21's a Bust? Seven States Debate Lowering Drinking Age

***Jolie77*** · 04-13-2008, 08:51 PM

There is an ongoing debate whether to keep the drinking age at 21 or lower it down to 18 for either military personnel or for the general population.

Kentucky, South Carolina and Wisconsin are proposing the drinking age to be lowered to 18 just for the military personnel while Missouri, South Dakota, Vermont and Minnesota are considering the drinking age to be lowered for the general population.

Is it for the military rights or for the general population drinking age rights? Is it fair for the military personnel to be able to get a beer or two while the general population under 21 can't get it?

Please discuss.

Seven states consider lower drinking ages - UPI.com

ABC News: 21's a Bust? States Debate Drinking Age

***VamPyroX*** · 04-13-2008, 09:13 PM

They should lower the drinking age to 18 for the general population.

Drinking is a major issue in college because a lot of students like to be "bad" when they break the rule and drink. They feel "cool" from doing it.

By lowering the drinking age to 18, they are no longer "bad" because it's okay for them to drink. That will put it under control.

If they're old enough to leave home, old enough to join the military, old enough to have sex, old enough to do anything... then they should be old enough to drink!

***Jolie77*** · 04-13-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

They should lower the drinking age to 18 for the general population.

Drinking is a major issue in college because a lot of students like to be "bad" when they break the rule and drink. They feel "cool" from doing it.

By lowering the drinking age to 18, they are no longer "bad" because it's okay for them to drink. That will put it under control.

If they're old enough to leave home, old enough to join the military, old enough to have sex, old enough to do anything... then they should be old enough to drink!

I agree, but however, by lowering the age to 18 would also get the teenagers to think they are "cool" when they do it. So apparently, there's a no-win situation.

I felt that part of this bill was just only giving the military personnel a "special" treatment while the general population couldn't drink at that age. Ironically enough, at 18 you're at a war or wherever it is at, you see a lot of more things that are horrid rather than drinking a beer or two.

Yeah, there's concern about drinking and driving but really, at 21, almost everyone has already drank before they got to that age. I know I did before I turned 21. It'd not make a difference at 18 or 21.

JClarke · 04-13-2008, 09:23 PM

There is plenty of debates not to lower or can lower, but Vampy's opinion's right. Down here in Australia, the legal age of drinking is 18, not 21, but they wanted to upper the age limit on driving!

Chase · 04-13-2008, 09:33 PM

When I was a barely 18-year-old soldier, we 'cruits could drink the 3.2 beer at specified places when off duty on post and at fire bases. It was not okay off post or within six hours of going on duty.

I don't know how fair it was then or is now, but young military personnel are usually under closer supervision than civilian kids the same age.

For those reasons -- tighter supervision, accountability, and being under orders with harsh consequences for disobeying -- it's my considered opinion that just because some are old enough to serve in the military does not mean all under 21 are old enough, seasoned enough, experienced enough, wise enough to drink alcohol without the restrictions I mentioned

Or vote for that matter. The ancient Greeks had the right idea, no one could vote until having served in the military and having reached the age of 33.

shel90 · 04-13-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

They should lower the drinking age to 18 for the general population.

Drinking is a major issue in college because a lot of students like to be "bad" when they break the rule and drink. They feel "cool" from doing it.

By lowering the drinking age to 18, they are no longer "bad" because it's okay for them to drink. That will put it under control.

If they're old enough to leave home, old enough to join the military, old enough to have sex, old enough to do anything... then they should be old enough to drink!

I agree with you..once drinking becomes legal for 18 years old, the novelty of it will wear off for them just like when many of us turned 21.

18 years olds are old enough to marry but not old enough to drink. It doesnt make sense.

Chase · 04-13-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

18 years olds are old enough to marry but not old enough to drink. It doesnt make sense.

Okay, you're right. People shouldn't be able to get married until 33, either.

Kidding aside, in some states under certain circumstances, kids much younger than 18 can and do get married. I'm wondering if we should lower the drinking age to include all teens for that reason?

Same applies to the college "wanna break the rules and be a badass" logic. I taught both high school and college ages, and high school kids have the same pressures to want to drink. So we lower the drinking age to the summer after eighth grade?

shel90 · 04-13-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

Okay, you're right. People shouldn't be able to get married until 33, either.

Kidding aside, in some states under certain circumstances, kids much younger than 18 can and do get married. I'm wondering if we should lower the drinking age to include all teens for that reason?

Same applies to the college "wanna break the rules and be a badass" logic. I taught both high school and college ages, and high school kids have the same pressures to want to drink. So we lower the drinking age to the summer after eighth grade?

No, I do not agree lowering it to middle school. My point is that at 18 years old, we are legally adults...ok that means we, at 18, are responsible for ourselves and are capable of making our own decisions without parental control.

What I am saying that the maturity level really vaires with each person not based solely on age. There are some 18 years olds who are more mature than some 21 years old but yet, the immature 21 year olds have the priviledge to drink?

I am just playing Devil's advocate but in my real opinion, I dont think there is a huge maturity difference between 18 and 21 years old. At least it wasnt for me.

PuyoPiyo · 04-13-2008, 09:56 PM

Well I think they should lower the legal age for those drinkers who don't drive. I think the law should give people two option, get a car or keep the right to drink.

Cowpuppy · 04-13-2008, 09:58 PM

One of the issues becomes that being of legal age means being able to drink in the bars. As this usually requires driving to and then from the bar while hammered. Issue is that those between 18 and 21 haven't really learned to drink responsilby at all. Teh get into this guzzling crowds with music and dance and go all out.
One idea may be legalize it at 18 but not for drinking in bar or lounge establishments until 21.
Minnesota was legal age of 19 but only for 3.2 beer. There were bars called Three-Two bars which only served the weaker beer and no hard booze. Off-sale only 3.2.
Seemed fair enough to me. They could always get stronger beer now and then.
I remember during Vietnam War this issue came up. At the time it was military draft and it seemed so unjust to draft men to go to combat and yet they couldn't buy a damn beer. I'm sure these young men and women coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan feel like they are not being treated like adults after putting ther lives on the line, even if volunteered.

Calvin · 04-13-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

No, I do not agree lowering it to middle school. My point is that at 18 years old, we are legally adults...ok that means we, at 18, are responsible for ourselves and are capable of making our own decisions without parental control.

What I am saying that the maturity level really vaires with each person not based solely on age. There are some 18 years olds who are more mature than some 21 years old but yet, the immature 21 year olds have the priviledge to drink?

I am just playing Devil's advocate but in my real opinion, I dont think there is a huge maturity difference between 18 and 21 years old. At least it wasnt for me.

well said

Chase · 04-13-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My point is that at 18 years old, we are legally adults....

I realize that's the case. Now. But my point is that number 18 is totally arbitrary. It is and has been moved up and down throughout history. That's why I referenced Greek law.

My wife and I weren't legal adults for drinking or voting until we were 21, even though married when I was 17 and she was all of 16. The next year, I was serving in the army, and we were living on our own in Germany.

I've seen the age for drinking go up and down, changing like a Central American flag.

That doesn't make for logical argument, especially since we all freely admit maturity is relative.

Anyway, I see by your photo you're not anywhere close to being old enough to drink or vote, heh heh.

lilitalia89 · 04-13-2008, 11:14 PM

Here in canada most provinces have 19 as the legal drinking age and a few including quebec has 18. You can get your learners driving permit at 16 and then your license at 17 and then full privileged (this is ontario licensing its a 3 parter) driving meaning u can drive at nite with people in the car past a certain time and u may have a certain blood alcohol level. To vote and be a legal person is 18. but get this..my friend went to best buy to buy the game Assasins Creed and they said you have to be 25 to buy it!!!! figure that one out!!! lmao

GarnetTigerMom · 04-13-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

When I was a barely 18-year-old soldier, we 'cruits could drink the 3.2 beer at specified places when off duty on post and at fire bases. It was not okay off post or within six hours of going on duty.

I don't know how fair it was then or is now, but young military personnel are usually under closer supervision than civilian kids the same age.

For those reasons -- tighter supervision, accountability, and being under orders with harsh consequences for disobeying -- it's my considered opinion that just because some are old enough to serve in the military does not mean all under 21 are old enough, seasoned enough, experienced enough, wise enough to drink alcohol without the restrictions I mentioned

Or vote for that matter. The ancient Greeks had the right idea, no one could vote until having served in the military and having reached the age of 33.

Wow, you know what? that is almost extacly what my dad said to me long ago when I ask him about young military drinking age. Cuz my dad used to served in the military.

JClarke · 04-14-2008, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilitalia89

Here in canada most provinces have 19 as the legal drinking age and a few including quebec has 18. You can get your learners driving permit at 16 and then your license at 17 and then full privileged (this is ontario licensing its a 3 parter) driving meaning u can drive at nite with people in the car past a certain time and u may have a certain blood alcohol level. To vote and be a legal person is 18. but get this..my friend went to best buy to buy the game Assasins Creed and they said you have to be 25 to buy it!!!! figure that one out!!! lmao

25? Impossible.

Boult · 04-14-2008, 12:49 AM

This is the article from last year
ABC News: Should the Legal Drinking Age Be 18?

Quote:

Debate Echoes Vietnam-Era Debate Over Drinking Age

McCardell hasn't gotten a lot of support thus far. A July Gallup poll suggests 77 percent of Americans would oppose a federal law to lower the drinking age.

The debate over the national drinking age echos the debate during the 1970s, when men as young as 18 years old were conscripted to fight in the Vietnam War but were not allowed to drink.

During that decade, 29 states lowered their drinking age to 18, 19 or 20. However, in the 1980s the debate over drinking centered on drunken drivers.

In 1984, the federal government passed a law that tied federal highway funds to raising the drinking age to 21.

By 1988, almost every state had raised its drinking age to 21, something McCardell said was done without adequate public debate or education about the effects of alcohol.

I remember Georgia has been raising the drinking age slowly and raised to 21 by the deadline just because GA didn't need lots of Road funds. I remember that because I was able to continue going to bars every year while I can't in other state like NY till I am already 21.

After they have raised the age to 21, I saw more problems and more "busts" at NTID than before. It also killed the famous "Cellar" after NY raised to 21 right away.

Boult · 04-14-2008, 12:51 AM

Legislative Analysis for the National Minimum Drinking Age Act

Chase · 04-14-2008, 01:30 AM

Um . . . I think I started us off topic, and the last few posts, except for GTM's, has gone way off from the drinking age. I think the other age-related commnets would make interesting threads of their own, but let's get back on topic. Boult's posts also on topic, but were posted while I was writing.
According to a friend who told me about actuarial analyses conducted by New York Life Insurance Company, the causes of deaths to persons 16 through 20 (at least half due to auto accidents, but other risk behaviors are included) involve poor judgment worsened by alcohol or drug impairment. Those statistics were formerly male dominated, but recently young women are showing similar recklessness.

This poor judgment tapers off before age 25 and better judgment statistically lasts to age 55 when the ability to judge and act quickly begins to worsen. Once more, alcohol and/or drug impairment (medications) are significangt culprits.

If we followed NYL’s nutshell indications, we shouldn’t let people drink until they’re 25 and cut ‘em off at 55.

jazzy · 04-14-2008, 01:40 AM

I think 18 and 21 are no difference. They should be allow to drink at 18.

Liebling:-))) · 04-14-2008, 02:37 AM

I posted a lot in 2 different debate threads.

http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates...ge-change.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/parenting/414...ol-home-3.html

Liebling:-))) · 04-14-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

They should lower the drinking age to 18 for the general population.

Drinking is a major issue in college because a lot of students like to be "bad" when they break the rule and drink. They feel "cool" from doing it.

By lowering the drinking age to 18, they are no longer "bad" because it's okay for them to drink. That will put it under control.

If they're old enough to leave home, old enough to join the military, old enough to have sex, old enough to do anything... then they should be old enough to drink!

Exactly!!!

Everything is legal at 18 except drink make no sense to me. If 18 is a legal age which mean drink is also including as well.

Can you image when 21 years old Groom want to cheer up with a glass of champagne to his 20 years old Bride?

It make also no sense that it's legal for US teens (from 15 years old) to have a driving liescne.???

http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates...s-license.html

***Jolie77*** · 04-14-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What I am saying that the maturity level really vaires with each person not based solely on age. There are some 18 years olds who are more mature than some 21 years old but yet, the immature 21 year olds have the priviledge to drink?

Agreed.

There are some people who have a high tolerance of alcohol while some people don't have much of a tolerance for alcohol. I know tolerance doesn't come in play on this subject but as for maturity, it all comes down to use the best judgment of your ability. For some, they haven't put it up to use.

04-13-2008, 08:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
*Jolie77* Truth does not blush. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The Bluegrass State Posts: 3,917	21's a Bust? Seven States Debate Lowering Drinking Age There is an ongoing debate whether to keep the drinking age at 21 or lower it down to 18 for either military personnel or for the general population. Kentucky, South Carolina and Wisconsin are proposing the drinking age to be lowered to 18 just for the military personnel while Missouri, South Dakota, Vermont and Minnesota are considering the drinking age to be lowered for the general population. Is it for the military rights or for the general population drinking age rights? Is it fair for the military personnel to be able to get a beer or two while the general population under 21 can't get it? Please discuss. Seven states consider lower drinking ages - UPI.com ABC News: 21's a Bust? States Debate Drinking Age __________________

04-13-2008, 09:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 25,819	They should lower the drinking age to 18 for the general population. Drinking is a major issue in college because a lot of students like to be "bad" when they break the rule and drink. They feel "cool" from doing it. By lowering the drinking age to 18, they are no longer "bad" because it's okay for them to drink. That will put it under control. If they're old enough to leave home, old enough to join the military, old enough to have sex, old enough to do anything... then they should be old enough to drink! __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

04-13-2008, 09:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
JClarke Yep, that's me ;) Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coming to America Posts: 8,463 Blog Entries: 3	There is plenty of debates not to lower or can lower, but Vampy's opinion's right. Down here in Australia, the legal age of drinking is 18, not 21, but they wanted to upper the age limit on driving! __________________

04-13-2008, 09:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo slotting Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Couve Wa Posts: 4,288	Well I think they should lower the legal age for those drinkers who don't drive. I think the law should give people two option, get a car or keep the right to drink. __________________ In memory of Ruby, see my picture album for more detail.

04-13-2008, 11:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
lilitalia89 Lil Italian/Jamaican Chic Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 678	Here in canada most provinces have 19 as the legal drinking age and a few including quebec has 18. You can get your learners driving permit at 16 and then your license at 17 and then full privileged (this is ontario licensing its a 3 parter) driving meaning u can drive at nite with people in the car past a certain time and u may have a certain blood alcohol level. To vote and be a legal person is 18. but get this..my friend went to best buy to buy the game Assasins Creed and they said you have to be 25 to buy it!!!! figure that one out!!! lmao __________________ My Blog http://myhohlife.blogspot.com/ *Phonak Una* Never bend your head. Hold it high. Look the world straight in the eye. Helen Keller Alicia

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04-13-2008, 09:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chase Retired on ex-mod pension Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 2,066	When I was a barely 18-year-old soldier, we 'cruits could drink the 3.2 beer at specified places when off duty on post and at fire bases. It was not okay off post or within six hours of going on duty. I don't know how fair it was then or is now, but young military personnel are usually under closer supervision than civilian kids the same age. For those reasons -- tighter supervision, accountability, and being under orders with harsh consequences for disobeying -- it's my considered opinion that just because some are old enough to serve in the military does not mean all under 21 are old enough, seasoned enough, experienced enough, wise enough to drink alcohol without the restrictions I mentioned Or vote for that matter. The ancient Greeks had the right idea, no one could vote until having served in the military and having reached the age of 33.

04-13-2008, 09:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cowpuppy Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On The Road Again Posts: 375	One of the issues becomes that being of legal age means being able to drink in the bars. As this usually requires driving to and then from the bar while hammered. Issue is that those between 18 and 21 haven't really learned to drink responsilby at all. Teh get into this guzzling crowds with music and dance and go all out. One idea may be legalize it at 18 but not for drinking in bar or lounge establishments until 21. Minnesota was legal age of 19 but only for 3.2 beer. There were bars called Three-Two bars which only served the weaker beer and no hard booze. Off-sale only 3.2. Seemed fair enough to me. They could always get stronger beer now and then. I remember during Vietnam War this issue came up. At the time it was military draft and it seemed so unjust to draft men to go to combat and yet they couldn't buy a damn beer. I'm sure these young men and women coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan feel like they are not being treated like adults after putting ther lives on the line, even if volunteered.

04-14-2008, 01:30 AM	#18 (permalink)
Chase Retired on ex-mod pension Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 2,066	Um . . . I think I started us off topic, and the last few posts, except for GTM's, has gone way off from the drinking age. I think the other age-related commnets would make interesting threads of their own, but let's get back on topic. Boult's posts also on topic, but were posted while I was writing. According to a friend who told me about actuarial analyses conducted by New York Life Insurance Company, the causes of deaths to persons 16 through 20 (at least half due to auto accidents, but other risk behaviors are included) involve poor judgment worsened by alcohol or drug impairment. Those statistics were formerly male dominated, but recently young women are showing similar recklessness. This poor judgment tapers off before age 25 and better judgment statistically lasts to age 55 when the ability to judge and act quickly begins to worsen. Once more, alcohol and/or drug impairment (medications) are significangt culprits. If we followed NYL’s nutshell indications, we shouldn’t let people drink until they’re 25 and cut ‘em off at 55. Last edited by Chase; 04-14-2008 at 01:35 AM. Reason: Added Boult's post to on-topic list

04-14-2008, 01:40 AM	#19 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,924	I think 18 and 21 are no difference. They should be allow to drink at 18. __________________

04-14-2008, 02:37 AM	#20 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) me in Springfield, IL '07 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,001	I posted a lot in 2 different debate threads. http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates...ge-change.html http://www.alldeaf.com/parenting/414...ol-home-3.html __________________ sniffing you

04-14-2008, 09:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
jillio Registered User