The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

[dogmom]

am glad you personally had a good experience, Hohtopics.
My Resource Room experience as someone in Ex Ed was not good at all, though I had good teachers from a "professional" standpoint, for the most part. My mom was also very active in my school and with PTA on local and national levels.

Certainly parental participation is significant but I do think school environment is soooo important for the success too. Part of that success is being comfortable with and loving of oneself, so the paths that leads to that may have various significant factors for different people. Some of those factors can be very culturally specific.

I haven't attended any school reunions, though. Do you meet many previous classmates there or is it often the same crowd at them?

 

[jillio]

One never knows what benefit they may have received unless they actually were in the position for a comparison.

 

[dogmom]

aah, I do see what you mean there, Jillio-

 

[Hohtopics]

am glad you personally had a good experience, Hohtopics.
My Resource Room experience as someone in Ex Ed was not good at all, though I had good teachers from a "professional" standpoint, for the most part. My mom was also very active in my school and with PTA on local and national levels.

Certainly parental participation is significant but I do think school environment is soooo important for the success too. Part of that success is being comfortable with and loving of oneself, so the paths that leads to that may have various significant factors for different people. Some of those factors can be very culturally specific.

I haven't attended any school reunions, though. Do you meet many previous classmates there or is it often the same crowd at them?

Yes, that was kind of my point, the "school environment". Cause if I had been placed in the regular class, it's possible I wouldn't have enjoyed the experience as much.

And I did sometime get the respect from my classmates in a "he's doing well in school in spite of his deafness" sense. Whereas its possible that the students in the regular classes would have thought more along the lines of "There's this deaf guy, let's pick on him..."? Who knows?

And even when I did sometime have some friction with my classmates, it usually didn't have anything to do with my hearing loss. It was usually just some typical teenagers having ego clashes with one another, especially at the junior high level (i.e. we were younger then).

I also understand that some of the deaf are a little concerned about the state of some of the deaf schools. And would like to keep them open as a "fall back on" in case some find the mainstreaming experience too difficult. And do wish them the best of luck!

 

[Hohtopics]

Certainly parental participation is significant but I do think school environment is soooo important for the success too. Part of that success is being comfortable with and loving of oneself, so the paths that leads to that may have various significant factors for different people. Some of those factors can be very culturally specific.

Another good question is can the mainstreaming experience also be affected from its location, demographics, the people it's surrounded with, etc?

For instance what if there are two different deaf students with a similar family, background, hearing loss range, communication method or preference, personality type, educational level and so forth.

Yet one goes mainstreaming to a school whose students, teachers and environment enable the student to thrive or fit in more while the other one doesn't?

 

[Hohtopics]

I haven't attended any school reunions, though. Do you meet many previous classmates there or is it often the same crowd at them?

There are different type of reunions. Usually there are just some informal ones held by a small group of classmates at a restaurant or bar. And that it's easier to have these type of reunions now with the internet and all.

And that there are also big, major ones given by professional reunion companies, usually held at a ballroom in an hotel or something. And that they are usually supposedly based on a "milestone", like the class' 10th or 20th, etc.

I've been to several mini-reunions and also a couple of big ones and enjoyed them. The environment is usually light and fun, whereas there's sometime also dancing and good food. And that we sometime also bring old pictures, yearbooks and so forth.

 

[shel90]

One never knows what benefit they may have received unless they actually were in the position for a comparison.

It was so true for me. Before I got involved with the Deaf community, I believed that mainstreaming was better than Deaf schools. Little did I know then.

 

[deafdyke]

To tell you the truth, not really. Cause I felt I was able to develop my own identity this way without being lumped with the others.

On the other hand, I'm thinking it might have been a good experiance b/c while you might have not desperatly needed a formal program, you might have benifited from attending the school where it was housed b/c then that way you wouldn't have had to fight so hard for things like basic accomondations etc. See what I mean? You wouldn't nessarily have been lumped in with the other kids....and that quite frankly is very VERY offensive. Deaf kids ARE smart. Deaf programs are NOT like Resource Rooms. Some of them can be really good...like the exact same stuff that is taught in hearing classes but they use ASL and have auditory training and all sorts of other dhh ed stuff. Things have changed a hell of a lot since you were in school you know.
On the other hand, you say you wore body worns until you were 15. That means that you were prolly in school around the time that "Abraham Lincoln was a tall man. Tall." was considered the norm of what could be taught to oral 8th graders at Clarke/CID/St. Josephs."
You are old.....things have changed a lot.

 

[Hohtopics]

See what I mean? You wouldn't nessarily have been lumped in with the other kids....and that quite frankly is very VERY offensive. Deaf kids ARE smart. Deaf programs are NOT like Resource Rooms. Some of them can be really good...like the exact same stuff that is taught in hearing classes but they use ASL and have auditory training and all sorts of other dhh ed stuff. Things have changed a hell of a lot since you were in school you know.

First, I didn't say anything about the Deaf. I simply said the following:

To tell you the truth, not really. Cause I felt I was able to develop my own identity this way without being lumped with the others. However, I still sometime saw some deaf friends on weekends and so forth. To each, his or her own.

Sure, I know that some of the Deaf are smart. I know some of them myself and could also see it in the forum.

Even when I was going to high school, I knew some of the Deaf. They just didn't go to my school, that's all.

On the other hand, I'm thinking it might have been a good experiance b/c while you might have not desperatly needed a formal program, you might have benifited from attending the school where it was housed b/c then that way you wouldn't have had to fight so hard for things like basic accomondations etc. See what I mean?

On the other hand, you say you wore body worns until you were 15. That means that you were prolly in school around the time that "Abraham Lincoln was a tall man. Tall." was considered the norm of what could be taught to oral 8th graders at Clarke/CID/St. Josephs."
You are old.....things have changed a lot.

If anything, it could actually possibly even be a little easier now cause deaf children are hearing better now than they did back then. Even the BTE's weren't as powerful back then as they are now.

Listen, you're always saying "one shoe size does not fit all". Then why don't you be a little open to the possibility that there are simply some deaf people out there that were glad they took the mainstreaming route. I wasn't the only one, I do know of some others. Cause I'm still friends with some of them to this day.

And I also understand that some of you want to keep schools for the deaf open, not only as a "fall back on" in case some of the deaf find the mainstreaming route too difficult but also that there may also be some families that would want to simply send their deaf kids directly to a deaf school without first trying the mainstreaming route.

As long it's "one shoe size does not fit all"...

 

[posts from hell]

First, I didn't say anything about the Deaf. I simply said the following:



Sure, I know that some of the Deaf are smart. I know some of them myself and could also see it in the forum.

Even when I was going to high school, I knew some of the Deaf. They just didn't go to my school, that's all.


If anything, it could actually possibly even be a little easier now cause deaf children are hearing better now than they did back then. Even the BTE's weren't as powerful back then as they are now.

Listen, you're always saying "one shoe size does not fit all". Then why don't you be a little open to the possibility that there are simply some deaf people out there that were glad they took the mainstreaming route. I wasn't the only one, I do know of some others. Cause I'm still friends with some of them to this day.

And I also understand that some of you want to keep schools for the deaf open, not only as a "fall back on" in case some of the deaf find the mainstreaming route too difficult but also that there may also be some families that would want to simply send their deaf kids directly to a deaf school without first trying the mainstreaming route.

As long it's "one shoe size does not fit all"...

Just pointing out the views you have in this post.

 

[jillio]

Just pointing out the views you have in this post.

Shall I say the "A" word?:P

 

[Hohtopics]

Just pointing out the views you have in this post.

Perhaps, do you care to elaborate on it?

 

[posts from hell]

Perhaps, do you care to elaborate on it?

Always answering with questions. I am starting to think you're in a MAJOR denial. I wonder what you're hiding. It's painfully obvious.

Right now I don't have a degree of respect for you. You constantly try to knock the "Deaf" thing down.

From what we've seen; we respect you and leave your decisions alone. You should do the same. I wonder what caused you to look at the Deaf community in disdain.

Hell, without the Deaf community, you wouldn't have captions, interpreters, and maybe even the CI, etc.

I think you should start respecting what other people do/decide/are. That post where you called out people "wannabes" "He's the only Deaf person on the forum", etc... Was totally disrespectful.

News flash, I am NOT the only Deaf person on the forum. There are a lot. They are smarter than me, they don't waste their time on the likes of you.

I am starting to get annoyed by the fact in some people's views here that I am the sole representative of the "Deaf community." I am a nobody. I voice out my opinions. I welcome disagreements. But when a person starts to put others down...... Its when the gloves comes off. EVERYONE in this forum is a representative of the Deaf community.

The last few days - you have been spewing nothing but venom. This is the very reason you are target. All you need to do is take a glance at the post I pointed out recently to see how you look at the other Deaf people out there.

Do I have to defend that there are MANY successful Deaf people out there in all calibers, regardless of their "hearing levels and equipment used"? Do I have to point out that you have emotionally affected people on this forum in a negative way? I sure hope not.

Remember; when you look down at the Deaf community - you're also looking down at yourself. Improvement only comes from within, and I hope you get that fixed.

There's my elaboration.

 

[posts from hell]

And to further clarify my opinion, note the usage of the word "my"...

I use the term "Deaf" for everyone. This is the only way we will get representation.

Yes, even Hohtopics is included in this definition.

 

[Hohtopics]

Always answering with questions. I am starting to think you're in a MAJOR denial. I wonder what you're hiding. It's painfully obvious.

Right now I don't have a degree of respect for you. You constantly try to knock the "Deaf" thing down.

Supposedly, I say mainstreaming was a good experience for me. Is that knocking the "Deaf" thing down?

And when I said that I did make a good use of environmental sounds when wearing hearing aids, is that also knocking the "Deaf" thing down?

I even told some of the Deaf that are toying whether or not they should get a CI or HA, to try the HA's first.

From what we've seen; we respect you and leave your decisions alone. You should do the same. I wonder what caused you to look at the Deaf community in disdain.

I think some of the Deaf are in denial that it's a two way street. That they continue to act like it's only okay for the Deaf to voice their thoughts or opinions and it isn't for the deaf. Keep in mind that the deaf have just as much right to state their thoughts and opinions as the Deaf do. And that the deaf also have their own feelings or needs just like the way the Deaf do.

I think you should start respecting what other people do/decide/are. That post where you called out people "wannabes" "He's the only Deaf person on the forum", etc... Was totally disrespectful.

Perhaps, I did get a little carried away calling that particular member a wannabe and did apologize to her. But it was a constructive point that some that are shouting the loudest that this should be an "all-Deaf" forum are technically speaking not even Deaf themselves. Starting with Jillio herself. You could twist it all you want, saying she's supposedly sympathetic towards the Deaf and all that. But the bottom line is that I'm deaf, she's not...

I am starting to get annoyed by the fact in some people's views here that I am the sole representative of the "Deaf community." I am a nobody. I voice out my opinions. I welcome disagreements. But when a person starts to put others down...... Its when the gloves comes off. EVERYONE in this forum is a representative of the Deaf community.

That if you look carefully, I'm actually friends with and get along with some of the Deaf right here in the forum, Bottesini is one of them.

Do I have to defend that there are MANY successful Deaf people out there in all calibers, regardless of their "hearing levels and equipment used"? Do I have to point out that you have emotionally affected people on this forum in a negative way? I sure hope not.

No, you don't. Like I said, I even know some of them myself. But of course, you had to perceive it the wrong way.

Remember; when you look down at the Deaf community - you're also looking down at yourself. Improvement only comes from within, and I hope you get that fixed.

There's my elaboration.

And it's okay for you to make statements like "I see you have no use for sounds". Can't have it both ways! ;-)

And if you look carefully, it's you that's usually responding to my posts. Not the other way around. I usually don't respond to your posts or stay out of it when you're arguing with others.

 

[posts from hell]

Youre in luck. I have to do something now, so I will be back later to reply to this.

BTW; I still don't think you apologized.

 

[deafdyke]

Hohtopics, you're completely missing something. You are old enough to have worn body worn aids until you were fifteen! Times have changed a hell of a lot. Back then the mentality was that "oh mainstreamed kids are SMART!" Now, it's basicly that unless they're academic superstars,, they get lumped into Resource Room/special ed! And yes, I know about the solotaire superstars, but that still doesn't negate the fact that most kids tend to not exactly thrive with a minimal accomodnations approach, in their neighborhood/average school!
I will and do admit that at the time, you were young, solotaire mainstreaming was a good option. I never have said that I think that all dhh kids should attend deaf schools or programs. There are some kids with disabilties who actucally thrive in that sort of setting.

 

[Hohtopics]

Hohtopics, you're completely missing something. You are old enough to have worn body worn aids until you were fifteen! Times have changed a hell of a lot. Back then the mentality was that "oh mainstreamed kids are SMART!" Now, it's basicly that unless they're academic superstars,, they get lumped into Resource Room/special ed! And yes, I know about the solotaire superstars, but that still doesn't negate the fact that most kids tend to not exactly thrive with a minimal accomodnations approach, in their neighborhood/average school!
I will and do admit that at the time, you were young, solotaire mainstreaming was a good option. I never have said that I think that all dhh kids should attend deaf schools or programs. There are some kids with disabilties who actucally thrive in that sort of setting.

Alright, you have a point. That times could be different nowadays.

 

[CSign]

It's interesting how in some threads individuals promote the schools for the deaf, and shun the mainstream educational placement. Yet in another thread imply/state that a school for the deaf is not appropriate for a deaf student.

I think that most of us can agree that there is no one right solution/placement for all deaf/HH students. It depends on extenuating circumstances.

Deafdyke- you have stated many times that deaf/HH students are thrown into the resource room/ Sp Ed classes. I'm curious if you're basing this on factual information, or if you've just encountered some individuals who experienced that?

Most of the DHH students I know who are mainstreamed have additional support and accomodations in the classroom. They are general education classes rather than "special ed". They only go to the resource room if they have areas where they are behind. My son is fully mainstreamed with an interpreter, and the resource specialist is really just the case manager.

It would be interesting to see a study on placements of DHH students, variables and the end result of such placements.

I think mainstreaming can be an appropriate environment for some, but I would certainly agree there are areas of need that are not addressed in such a setting.

 

[Bottesini]

It's interesting how in some threads individuals promote the schools for the deaf, and shun the mainstream educational placement. Yet in another thread imply/state that a school for the deaf is not appropriate for a deaf student.

I think that most of us can agree that there is no one right solution/placement for all deaf/HH students. It depends on extenuating circumstances.

Deafdyke- you have stated many times that deaf/HH students are thrown into the resource room/ Sp Ed classes. I'm curious if you're basing this on factual information, or if you've just encountered some individuals who experienced that?

Most of the DHH students I know who are mainstreamed have additional support and accomodations in the classroom. They are general education classes rather than "special ed". They only go to the resource room if they have areas where they are behind. My son is fully mainstreamed with an interpreter, and the resource specialist is really just the case manager.

It would be interesting to see a study on placements of DHH students, variables and the end result of such placements.

I think mainstreaming can be an appropriate environment for some, but I would certainly agree there are areas of need that are not addressed in such a setting.

Little kid you got there. It was like that in the olden times for lots of us. DD is right.

My joy is there is now a dhh magnet program so children like my granddaughter won't be all alone and the will be ASL>