museum for torture and horror history near London Bridge, London before? It shows itself that the torture doesn´t work... it lead some innocents to give up to tell "lie" to save their pains...

liebling, i wasn't assuming it would work, rather it didnt, and if so, I stand by my post, if they are that sick to kill and torture, they dont deserve a place in the society they are condeming, so why should we pay for them to be kept in it, its nothing but a waste of taxpayers money.

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Is 3 to 7 years in torture camp....

GITMO is not a "torture camp."

Hear Again · 02-01-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

i ws confusd by thatas well.

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

reba,

jow do you quote a single post lik e tht?

There is a post # in the upper right corner of each post. If you click on that number, it opens that post in another window or tab. Then, you can copy the url for that post from the address bar. Then, you can paste that url into your post.

Hear Again · 02-01-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There is a post # in the upper right corner of each post. If you click on that number, it opens that post in another window or tab. Then, you can copy the url for that post from the address bar. Then, you can paste that url into your post.

got it. thank you, for the explantion, reba. smile./

**Reba** · 02-01-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

got it. thank you, for the explantion, reba. smile./

You're welcome.

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-02-2009, 09:13 AM

Former Gitmo guard speaks of inmate 'torture'

Posted Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:43pm AEDT

The US Department of Defence says its policy is to treat detainees humanely. (REUTERS: Brennan Linsley)

A former guard at Guantanamo Bay has spoken about the brutality to inmates he witnessed while working at the US detention centre.

It is seven years this weekend since the camp was opened by the United States to hold indefinitely those it says it considered its enemies in "the war on terror."

The US Department of Defence says its policy is to treat detainees humanely.

But Chris Arendt has told the BBC some of his fellow guards were so violent as to be psychotic.

He says what he saw there amounted to torture.

"I saw people storm into the cell and beat that detainee, and then zip-tie the detainee and pull them out. I saw that done excessively," he said.

"I saw people kicking detainees in the face. It's torture, it's a means of extracting information that I didn't even believe these people probably had."

'Force-feeding'

Meanwhile, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has written a letter to US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates protesting the "inhumane and unlawful practice" of force-feeding hunger strikers at the prison.

"I am writing to bring your attention to the cruel, inhuman, degrading and unlawful treatment of the thirty hunger striking detainees currently held at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility," wrote ACLU Human Rights Program director Jamil Dakwar.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said there were 34 hunger strikers at the prison and that 25 of them were being force-fed. The ACLU said it based its estimates on media reports.

"Force-feeding is universally considered to be a form of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment," Mr Dakwar wrote to Mr Gates.

"We respectfully and urgently request that you immediately order the prison camp's commander to cease all force-feeding of detainees who are capable of forming a rational judgment and are aware of the consequences of refusing food."

Mr Dawkar also cited various reports that found that force-feeding at Guantanamo Bay amounted to torture and violated several US Supreme Court holdings and international agreements, including the Convention Against Torture ratified by the United States in 1994.

Lawyers representing Guantanamo detainees said that force-fed prisoners were masked and strapped to a chair twice a day and were force fed protein-rich liquids through tubes inserted in their noses. The lawyers said the practice amounted to torture.

"Debilitating risks of force-feeding include major infections, pneumonia and collapsed lungs," said Mr Dawkar, recalling that five detainees have died in custody at the US naval base prison.

Ms Smith defended detainee care at Guantanamo Bay. "As always, our dedicated medical staff provides superb health care to all detainees, and they closely monitor the health of those detainees who choose to hunger strike," she said.

She argued that the ratio of one medical staff member for every two Guantanamo detainees "far exceeds US prison standards" and shows the prison's commitment "to the safe and humane care and custody of detainees in a legal, ethical and transparent manner."

US President-elect Barack Obama has stated his intention to shut down Guantanamo and Mr Gates ordered aides last month to draw up plans for closing the facility.

Former Gitmo guard speaks of inmate 'torture' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-02-2009, 09:15 AM

Relatives of 2 who died at Gitmo sue Pentagon
Families allege torture and brutal conditions led men to their suicides

updated 6:38 p.m. ET Jan. 29, 2009

Quote:

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Families of two Saudi detainees who committed suicide in June 2006 while being held at Guantanamo Bay have sued the Pentagon, alleging Thursday that torture and brutal conditions at the offshore prison led the men to their deaths.

The New-York based Center for Constitutional Rights said the parents of Yassar Talal al-Zahrani and Salah Ali Abdullah Ahmed al-Salami are seeking unspecified damages for the "illegal detention, torture, inhumane conditions, and ultimate deaths" of their sons.

The final brief in the civil suit was filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.

"It doesn't really matter if this was an intentional death or an accidental death or suicide. The point is that the U.S. government bears responsibility," said Talal al-Zahrani, father of Yassar Talal al-Zahrani and one of the plaintiffs, in a statement from the legal group.

He alleged his son "experienced harm, systematic torture, and then wrongful death" at Guantanamo, where he had been detained for more than four years without charge. He was 21 when he died.

Relatives of a third prisoner, Mani Shaman Turki al-Habardi of Yemen, who was also found dead in his cell on June 10, 2006, declined to join the suit naming former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and 23 other military and medical officials at the remote U.S. base in Cuba.

Lawyer: Close Gitmo
U.S. Navy investigators said the three hanged themselves with bed sheets inside their cells and the military said the suicides prompted a complete review of operations at the prison where the U.S. now holds about 245 men on suspicion of terrorism or links to al-Qaida and the Taliban.

But Pardiss Kebriaei, an attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights, said conditions the prisoners "lived and died under haven't changed significantly" since June 2006.

"Guantanamo needs to be closed before another detainee dies," Kebriaei said.

President Barack Obama has ordered that the prison be closed within a year.

A Pentagon spokesman referred comment about the lawsuit to the U.S. Justice Department. A Justice spokesman, Charles Miller, said Thursday afternoon he could not provide specific comment until later in the day.

Hunger strikes

Attorneys with the Center for Constitutional Rights said al-Salami and al-Zahrani were longtime hunger strikers who underwent forced feedings by being strapped in a restraining chair and fed a liquid nutrition mix through a tube inserted in their noses and down their throats.

They also said the U.S. government never directly notified the men's families of their deaths, and medical officials conducted autopsies on the corpses without obtaining relatives' consent.

At the time of the three suicides, Navy Rear Adm. Harry Harris, then-commander of the prison, described the suicides as "not an act of desperation but an act of asymmetric warfare against us" — an effort to increase condemnation of Guantanamo.

Talal al-Zahrani said the U.S. government showed "a level of arrogance and total disregard for the feelings of others — like this was a traffic accident."

Buttressing his claim of torture, he pointed out that a senior Pentagon official, Susan Crawford, has said she refused to refer charges against another Saudi detainee because she believes he was tortured at Guantanamo. She recently told The Washington Post that the U.S. tortured Mohammed al-Qahtani in 2002.

Families sue Pentagon over 2 Gitmo deaths - Guantanamo- msnbc.com

**Liebling:-)))** · 02-02-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

You might find this interesting:

Lynndie England : A Soldier's Tale - Marie Claire

Preveres... and also what and how they did with dead animals...

lacking of empathy like what I posted link of her interview last year... no feeling...

**Jiro** · 02-02-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Preveres... and also what and how they did with dead animals...

lacking of empathy like what I posted link of her interview last year... no feeling...

???? I have no idea what you just said. That doesn't answer why you used

for pictures of Gitmo Camp that Reba posted.

**Jiro** · 02-02-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Relatives of 2 who died at Gitmo sue Pentagon
Families allege torture and brutal conditions led men to their suicides

updated 6:38 p.m. ET Jan. 29, 2009

Families sue Pentagon over 2 Gitmo deaths - Guantanamo- msnbc.com

so? that's not a proof. That's just an overly-exaggerated allegation.

**Reba** · 02-02-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Former Gitmo guard speaks of inmate 'torture'

Why should I believe that guard more than other guards and witnesses?

Also, did he say during what this period the mistreatment occurred? Did he say whether or not that was official policy, or were the guards reassigned or punished?

Quote:

'Force-feeding'

Meanwhile, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has written a letter to US Secretary of Defence (sic) Robert Gates protesting the "inhumane and unlawful practice" of force-feeding hunger strikers at the prison.

Would the ACLU write a letter complaining if the prisoners had died of starvation?

Quote:

"We respectfully and urgently request that you immediately order the prison camp's commander to cease all force-feeding of detainees who are capable of forming a rational judgment and are aware of the consequences of refusing food."

Mr Dawkar also cited various reports that found that force-feeding at Guantanamo Bay amounted to torture...

So keeping people alive thru feeding is torture but letting them starve to death is OK?

Quote:

"Debilitating risks of force-feeding include major infections, pneumonia and collapsed lungs," said Mr Dawkar, recalling that five detainees have died in custody at the US naval base prison.

Did they actually die from force feeding or is that just an inference?

Quote:

Ms Smith defended detainee care at Guantanamo Bay. "As always, our dedicated medical staff provides superb health care to all detainees, and they closely monitor the health of those detainees who choose to hunger strike," she said.

She argued that the ratio of one medical staff member for every two Guantanamo detainees "far exceeds US prison standards" ...

How many of us have medical services of that ratio?

02-02-2009, 09:13 AM	#175 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 31,038	Former Gitmo guard speaks of inmate 'torture' Posted Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:43pm AEDT The US Department of Defence says its policy is to treat detainees humanely. (REUTERS: Brennan Linsley) A former guard at Guantanamo Bay has spoken about the brutality to inmates he witnessed while working at the US detention centre. It is seven years this weekend since the camp was opened by the United States to hold indefinitely those it says it considered its enemies in "the war on terror." The US Department of Defence says its policy is to treat detainees humanely. But Chris Arendt has told the BBC some of his fellow guards were so violent as to be psychotic. He says what he saw there amounted to torture. "I saw people storm into the cell and beat that detainee, and then zip-tie the detainee and pull them out. I saw that done excessively," he said. "I saw people kicking detainees in the face. It's torture, it's a means of extracting information that I didn't even believe these people probably had." 'Force-feeding' Meanwhile, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has written a letter to US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates protesting the "inhumane and unlawful practice" of force-feeding hunger strikers at the prison. "I am writing to bring your attention to the cruel, inhuman, degrading and unlawful treatment of the thirty hunger striking detainees currently held at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility," wrote ACLU Human Rights Program director Jamil Dakwar. Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said there were 34 hunger strikers at the prison and that 25 of them were being force-fed. The ACLU said it based its estimates on media reports. "Force-feeding is universally considered to be a form of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment," Mr Dakwar wrote to Mr Gates. "We respectfully and urgently request that you immediately order the prison camp's commander to cease all force-feeding of detainees who are capable of forming a rational judgment and are aware of the consequences of refusing food." Mr Dawkar also cited various reports that found that force-feeding at Guantanamo Bay amounted to torture and violated several US Supreme Court holdings and international agreements, including the Convention Against Torture ratified by the United States in 1994. Lawyers representing Guantanamo detainees said that force-fed prisoners were masked and strapped to a chair twice a day and were force fed protein-rich liquids through tubes inserted in their noses. The lawyers said the practice amounted to torture. "Debilitating risks of force-feeding include major infections, pneumonia and collapsed lungs," said Mr Dawkar, recalling that five detainees have died in custody at the US naval base prison. Ms Smith defended detainee care at Guantanamo Bay. "As always, our dedicated medical staff provides superb health care to all detainees, and they closely monitor the health of those detainees who choose to hunger strike," she said. She argued that the ratio of one medical staff member for every two Guantanamo detainees "far exceeds US prison standards" and shows the prison's commitment "to the safe and humane care and custody of detainees in a legal, ethical and transparent manner." US President-elect Barack Obama has stated his intention to shut down Guantanamo and Mr Gates ordered aides last month to draw up plans for closing the facility. Former Gitmo guard speaks of inmate 'torture' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) __________________

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02-01-2009, 03:53 PM	#154 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	reba, jow do you quote a single post lik e tht?