Lighthouse77

assisted sucide is somewhat dangerous. I asked someone what if someone change their mind at the last minute, how would they be able to communicate. One person actually told me "That's why they put them to sleep first so fear wouldn't change their mind"

My goodness, that sound like murder to me. you know, forbidding someone to speak out that they changed their mind. At least with real suicide, you know their decision is permanent.

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dreama

I know, it's really shocking that something like that happened.
My mom did change her mind because when she was well she said she didn't want to be a burden to us. Then when she was dying of cancer, she decided that she did want to live after all, even with all the pain that her cancer was causing her.

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jillio

We aren't talking medically induced coma. That is a whole different topic.

And there are numerous ways to determine the level of coma and the extent of brain damage the individual has suffered.

jillio

No one puts anyone to sleep in PAS. In fact, the patient has to be able to take the meds by their own hand. You really should inform yourself on the topic. I have posted any number of links that outline the restrictions and the criteria.

Lighthouse77

it doesn't really matter. if someone is like Michael Jackson , who had access to medicines that is enough to kill him, would they rule out assisted suicide or homicide? There will be doctors who act as Mercy Angel, and the bad part about it is that it would probably be hard to prove because the patient have already told this is what he wanted.

My point is that homicide would be very difficult to rule out in assisted suicide. Even if the person explained it over and over again that this is what he want.

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dreama

Good point!

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dreama

I am very well informed on this matter. I don't believe literature from anyone who promotes death.

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souggy

If Michael Jackson wanted assisted suicide, it would be on his medical file.

And... don't say "I don't believe in literature from anyone that promote (something you disagree with)"

I don't believe in Communism and I despise Communists, yet I still read the Marxist texts and the doctrines people send me. Why? You never know if there would be something of value.

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dreama

Did you read the links I posted on my thread about alternatives to animal testing?

It's not so much about somthing I disagree with but I'm vegan and pro life. Anything that does not fit in with any of my values concerning the sactimony of life won't be read because I have better things to do with my time.

In particular I keep well away from anyone who promotes death for any reason whatsoever. It's not merely a question of disagreement, it's a question of ethnics.

Would you read something written by Adolf hitler or his followers which condones murdering of non arian races?

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shel90

Yes, I would read something written by Hilter because it would give me an insight to his way of thinking and why the Holocaust happened. The mind works in mysterious ways so it can be fascinating.

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dreama

Not if he wanted to brainwash his readership. There must have been that going on, there always is which is why I avoid certain sources because I want to keep myself pure from that sort of indocrination.

And besides it's depressing when any group of people are marked out for death, wether it's considered in their 'best interest' or not.

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souggy

* whistles *

My history professor encouraged us read to a rather... touchy manuscript that is blacklisted by almost every western intelligence agency (it gotta do with Zionism)... it's a propaganda pamphlet, and it's racist and reeks anti-Semitism; however she encouraged us to read it since it's the root of all the racism and anti-Semitism in this world since 1903 since people actually still read it and still believe in it even though it was proven to be a forgery and a hoax.

Her rationale? You need to understand what the enemy are reading in order to offset their ideas.

And yes, I have. Now I know why my biology professors say it's not practical.

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dreama

Souggy: You haven't answered my question:

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souggy

I did...

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dreama

Souggy: Sorry I didn't notice that bit.
We draw entirely differant conclusions on this matter.

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jillio

No, homicide would not be difficult to rule out in the case of PAS. Please take the time to learn about PAS before forming these opinions in error.

jillio

If you believe people are put to sleep prior to PAS, then you are not nearly as well informed as you think you are. Death is a fact of life. Can't avoid it by pretending it doesn't exist, or attempting to blame the medical establishment for its occurrance. PAS is not an issue of death, as everyone will experience death. It is an issue of retaining one's autonomy and dignity in the face of death.

And PAS is like abortion. If you don't agree with it, don't engage in it. But you have absolutely no right to determine what another may elect to do. You have say so over your own life only.

jillio

Under the criteria for PAS, Michael Jackson would not have qualified. Therefore, he would not have been granted physician assisted suicide.

And I agree. Refusal to examine both sides of an issue from a fact based perspective is nothing more than an indication of narrow mindedness and willing ignorance.

jillio

Yeppers. I am reminded of the line: "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer." Refusal to study the other side, even as objectionable as it may be to you, actually leaves you vulnerable to being brainwashed.

CJB

That just shows your opinion is based on only reading half the story.

And it's not about promoting death, it's about promoting the choice to die over having your life artificially extended or the choice to die over suffering tremendously. If you don't want to be assisted in suicide that's fine, but at least let others have the option to do so.

dreama

We disagree on this matter. So there is no cause for name calling. That is plain childish.

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CJB

Where did jillio call you names?

dreama

My opinion is based on what disabled people themselves say in groups such as 'not dead yet',. Have you read their literature? Sometimes the other side just simply isn't worth bothering about. It's not being narrow minded, it's just self preservations, because if I went on reading all that nonsense about how terribly worthless an ailing or disabled life is I really would end up wanting to kill myself.

As for choice, there is some decisions like wether or not you can murder your wife/child, or wether you can drive drunk or sober, that no choice should be allowed. It's as simple as that.

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shel90

Jillio always gets blamed for many things here on AD.

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CJB

Yeah, I'm not seeing anywhere where jillio resorted to name-calling.

jillio

Looks like you are misreading and drawing erroneous conclusions again. Nowhere did I call you a name.

Jiro

perfectly understandable but here's a thing.

You and I have different stances on this issue. yes that is understandable and I have no problem with it. however - your reasoning and argument on my (and our) stance are illogical and UNTRUE.

That's the point.

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Jiro

poor jillio. I guess she knows how Obama feels.

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jillio

At least I'm in good company!

Bottesini

But you did just infer that she can't read or reason!!

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