SkullChick

Wirelessly posted

meat eater versus vegetarian/vegan and mass production, animal cruelty to feedstock and disgusting food addition in food we didnt expect to find are he topic.... debate.

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[Left Ear] Implanted 1/15/08 with Nucleus Freedom!
Activated 2/12/08 with Freedom BTE
Link for my Cochlear Implant
http://skullchick.blogspot.com
Link for my Blog unrelated to cochlear Implant
http://skullchickworld.blogspot.com

Deafness

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radioman

hmm. lets picture this scenario. its in the middle of winter. you had a bad summer of collecting and storing your crop. ground is frozen. out of food. need food. you see a brown bunny hopping along on the snow. or a deer. no trees for miles for eating bark or making tea from pine needles. now what?
come spring.you survived. are you still a vegetarian? or just a mix? is eating wildlife a cruelty? Mother nature provided us a way for having a circle of life for thousands of years.

On the other hand, many people becomes vegetarians in a protest in animal cruelty because they are trying to feed the world without depleting the wildlife animals.

Why not have your own farm? raise animals the way you want?

Barbaro

I grew up watching my family slaughtering cows, chickens, racoons, etc for their meals or sell them to others. Some of them even named their animals before eating them. It is common. I eat meat organs. My favorite is liver. Yeah, I eat plenty of saturated fats food. I never eat bread or pasta. Personally, I'd rather to order the meat directly from the local farms instead of buying them at grocery stores. They're soooo fresh.

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SkullChick

Wirelessly posted

yeah but what about living in urban evironment what are our options and dont forget for those with limited incomes?

__________________
[Left Ear] Implanted 1/15/08 with Nucleus Freedom!
Activated 2/12/08 with Freedom BTE
Link for my Cochlear Implant
http://skullchick.blogspot.com
Link for my Blog unrelated to cochlear Implant
http://skullchickworld.blogspot.com

DeafCaroline

Urban gardens. Indoor gardening. Balcony gardening. Rooftop gardening. I know of one couple who cultivate honey on their rooftop to earn a bit of extra income. And my city just passed a bylaw permitting chicken coops in backyards.

I first became a vegan for two reasons: animal cruelty in factory farming and for environmental reasons. When I learned that because of water runoffs from factory farms, there are dead zones in the oceans and fish are picking up farm animal diseases, that was the last straw for me. And when I learned that only 2% of the water on this planet is fresh water and this is running out due to glacier ice caps melting, that was another reason to quit meat since the agricultural industry consumes the most fresh water (for both animals and growing crops for animal feed - 10 billion animals a year in the US is slaughtered for meat, that's a lot of land and fresh water). According to EPA - Environmental Protection Agency - up to 70% of all streams and rivers and groundwater in the USA is contaminated by factory farming - did you know one dairy cow produces as much waste as 23 humans?

People say they love meat and people had always been eating meat. Truth is, up until the 1920s when factory farming first started, people only ate meat a couple times a week. Due to factory farming, people can now eat meat and protein 3 times a day and at a much lower cost. This has become the new norm but at great cost to the environment and results in great cruelty on industrialized farms.

One example of a factory farm: Cal-Maine - largest egg producer in the US (annual income is 1 billion a year, they have 30 millions hens and only 5 workers to look after them) was fined for the following - I should point out that it was due to an undercover investigation that those atrocities were revealed - the agricultural industry now wants to make it a law to make undercover investigations illegal - they lose too much money every time their atrocities are made public. :

HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) reports some of the atrocities found from this investigation (and this investigation occured AFTER Cal-Maine had to recall 300,000 eggs due to salmonella poisoning):

- Birds producing eggs for human consumption confined in overcrowded cages with the rotting corpses of other birds—some of whom had clearly been dead for days or even weeks
- Dead hens, trapped under the trough feeders of their cages, had died with their heads on the egg conveyor belts – exposing passing eggs to the decaying bird
- Birds trapped by their wings, necks and legs in the thin, rusty wires of the battery cages.
- Birds with severely injured legs, unable to reach food or water
- Birds suffering from severe, bloody uterine prolapses enduring the pain of other hens in the overcrowded cages stepping on them
- Hens in the bottom two tiers of battery cages often covered in feces from birds in cages above them
- Escaped hens often becoming covered in liquid manure from the filth of the shallow manure scraping pits, these hens can go from barn-to-barn through manure trenches or on egg conveyors
- Hens drowning, unable to escape the manure trench that runs underneath the cages and into the pipe leading to the outside lagoon
- Discarded dead hens left on floors, cage ledges and tops, and carts
- Eggs covered in blood and feces


And this is not the only factory farm found in violation. If you google factory farm violations, you will find many examples. So, next time you go shopping for meat, eggs and milk at Walmart or buy a chicken burger at a fast food joint, keep in mind what you're buying came from farms like the above.

You may be surprised I have nothing against eating meat. I do eat meat and in fact, ate meat in Alabama because it came from a small family farm up the road that I had visited. Chickens had total reign of the property and were free to run and peck wherever they liked. I am a vegan about 95% of the time but if I knew the meat came from a small family farm where they take excellent care of their animals, then I don't mind eating it.

posts from hell

Nice post Caroline. Thats the stance I take. I buy from the farm I am on right now. 300 acres for only about 150 heads.

I do my homework, reading up on what and where my food comes from.

It also is helpful that my hometown is the "Foodiest City in America" because the patrons oftentimes challenge the waiters/chef on their culinary knowledge usually targeted on where the food came from. Our restaurants advertise where the meat is from and how it is. "All natural, free range" etc. accompanied with the farm's name.

Pretty cool if you asked me.

souggy

I butchered my first turkey when I was 5... Fished all of my life. Hunting... not so much until recently.

Actually, when I had zero income-- most of my meat came from salmon.

Unfortunately, I don't do this anymore since I don't live on the coastline anymore.

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dogmom

Caroline, yup I had read about that - why I support local farmer's and markets, getting pastured and family-farmed animal products for all 4 of us.

DeafCaroline

That's great! Also, word of warning: free range doesnt always mean healthy. There was a free range farm in Canada that was forced to be shut down because they had so many chickens in the barn that even though the door was left open, the chickens were too crowded in to be able to get out and this overcrowding made them too weak and sick to be able to move much at all. Apparently to be considered free range, you only need to leave the door open.

To be free-range, these are the only requirements (and these are US laws):
"Free-range" cows and sheep must be "grass fed and live on a range," and birds must have some form of access to the outdoors, but no other criteria - such as the size of the "range," the amount of space individual animals must have, or animal care and handling - are required.

The Washington Post Magazine reported that, especially in the case of birds, the term free-range "doesn't really tell you anything about the [animal's] quality of life, nor does it even assure that the animal actually goes outdoors." Moreover, the accuracy of these claims is rarely if ever verified because the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), which defines free-range and free-roaming for labeling purposes, relies "upon producer testimonials to support the accuracy of these claims."

Karen Davis, president of United Poultry Concerns, visited Happy Hen Organic Fertile Brown Eggs, a "free-range" egg farm in Pennsylvania. According to flyers for Happy Hen eggs, the hens run free "in a natural setting" and are "humanely housed in healthy, open-sided housing, for daily sunning - something Happy Hens really enjoy." Davis's observations stood in stark contrast to the farm's claims. "Inside, the birds were wall to wall. They were severely debeaked and their feathers were in bad condition - straggly, drab, and worn off." More than 7,000 birds were housed in each Happy Hen barn, and individual hens had no more than 1_ square feet of space, not room enough even to spread their wings. Happy Hens were also occasionally force-molted (denied food for several days to shock the hens into losing their feathers and prematurely starting a new laying cycle).

I think research on meats you eat is always a good thing. So, if you know the name of the farm you're buying from, look them up.

dogmom

true - yeah "free-range" means little as a label. I look for "access to grass/pasture" and descriptions like "hens roam and eat bugs..." <often available if you actually discuss with the farmer, or it might be described in a newsletter if the farm is also a CSA or on their website or other printed material.>
All "free-range" means is the chickens aren't battery hens - but they could still be crammed like sardines into a building, milling around.

the Cornucopia Institute has ratings and info. on meat and dairy operations:The Cornucopia Institute

SkullChick

Wirelessly posted

not all of housing in urban evironment have access to rooftop or have balcony or backyard.

__________________
[Left Ear] Implanted 1/15/08 with Nucleus Freedom!
Activated 2/12/08 with Freedom BTE
Link for my Cochlear Implant
http://skullchick.blogspot.com
Link for my Blog unrelated to cochlear Implant
http://skullchickworld.blogspot.com

DeafCaroline

True. But there is still indoor vertical gardening that can be possible. You asked what one's options are for gardening in the city and I listed them but forgot to add there's also community gardening which is becoming a very big trend in cities these days. Where i live, there are at least 2 community gardens per neighbourhood. And there's also even a fruit and veggie delivery service. You sign up and you can pick an option to pay from 20 to 60 dollars a week (depending on how much you want) and get fruits and veggies grown on local farms dropped off at your doorstep. I have also heard of farmers setting up camp once a week in each neighbourhood, usually at someone's home where the neighbours would come by at a specific time to buy fruits and veggies straight from the back of the farmer's truck.

There are many many options for those who live in the city - it takes time to research and figure out what they are. I only found out about the farmers' delivery of fresh produce because I was walking down the sidewalk and saw a large number of people outside of someone's home picking up huge plastic bins of fruits and veggies and paying these farmers for them. I walked over to inquire and learned about this service.

jillio

I could live on a steady diet of salmon, no problem. Actually, any kind of fish.

DeafCaroline

Same here. My dream home is a self-sustainable farm complete with a fish pond. In Poland, there was this really cool restaurant that had a very big man made pond filled with fish. You go in, pick the fish you want and they would send someone out to fish it from the pond and it would be on your plate 10 minutes later. That's the kind of pond I want on my land!

radioman

its much more involved then that with ponds. just take a gander over to pondboss.com website and look. I contemplated diggin one, but now not sure if I want to go ahead with that plan.

DeafCaroline

I clicked on the link but I am not seeing anything that shows how involved having a fish pond is or why it's making you not sure if you want to go ahead with that route. Care to elaborate?

DeafCaroline

de nada

sequoias

Wirelessly posted (sent from a smartphone. )

They say its not healthy to eat too much fish due to the stuff that was polluted from the ocean/lakes. I forgot the other reasons.

radioman

my bad.. what I meant was, this website is the best place to go for any pond making questions. it takes time, but diggin thru the forum will find alot of good answers and question to making a pond, stocking it with fishes, depth of water for certain variety of fish. There are too many people out there who think that having a hole in ground that is more then 4 ft deep is good enough for any fish they want. I can go on and on on this topic...

Point is , regardless where you settle down, doesnt matter it has a pond already or not, it takes alot of work to find the right balance for certain fish you want.

DeafCaroline

Ah, gotcha. I did assume there would be work and research involved in having a fish pond. One would have to be very naive and ignorant to think it's as simple as a hole in the ground.

posts from hell

I prefer wild fish over stock fish. Most obvious example would be trouts here in Colorado.

The division of wildlife releases about 60 million baby trouts into our streams annually. This is so other animals can feed on the trouts and we can participate in recreational fishing.

The biggest issue I can see with these trouts are that when you catch a rainbow trout you can tell the difference between a stocked trout and a wild trout. The stocked trouts were raised on eating plants while wild trouts grew up eating bugs, having more protein in them. The visual difference is that their bellies are colored differently. Stocked trouts would have whiter bellies than the pink of the wild trouts.

Cooking: Wild trout meat will be orange. Stocked white.

Fishing for wild trout is much harder. I've had the opportunity to experiment with actual wild trouts within feet from me.

Soooo, fish pond? Man made and introducing trouts? I'd give it several years before you catch your own in the pond.

Jiro

It's not healthy to eat too much of anything anyway.

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DeafCaroline

That's cool. I plan to be alive for a good while longer, I can wait

Jiro

that is exactly how you engage in intellectual conversation with people about food they're eating

If people still don't care... so what? It's their loss and they will develop cancer or serious health issue later on. It's not your problem and you can't save everybody especially idiots. You only need to focus on convincing one person instead of several idiots because from there... that one person will convince other people too.

It's much more effective that way than resorting to cheapshot method like Earthlings. Based on my experience and I believe it's already confirmed by experts... it's more effective to inform the public in informative, intellectual manner than using shocking videos after videos because Earthlings offered no dialogue. no information. nothing. It's just as bad as brainwashing technique used in Clockwork Orange.

btw - you're right that just because the label said the food is organic or free-ranged... it doesn't mean diddly squat because all they had to do is meet MINIMUM requirements to get such label. That's why I look for specific brand that has good reputation.

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Jiro

Fish Pond... I dunno but I'm not too fond of it. I get the image of fish pond as stagnant... inbred...

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DeafCaroline

Earthlings does have dialogue and information - and it's no different from any other form of reporting except that it's visual where an article I linked about that chicken farm to is just words. Still the same story and still the same graphic descriptions. I think it's the visual aspect you don't like. I have a feeling that if I had posted to a video about that chicken farm instead of an article, you would tell me you don't like the shock tactic. The thing is a photo tells a thousand words and that's why it can be much more effective than just the written word.

It's one thing to read about animal cruelty and quite another to see photos and or videos of it. the visual leaves a far bigger impact and stays in your mind longer.

I don't consider Earthlings a cheap shot at all, people just don't like seeing the visuals of the cruelty humans have imposed on animals raised for profit. Those videos are true and real and very much a portrayal of what's really going on behind the scenes for we don't see it when we go to the grocery store or to the pet store.

sequoias made my point perfectly for me - he doesn't like to see animals killed and butchered but he likes eating meat. that's classic head in the sand avoidance of the truth.

Jiro

You missed one critical thing from my post - Earthlings used shocking videos after videos after videos. It's repetitive. It's exactly same technique used for brainwashing people. It's how misconception and misinformation began.

If a person cannot convince people with just words along with few videos/photos alone... then it's ok to resort to extreme measure? That's what terrorists, KKK, Fat Cats (tobacco, McDonald, etc.), Brady Campaign, and special interest groups do to scare people into believing their version of truth without question. A fear-mongering method.

so we should put him in front of tv and force him to watch Earthlings from start to end to make him see the truth?

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DeafCaroline

Jiro,

factory farming, animal shelters, puppy mills have been reported about for years and nothing's changed. Then the creators of Earthlings decided it's time to shake things up and hold up a mirror to society and say "this is what you have done. The truth is ugly but you owe it to those animals to bear witness to how your demands and attitudes have affected literally the lives of billions of living breathing beings."

If people want to consider that a cheap shot and a fear-mongering method, not my problem. that's theirs -. I applaud Earthlings for having made a difference that years and years of reporting had not. They are not the ones imposing such widespread cruelty and atrocity, it's us, you, me, the guy next door, it's all of us. Earthlings is making us look at ourselves in the mirror and what we're seeing is so atrocious most of us cannot bear to look head on at what we've done. Isn't that more horrific than people putting several videos together? I think so.

posts from hell

i just watched earthlings....

Jiro

Earthlings movie came out in 2005. PETA came about in around 1980's.

How is it going so far? Are cruel slaughterhouses, farmers, and puppy mills still in business?

It isn't about how horrible it is. I'm questioning its method used to convince people to think about it. You know that I'm a very level-headed and logical person. If Earthlings cannot convince me, then how can it convince thousands of people?

Food, Inc. and your 2 long posts above can enable me to strongly convince people to think about what they're eating because it's full of information that people need to make an informed decision.

But I don't see any information from Earthlings. It's disgusting. It destroys any chance or possibility for people to have an intellectual discussion to begin with. It doesn't even offer anything for me to do something about it. It's basically saying one thing - "don't eat meat. don't buy pets."

You think about it. Which one is much more likely to convince people to buy produces from local farmers - Earthlings or your 2 posts above.

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