PuyoPiyo

Once I read Liebling's post, I am sure she was probably talking about me.

http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates...tml#post961530

Her post finally changed my view, not about the abortion, but those words "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice".

I am personally against the abortion, that makes me a pro-life. Then I don't support 100 percent illegalize the abortion, then that make me a pro-choice. I view abortion as killing children, then that make me a pro-life. I support woman who risked her life by miscarriage to abort the baby, then I am pro-choice.

This is too confusing to me.. Can anyone make it clear to me, or do you just take one side and support everything out of it even though you don't support some of them, and label yourself as "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice"?

I am not sure how to start this, but I would like to see someone to discuss about those words "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice", are they worth for you to label yourself, or not?

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Deafness

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Liebling:-)))

No, it´s not you, I am refer to with my post but other ADer. Check my PM.

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PuyoPiyo

Confirmated

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jillio

Well, the terms pro-choice and pro-life aren't so much directly related to how you feel for yourself, but how you react to others.

Fo rinstance, I am pro-choice. I have never had an abortion, and doubt very seriously, based on my personal values, that I would ever make the choice to have one. That is my personal belief for me. I am free to choose what I believe and what I do based on my beliefs.

However, I also believe that others have the same right as me to decide for themselves. I do not have the right to tell another woman that she can't have an abortion, if abortion is in line with her personal beliefs and values. If I want the right to choose not to have an abortion, then I also have to give the right to others to choose to have an abortion. This is a decision that every woman must make for herslef, based on her personal values, and her religious beliefs, and her world views.

Pro-choicers do not attempt to force others to believe the same as they do. They do not tell anyone that they must have an abortion. They allow them to make that decision on their own.

Pro-lifers, however, as a group, say that everyone must believe the same as they do. They tell a pregnant woman that she cannot have an abortion. They take choice away. They also have been known to bomb abortion clinics, and take the lives of the employees and pregant women inside all in the name of forcing others to believe the same as they do and act the same as they do. They force all preganant women to carry the pregancy to term, no matter what the circumstances. They believe that they have the right, for instance, to tell a woman that is pregnant from a rape that she MUST give birth to that baby no matter how much psychological damage it may do to her or the child. They try to force everyone into their way.

Pro-choicers don't try to force anyone to do anything. They simply give the woman the freedom to decide for herself. They don't tell anyone they have to have an abortion. They don't tell anyone they can't have an abortion. They simply say that everyone is entitled to their values and their beliefs, and they are entitled to make those choices for themselves.

So, you see, it isn't so much about the abortion issue as it is whether you believe that you have the right to force others to believe exactly the same things you do, and have the same reactions as you do, and behave just as you do. You are free to believe that life begins at conception, and base your actions on that belief. Others, however, are also free to believe what they believe, and base their decisions on that, whether they are the same as yours or not. The simple soution is, if you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But you have no right to make that decision for someone else. If you don't agree with it, fine. That is your choice. But if you wnat to be able to make that choice, then you have to allow others to make that choice, too. Take away the other person's power to choose, and you loose your power to choose, as well.

Liebling:-)))

I agreed everything what you say, Jillio.


[quote]Yes, me too. I first thought I am a pro-life because I personally am against abortion and especially partial-birth abortion until I focus what difference between pro-life and pro-choice is about. I know what it is about and accept the fact that I am pro-choice because I respect women´s choice (including life-threatening) without tell them what to do. I do not need to add anything because Jillio said is good enough.

Exactly, that´s why I disagree to have an abortion as an illegal, that make me pro-choice. It´s women´s body, not Government.

Well, I personally view an early abortion as a fetus removal and partial-birth abortion as killing unborn baby (because a fetus development grow into almost human). I am against abortion because I know a fetus development will go to human, it make me pro-life but I respect women´s choice, so it makes me a pro-choice.


Yes, it´s pro-choice, not pro-life.

I´m against attack other country for a war - pro-life
I´m against death penalty as a vengenance - pro-life
I´m against abortion - pro-life
I want abortion to be illegal - pro-life

I support women´s choice without force them what they do with their unborn baby - pro-choice

I support women´s decison for put their risk life first before fetus´s life because it´s their choice. - pro-choice.

I support troops to defend our country as a self-defense only if they WANT to... - pro choice

I support Assisted Suicide/Euthanasia to save people suffering ONLY if they WANT to because it´s their choice - pro-choice.

I support abortion and assisted suicide/euthanasia as a legal because it´s everyone´s choice, not for me.

If you are a half pro-life and half pro-choice which mean is you are pro-choice like what I put the list above because you are not full pro-life like what you said in several posts that you respect women´s choice when you personally against it and view it differently as them. If you are really true pro-lifer then you would judge women as a murder, selfish, etc. and force them to not abort and treat women crime... and want it as an illegal.


I hope my post make sense?

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PuyoPiyo

Jillio and Liebling,

I have no idea how to thank you for make it brighten up my POV about the abortion, I guess I am a pro-choice, as personal pro-life, but don't make others do the same as I do, so long live the Liberal

I now apologize for taking the wrong word around my posts, I will not use that word pro-life as my POV over the policy and abortion, except for my personal opinions. Forgive me?

By the way, thanks again!

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jillio

No apologies necessary, and you are very welcome!

KarissaMann05

Jillio... Sheesh...

Not all prolifers are like that... you really disappointed me after I tried to tell ADers that NOT all prolifers are like that. Each prolifer is different opinion but that is NOT making them less prolife being.

Now... I lost respect for you.

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jillio

Sorry that you have lost respect for me. And you must keep in mind that those I have spoken of are them ones that are claiming the title of pro-lifer. I didn't assign it to them, they claimed it for themselves. So if they are giving other pro-lifers a bad name, it is their responsibility, not mine.

Cowpuppy

We can't put them all into the same basket.
But, generally speaking...pro-life is rigid
As Jillio explained....it kinda comes down to how you would vote on the issue. That is the way most people view it when they ask which you are.
One can dislike abortion and yet vote to allow other to make the choice for themselves.
That makes the person pro-choice....even if dislike abortion.
Can't really call self pro-life if support others having a choice.

KarissaMann05

Now I am clam down before I could blow my mind off. Heh. But, I'm all right. And, hey, it's okay now.

Yeah, I hate when a pro-lifer give a bad name on pro-life community, in my opinion, he/she is not a pro-life if she/he'd done do wrong.

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KarissaMann05

Point out that, here, case is resting a lot on the "your morality isn't necessarily someone else's morality and you can't determined someone else's morality". To mention that morality is often determined by society at large, from minor non-enforced things such as "be courteous and hold open the door for others" subject to major law-enforced things such as "don't kill people". Okayyy… I think, the major is stumbling block that pro-choicers with the viewpoints that your post is expressing have; this is that they don't realize that the pro-life morality regareding abortion is one that, by nature, can't be one that is "live and let live" with regards to choices. Believing that abortion is wrong because it kills a living human being that isn't exactly something that can be ignored, like differing views on something such as the morality of alcohol… for instance.

Okay, okay, let’s make a point … I am still continued to get annoyed by pro-choicers’ comments who insist that I must really be pro-choice if I think that there are better ways to end abortion than making it illegal. I bet if I said "I'm pro-choice, but I think abortion is always wrong except in cases where the mother's health or life is at risk, and I would support making abortion illegal if I didn't think the life and health of women would not be protected and pregnant women are not helped with the resources they need to have a child," then they will pretty pissed at me for trying to call myself pro-choice. Oh wait, no, I can't possibly be pro-life if I care about women, right?

Just thought as two cents…

PS - please dont take so personal. It's only thought on your post. ^ ^;;

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Oceanbreeze

Bravo!

I can't add anything more to this! You said it perfectly.

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"And I don't want the world to see me
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

Oceanbreeze

Maybe not, but a good many are. Alot of pro-lifers try to force their beliefs on women and that's wrong to do. Each woman has the right to make that decision, and nobody has the right to make that decision for her!

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"And I don't want the world to see me
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

KarissaMann05

I know, a lot of pro-lifers had done so wrong. =/ I seriously think they SHOULD NOT tell them to do with their bodies. Plainly wrong. Keep that mind, not all pro-lifers do that anyway.

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Oceanbreeze

Exactly!

The decision to abort is NOT to be taken lightly, and I don't believe a woman enters into the decision lightly.

I can tell you that I believe that life begins at conception, and when you abort, a life is taken. I also don't think I could have an abortion. However, it is NOT my right to tell a woman what she should or shouldn't do with her pregnancy.

I would tell you about a friend of mine:

Back during the early 90s both of us was in college. She was just ending her first semester of pre-med studies. She got pregnant and didn't know what to do. She knew her Mother would react very badly, and the father was a typical "jock" , who was more concerned with making the pros than he was being a father. Before y'all say it, I will. She should have used bc. She did! It failed and she was pregnant. She called me one night frantic as all hell. I calmed her down. Told her to get a pregnancy test to confirm. Then, we would figure out what to do. She had the test. It was positive.

Her Mother and she didn't have a good relationship, so she couldn't very well go to her Mom. So, she came to me. I told her this: "I cannot tell you what to do, but whatever you decide, I will support you."

Well, she was so distraught that she ended up taking her own life. This was back in 1991.

My friend could not cope with being pregnant and the pressures of such a decision, but I believe I gave her unconditional support. I also believe what I told her. I cannot past judgement on the decisions a woman makes, because, it's not my right to do so. I also know that I might be in her shoes some day, and I might be faced with the same decision, and I would want someone to support me if the need be.

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"And I don't want the world to see me
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

KarissaMann05

I respectfully disagreed. That is actually high-common pro-life group while there are a few another different pro-life groups as "uncommon"/non-traditional person. Also, I am not one of common pro-lifers that you used to know, besides, it is not make me less pro-lifer either. I already explained it a such good point in some threads of mine. Even here too...

I jsut hate when people tried to tell me that:

<song>
Oh, you cant be pro-life if you are childfree!
Oh, you cant be prolife if you are not support illegal abortion!
Oh, you should not care about women!
Oh, blah blah blah!
</song>

Like I said, that is not for everyone fits their own stereotypes.

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KarissaMann05

I see the same thing, too. That is why I don't trust illegal abortions but I'd rather to have a favor for pro-birth controls. It is only a way to prevent a lots of unwanted pregnancies while it stays legal abortion (No, I don't support it either).

I only hope it get better as soon as possible in the future.

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PuyoPiyo