What Is the Big Deal With Gay Marriage? - Page 15

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

LOL@Jiro.

Come on, that's what you want. My MIL bought a Cosmo magazine to find out what the #1 thing men wanted in the bedroom. Guess what it was? I could have saved her 3 bucks. lol

oh my lordy!

**sallylou** · 10-25-2011, 11:50 PM

TXgolfer claims to be an

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

It was pretty popular in the Roman Empire.....

Whatever happened to those guys anyway?

Is that your slippery slope argument?

**Reba** · 10-26-2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Why? Because I refuse to accept a religious belief that does not apply to all for a legal premise that does? There is a reason that you are allowed to choose your religion but laws apply to all equally.

Same-sex marriage is not the law of the land in the USA. It's been passed in a few states.

We do get to choose our laws by voting in referendums, and by electing representatives who will vote for us.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Reba - I gots a question for you...

Two people named Chris and Sam are going to get married. The thing is that they're both bona-fide hermaphrodites with fully equipped organs - What do you say? ok or not ok?

(.... before anyone writes this off, one of them is actually my friend.)

This is exactly why I asked if anyone had bothered to read the studies I was referencing in a previous post.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Same-sex marriage is not the law of the land in the USA. It's been passed in a few states.

We do get to choose our laws by voting in referendums, and by electing representatives who will vote for us.

But what criteria are you using to make those votes? A few states, several countries, and moving forward.

FireTiger · 10-26-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Reba - I gots a question for you...

Two people named Chris and Sam are going to get married. The thing is that they're both bona-fide hermaphrodites with fully equipped organs - What do you say? ok or not ok?

(.... before anyone writes this off, one of them is actually my friend.)

I'm not Reba...
The current legal definition of male has nothing to do with a penis, it has to do with having one (or more) 'Y' chromosomes... the current definition of female is lacking 'Y' chromosomes...

this actually came up in our ethics class for Med.

Most Hermaphrodites get 'gender assigned' at birth or shortly after birth (by removal of a non fully formed organ, whichever one).

How to house the set (there where three in the same area it was apparently a 'non gender assigned' hermaphrodite convention that then had a tragic accident

)

The correct answer was to ask the person's their chosen gender identity, (or assign then all single rooms... which didn't count for full credit but should have... *my answer*)

**Reba** · 10-26-2011, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I'm not bashing it. I am describing it. Paternalistic, ethnocentric, and imperialistic are all descriptives. In the way I used them they are descriptive of a type of behavior and/or attitude.

Even when your descriptives are simply inaccurate biased opinions.

Thankfully, people can read all the posts for themselves, and make their own judgments. They don't have to depend on your "descriptives."

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

But what criteria are you using to make those votes? A few states, several countries, and moving forward.

Does it matter?

**sallylou** · 10-26-2011, 12:11 AM

Gender and sexual orientation are two completely different issues.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireTiger

I'm not Reba...
The current legal definition of male has nothing to do with a penis, it has to do with having one (or more) 'Y' chromosomes... the current definition of female is lacking 'Y' chromosomes...

this actually came up in our ethics class for Med.

Most Hermaphrodites get 'gender assigned' at birth or shortly after birth (by removal of a non fully formed organ, whichever one).

How to house the set (there where three in the same area it was apparently a 'non gender assigned' hermaphrodite convention that then had a tragic accident

)

The correct answer was to ask the person's their chosen gender identity, (or assign then all single rooms... which didn't count for full credit but should have... *my answer*)

Actually, genetically, we are programed to become female by default. It is the effects of hormone exposure prenatally that make the determination of whether one becomes male or female. Since they don't do genetic testing at birth, it is entirely possible for a newborn to appear male but to have the chromosome make up of a female, or vice versa. These instances are not true hermaphroditism, or intersexed individuals. They are individuals who have the external and internal genitalia of one sex, but the chromosome pattern of the opposite sex.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Gender and sexual orientation are two completely different issues.

Yes, they are. Gender is a social construction, sex is biological.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Does it matter?

Yes.

**sallylou** · 10-26-2011, 12:20 AM

Especially in a patriarchy.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Even when your descriptives are simply inaccurate biased opinions.

Thankfully, people can read all the posts for themselves, and make their own judgments. They don't have to depend on your "descriptives."

You see them as inaccurate; I see them as accurate.

Yes, thank goodness they can. They are not dependent upon my descriptives. They are perfectly capapble of applying the same ones themselves.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Especially in a patriarchy.

No doubt.

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Gender and sexual orientation are two completely different issues.

True..... I never got the association between the GLB and the T. IMO the T really holds the GLB back. Not with me but just opinions I have heard here and there.

**sallylou** · 10-26-2011, 12:23 AM

Most people, including myself, have a hard time understanding transgender issues. I try to look at it as people being what they were born to be when the apparent gender didn't fit. I can imagine that it's really hard for transpeople growing up.

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yes.

I think not. One is free to use any criteria they chose when voting. That is the beauty of it.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

True..... I never got the association between the GLB and the T. IMO the T really holds the GLB back. Not with me but just opinions I have heard here and there.

Why would transsexual or transgender hold the gay, lesbian, and bisexual group back? A transexual and a transgender are two different things and the T stands for both.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I think not. One is free to use any criteria they chose when voting. That is the beauty of it.

That's the frightening part of it.

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Why would transsexual or transgender hold the gay, lesbian, and bisexual group back? A transexual and a transgender are two different things and the T stands for both.

Totally aware of that.

You would have to ask the people that feel that way.

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That's the frightening part of it.

Again probably everyone agrees with that....but for different reasons

posts from hell · 10-26-2011, 12:33 AM

Since Reba skipped answering my question....

I have no interest going forward in this discussion.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Totally aware of that.

You would have to ask the people that feel that way.

You are the one that said it held them back. I'm asking you how it would.

jillio · 10-26-2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Since Reba skipped answering my question....

I have no interest going forward in this discussion.

Yeah, my question regarding the biological/medical research was ignored too. Says a lot, doesn't it?

FireTiger · 10-26-2011, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Actually, genetically, we are programed to become female by default. It is the effects of hormone exposure prenatally that make the determination of whether one becomes male or female. Since they don't do genetic testing at birth, it is entirely possible for a newborn to appear male but to have the chromosome make up of a female, or vice versa. These instances are not true hermaphroditism, or intersexed individuals. They are individuals who have the external and internal genitalia of one sex, but the chromosome pattern of the opposite sex.

Well, yes and no, there are genetic conditions that causes sex traits to be crossed, the current definition stands in courts...

Yes sex ( XX or XY or (XXX,XXY,X0) ) and gender (girls should like pink, boys should like blue- social) are different, I'll stand by 'gender assigned' however because if both sets are considered functional, it is up to the parents to decide what to do (leave both or 'gender assign').

[BIOLOGY]

xo
xxy
xyy

are some examples of funny things that can happen on the way to knowing sex.

we are not 'programed' female it so much as it is that the 'x' chromosomes carry the coding for other major organs so that if there are no 'x' chromosomes present there is no life (in non monotremes mammals) - without a 'y' chromosome the default condition is -considered- female in mammals (X0) would be a not-fertile female.

(aside) 'programed' and 'default condition' may mean the same for most normal non-sleep deprived people... I see a little gnome or something sitting there typing code...

Apperently neither is true. Chromosomal Sex Determination in Mammals - Developmental Biology - NCBI Bookshelf -skim the whole thing, its neat. -(/aside)

(why particular types of genetic disorders only show up in the maternal carrier's sons)

(Birds are the opposite, male unless specified female and some reptiles are really odd - an the monotremes... uggg - this is my degree...)

[/BIOLOGY]

(then again it's also 2 AM and odd things are in my head...

)

So it probably come down to what gender they had been self ID as, if opposite then nobody cares, if they both claim to be the same gender some people care (but not me).

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You are the one that said it held them back. I'm asking you how it would.

Judging what I have heard from other....many in the gay community in fact.

**TXgolfer** · 10-26-2011, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yeah, my question regarding the biological/medical research was ignored too. Says a lot, doesn't it?

Yes, it says you should start a different thread

10-25-2011, 11:50 PM	#422 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	TXgolfer claims to be an __________________

10-26-2011, 12:11 AM	#430 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Gender and sexual orientation are two completely different issues. deafdyke and Ildri like this. __________________

10-26-2011, 12:20 AM	#434 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Especially in a patriarchy. deafdyke likes this. __________________

10-26-2011, 12:23 AM	#438 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Most people, including myself, have a hard time understanding transgender issues. I try to look at it as people being what they were born to be when the apparent gender didn't fit. I can imagine that it's really hard for transpeople growing up. deafdyke likes this. __________________

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10-26-2011, 12:33 AM	#444 (permalink)
posts from hell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9,434	Since Reba skipped answering my question.... I have no interest going forward in this discussion.