The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

Bottesini said:
Little kid you got there. It was like that in the olden times for lots of us. DD is right.

My joy is there is now a dhh magnet program so children like my granddaughter won't be all alone and the will be ASL>
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I fully understand it was like that in the olden times, that's partially why the whole LRE came about. The impression I got was that DD is talking about the times we are living in now. It also wasn't a contentious question, I'm genuinely curious if she has been encountering that where she lives. If that's the case, parents need to stand up and do something.
 
CSign said:
I fully understand it was like that in the olden times, that's partially why the whole LRE came about. The impression I got was that DD is talking about the times we are living in now. It also wasn't a contentious question, I'm genuinely curious if she has been encountering that where she lives. If that's the case, parents need to stand up and do something.
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CSign said:
P.S. Your granddaughter is very lucky!!
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I see. I think she had a really bad time.

And thanks about my granddaughter.
 
CSign said:
It's interesting how in some threads individuals promote the schools for the deaf, and shun the mainstream educational placement. Yet in another thread imply/state that a school for the deaf is not appropriate for a deaf student.

I think that most of us can agree that there is no one right solution/placement for all deaf/HH students. It depends on extenuating circumstances.

Deafdyke- you have stated many times that deaf/HH students are thrown into the resource room/ Sp Ed classes. I'm curious if you're basing this on factual information, or if you've just encountered some individuals who experienced that?

Most of the DHH students I know who are mainstreamed have additional support and accomodations in the classroom. They are general education classes rather than "special ed". They only go to the resource room if they have areas where they are behind. My son is fully mainstreamed with an interpreter, and the resource specialist is really just the case manager.

It would be interesting to see a study on placements of DHH students, variables and the end result of such placements.

There are numerous studies done on placement for DHH students. Google is your friend. I would use Google Scholar as a starting point.

I think mainstreaming can be an appropriate environment for some, but I would certainly agree there are areas of need that are not addressed in such a setting.
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If you are referring to the DS kid in the thread you started in Deaf Ed, you have completely misrepresented opinion.

There are numerous studies done on placement for DHH students. Google is your friend. I would start with Google Scholar, and stick to peer reviewed studies.
 
Deafdyke- you have stated many times that deaf/HH students are thrown into the resource room/ Sp Ed classes. I'm curious if you're basing this on factual information, or if you've just encountered some individuals who experienced that?

Most of the DHH students I know who are mainstreamed have additional support and accomodations in the classroom. They are general education classes rather than "special ed". They only go to the resource room if they have areas where they are behind. My son is fully mainstreamed with an interpreter, and the resource specialist is really just the case manager.

It would be interesting to see a study on placements of DHH students, variables and the end result of such placements.

I think mainstreaming can be an appropriate environment for some, but I would certainly agree there are areas of need that are not addressed in such a setting.
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First of all, thanks jillo!
CSign, it can and does vary, and can change over time. I know kids who are included in regular classes with 'terps or other accomondations. And then there are a lot of kids who are behind....but not behind enough to be sent to deaf school or deaf program. So they are put in the Resource Room b/c there's really no place else for them. You have to understand, that a lot of parents tend to not really know about deaf ed or get shoehorned into general early intervention preschools (like Headstart or Easter Seals) Placement can often change, especially as work gets a lot harder. It's common for kids to do OK, early on but then start having major issues around third or fourth grade. Did you know back just ten years ago, it wasn't that unusual for oral kids to transfer to Clarke/CID/St. Joeseph's and the other programs for fourth grade/middle school?
I think too......that kids who are graduates of formal programs (like the one that your kid attended) may be a bit more prepared for an inclusive education.....but not all dhh kids are like that unforutnatly.
 
Not to mention, that if a kid doesn't do well with minimal accomondations, they get thrown into and lumped in with the LD resource room kids.
That happened to ME....and happened to many many other kids. Kids are still falling through the cracks, and you really have to be in the know to take advantage of the system.
Trust me... ALL public school systems generally want to do is get the money that disabled kids bring to the system They generally don't give a crap over how good of an education dhh kids get.
They WILL and can get away with minimal accomondations approach....and it really does seem to be a multi factoral thing. Like even the special educators do not get more then a day of learning about low incidence disabilties in their college courses.....AND I mean the problem is.......when dhh kids need TOD services and speech and deaf skill stuff, they usually get something like only 15 mintues of "deaf skills/time with a TOD.
I have a lot of friends who are teachers (went to a state teacherers college) and they say the same things happen to dhh (or other low incidence disablity kids) as when I was in school...I am active on a ton of dhh listservs .....the same old stuff and situions happen.
 
deafdyke said:
First of all, thanks jillo!
CSign, it can and does vary, and can change over time. I know kids who are included in regular classes with 'terps or other accomondations. And then there are a lot of kids who are behind....but not behind enough to be sent to deaf school or deaf program. So they are put in the Resource Room b/c there's really no place else for them. You have to understand, that a lot of parents tend to not really know about deaf ed or get shoehorned into general early intervention preschools (like Headstart or Easter Seals) Placement can often change, especially as work gets a lot harder. It's common for kids to do OK, early on but then start having major issues around third or fourth grade. Did you know back just ten years ago, it wasn't that unusual for oral kids to transfer to Clarke/CID/St. Joeseph's and the other programs for fourth grade/middle school?
I think too......that kids who are graduates of formal programs (like the one that your kid attended) may be a bit more prepared for an inclusive education.....but not all dhh kids are like that unforutnatly.
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You're welcome!:wave:
 
How about posting some cites jillo so we can debate further?
Do you agree with me that a lot of parents simply aren't aware of the Deaf specific educational resources out there? Or they're still laboring under the assumption that Deaf Schools and Deaf ed is just for profound voice off deafies. It does seem like a lot of people who are in adminstration may still be laboring under the assumption that Deaf Schools or programs are worse then they are, or are like they were in the early 80's, when mainsteaming pretty much emptied the Deaf Schools of "just deaf" kids.
I really do think that if deaf programs and schools advertised themselves as a) being hoh friendly and b) oral deaf friendly.....but can learn ASL as a second language, that enrollement would be BOOMING at Deaf Schools. Especially since now there's really no where for the oral deaf older kids to attend (except for Clarke) if they don't live in the area.....You know, I'd be a LOT more impressed with oral deafness if they did not treat oral education as the be all and end all. Like kids are doing well orally, but then they hit the fourth grade glass ceiling.....I would love it if most of them were nudged towards Deaf Ed, like deaf programs or even deaf schools!
The trouble is that traditionally TODs have been taught that hoh kids don't "need" ASL or deaf ed. Yet, our acheivement gap is still really behind hearing kids!
It's like Braille. Fifty years ago, Braille was taught to fifty percent of blind kids. Now it has shrunk to 10%. Blind eductors basicly pushed books on tape and large print The kicker.....turns out that unemployment is super high among blind and low vision people....but of those who are employed, virtually ALL are Braille literate. Sound familiar?
 
deafdyke said:
How about posting some cites jillo so we can debate further?
Do you agree with me that a lot of parents simply aren't aware of the Deaf specific educational resources out there? Or they're still laboring under the assumption that Deaf Schools and Deaf ed is just for profound voice off deafies. It does seem like a lot of people who are in adminstration may still be laboring under the assumption that Deaf Schools or programs are worse then they are, or are like they were in the early 80's, when mainsteaming pretty much emptied the Deaf Schools of "just deaf" kids.
I really do think that if deaf programs and schools advertised themselves as a) being hoh friendly and b) oral deaf friendly.....but can learn ASL as a second language, that enrollement would be BOOMING at Deaf Schools. Especially since now there's really no where for the oral deaf older kids to attend (except for Clarke) if they don't live in the area.....You know, I'd be a LOT more impressed with oral deafness if they did not treat oral education as the be all and end all. Like kids are doing well orally, but then they hit the fourth grade glass ceiling.....I would love it if most of them were nudged towards Deaf Ed, like deaf programs or even deaf schools!
The trouble is that traditionally TODs have been taught that hoh kids don't "need" ASL or deaf ed. Yet, our acheivement gap is still really behind hearing kids!
It's like Braille. Fifty years ago, Braille was taught to fifty percent of blind kids. Now it has shrunk to 10%. Blind eductors basicly pushed books on tape and large print The kicker.....turns out that unemployment is super high among blind and low vision people....but of those who are employed, virtually ALL are Braille literate. Sound familiar?
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I agree with you completely regarding the parents beliefs and attitudes and lack of knowledge regarding not just what is available, but the ways in which it would be a tremendous benefit to their own child. Far too often, the priority is mode of language, not quality of education.

What kind of articles would you like me to cite?
 
deafdyke said:
The trouble is that traditionally TODs have been taught that hoh kids don't "need" ASL or deaf ed. Yet, our acheivement gap is still really behind hearing kids!
It's like Braille. Fifty years ago, Braille was taught to fifty percent of blind kids. Now it has shrunk to 10%. Blind eductors basicly pushed books on tape and large print The kicker.....turns out that unemployment is super high among blind and low vision people....but of those who are employed, virtually ALL are Braille literate. Sound familiar?
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This is why I push homeschooling if you because then theres no "professionals" but also no "funding"(whats wrong with a slate and styles) and there are ace course in braille

I have just brought the deaf studies book(for mainstream teachers) through kelston
 
On the other hand inmate, homeschooling a kid with a low incidence disabilty is going to be very hard, as most parents do not have the training to teach blindness or deafness skills...or even learning disabilties or stuff like that.
 
deafdyke said:
On the other hand inmate, homeschooling a kid with a low incidence disabilty is going to be very hard, as most parents do not have the training to teach blindness or deafness skills...or even learning disabilties or stuff like that.
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mine didnt and dont

There are great Hadley courses for blindness skills

There are night courses in nzsl and books on deaf culture
 
deafdyke said:
On the other hand inmate, homeschooling a kid with a low incidence disabilty is going to be very hard, as most parents do not have the training to teach blindness or deafness skills...or even learning disabilties or stuff like that.
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I can totally agree with this statement. I homeschooled both kids and my daughter has various learning disabilities. It was like I had to go to school for myself doing all kinds of research to learn how to teach her. She is not a textbook case and we have to change and adapt each year, but it was well worth it and I wouldn't trade it for anything. This for the child that the school system said was "unteachable". Ha!!
 
Alright, you have a point. That times could be different nowadays
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Hoh, things ARE different. I think too that you don't understand that if a kid isn't a superstar, they have to deal with the attitude that "oh they're one of those sped kids"
You had a great experiance mainstreaming, but what I think you don't understand is that you had a very extraordinary experiance. Yes, it's proof that when all the pieces of the mainstream puzzle are right, a kid can do very well. But mainstreaming is not right for everyone....and even hoh kids can benifit strongly from going to Deaf School or Deaf program! (and you were horrfied when you found out that there were hoh kids at deaf schools/programs. All I can say, is that if you were horrifed at that, I don't think you really have a realistic idea of what mainstreaming is like for a lot of dhh kids.
agree with you completely regarding the parents beliefs and attitudes and lack of knowledge regarding not just what is available, but the ways in which it would be a tremendous benefit to their own child. Far too often, the priority is mode of language, not quality of education.

What kind of articles would you like me to cite?
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Tell me about it. I do have to say that there are THOSE types of parents....you know, the ones who scream and fight that their kid will NEVER EVER learn ASL, and all they need is to be put in an inclusive classroom, where they will end up going to a highly selective college and be popular and have NO problems (and granted you have a lot of those parents with all sorts of disabilties, especially mental disabilty ...ahhhh god) but I think the majority of parents of dhh kids are unaware of the resources and options out there. They are basicly like my parents were with me in the 80's and 90's...figuring that deaf schools are only for voice off kids, or if a kid knows English they don't "need" ASL.
I think too it's the teachers and administrators who contribuate to the myth as well. TODs seem to love pushing the myth that hoh kids shouldn't learn ASL, and that life should be an eternal speech/language session. Administrators see special schools and think " oh why should we spend all that money on disabled kids? They see big dollar signs and not a lot of benifit coming out the other end. They don't understand that deaf kids get a really good education at Deaf Schools, and alot of them go off to college, or get jobs through networking with the Deaf community.
The articles I'd like you to cite are the ones that say a lot of mainstreamed kids are resource room kids. Maybe some parents who are lurkers (or even active posters) will see those cites, and think " my kid might do better at deaf school or program!
 
There are great Hadley courses for blindness skills

There are night courses in nzsl and books on deaf cultur
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Yeah but still doesn't even begin to compare to attending a Deaf or blind school or program or getting services from a TOD or TOB. It's a highly specialized area you know. Besides what you're doing isn't homeschooling, it's self directed learning. I do agree that a co op approach with a lot of other dhh kids or a lot of other blind/low vision kids or nereologically disabled kids would work, but then again that population is very small in the homeschool world.
It was like I had to go to school for myself doing all kinds of research to learn how to teach her. She is not a textbook case and we have to change and adapt each year, but it was well worth it and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
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Agreed. And you were just working with a kid with a severe LD/ significent nereological issues. It would have been super hard to be a defacto TOD or TOB.
 
deafdyke said:
Hoh, things ARE different. I think too that you don't understand that if a kid isn't a superstar, they have to deal with the attitude that "oh they're one of those sped kids"
You had a great experiance mainstreaming, but what I think you don't understand is that you had a very extraordinary experiance. Yes, it's proof that when all the pieces of the mainstream puzzle are right, a kid can do very well. But mainstreaming is not right for everyone....and even hoh kids can benifit strongly from going to Deaf School or Deaf program! (and you were horrfied when you found out that there were hoh kids at deaf schools/programs. All I can say, is that if you were horrifed at that, I don't think you really have a realistic idea of what mainstreaming is like for a lot of dhh kids.
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Sure, I understand that mainstreaming isn't for all deaf people. And that's why I keep saying that some of the schools for the deaf should remain open for those that needs or wants it.

I know you meant well but I wouldn't call myself a superstar. Sure, I may have been born with some innate skills. But like I said before, some of the credit goes to the schools, the placement, the teachers, the environment, my mother, etc. I also happen to have grown up in a district that was very academically oriented, so that was another plus.

Horrified? Not even remotely close. I'm actually more well-rounded in this regard than some people think or realize. I used to belong to a teen club for the deaf that consisted of both the deaf and Deaf.

And if you think you're helping some of the deaf and hoh kids out there, then good for you!
 
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