Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

[faire_jour]

as long the parents don't put them in a vurible (sp???) position of being socially neglected if they happen to have no hearing devices , they can focus speech all they want..

I know know they can lipread or read notes, but most deaf do not like bits and pieces type of conversations which lipreading and notes can be like that. most notes written to me are usually a one sentence note. Many doctors and family members done this to me.

I'm not quite sure what you mean? Do you mean they shouldn't have hearing friends in case they have to take off their hearing devices?

 

[deafgal001]

Do you mean they shouldn't have hearing friends in case they have to take off their hearing devices?

No.

 

[faire_jour]

No.

Can you explain what you did mean?

 

[deafgal001]

I've already explained in this thread. Especially why I advocate ASL.

 

[faire_jour]

I've already explained in this thread. Especially why I advocate ASL.

I mean specifically what you meant in that post. What did you mean by "vulnerable position of being socially neglected if they happen to have no hearing devices"? I understand why you advocate for ASL, but I didn't understand that post.

 

[deafgal001]

I mean specifically what you meant in that post. What did you mean by "not leaving them socially vulnerable if they have to take off their devices"? I understand why you advocate for ASL, but I didn't understand that post.

ahh, I see why you misunderstood me.. you thought I wrote "take off their devices" I didn't write that. I wrote if they didn't have their devices.

 

[GrendelQ]

ahh, I see why you misunderstood me.. you thought I wrote "take off their devices" I didn't write that. I wrote if they didn't have their devices.

Hi Deafgal, do you mean, why set them up to interact with others, with a reliance on a CI or HA if you can't or don't support them by maintaining that CI or HA? I've read several accounts of people here who went without HAs or CIs (finances, troubleshooting, etc.) and their communication suffered as a result.

I think that's a good point. I see it play out with my own daughter -- we've had occasions where her device was inoperable (broken or batteries dead) or not appropriate (underwater, riding a dune buggy). That really showed us a communication gap that we wanted to fill. Similarly, we have had experiences where ASL was not sufficient (while skiing or kayaking, in the car, when facing different directions, with hands full, occupied, or mittened).

I love having two languages that can bridge these gaps.

 

[deafgal001]

Hi Deafgal, do you mean, why set them up to interact with others, with a reliance on a CI or HA if you can't or don't support them by maintaining that CI or HA? I've read several accounts of people here who went without HAs or CIs (finances, troubleshooting, etc.) and their communication suffered as a result.

I think that's a good point. I see it play out with my own daughter -- we've had occasions where her device was inoperable (broken or batteries dead) or not appropriate (underwater, riding a dune buggy). That really showed us a communication gap that we wanted to fill. Similarly, we have had experiences where ASL was not sufficient (while skiing or kayaking, in the car, when facing different directions, with hands full, occupied, or mittened).

I love having two languages that can bridge these gaps.

yes.

 

[jillio]

Absolutely not. All deaf people could benefit from ASL.

Shoot....all hearing people could benefit from it, as well.

 

[jillio]

Many parents of CI implanted kids drop sign in favor of oral only. I've seen that more often then not. I only know of five families who didn't.

You know more families that didn't than I do.

 

[Mountain Man]

I never get that impression. Almost all the parents I see here are very open to ASL.

Hearing parents who register and post at a forum called "AllDeaf.com" are in the minority, unfortunately. I, personally, have encountered the view that teaching sign language to a child will cause developmental delays in other areas, particularly with regards to speech. I know this is bunk, but it's not an uncommon misconception.

Of course the opposite view that only culturally Deaf should know or be allowed to use ASL is similarly bunk. After all the social advances made by the NAD over the years, why would people want to regress and start building walls around themselves again?

----------

I'm talking about if we should stop advocating ASL to hearing parents since they seem to me that they get upset about it. Especially when we don't advocate oral-only. I'm asking HEARING parents if they think it should reserved to culturally deaf only.

No, it shouldn't. ASL is far more natural for someone with limited or no hearing than oral or even variations of signed English. The goal above all else should be the development of expressive language, especially for young children, and for deaf children that generally means sign language. Here's my view: we know that deaf children have access to ASL. This is not something that needs to be pondered over. We don't know if they will ever be able to have access to speech, even with hearing aids and cochlear implants (since even CI doesn't have a 100% success rate). We are not benefiting the child by shielding him from a language he can definitely use and trying to force him to use a language that he may never be able to use. If he can learn to use both, great, but I do think teaching him sign language should be a number one priority.

 

[deafgal001]

<<<<<<Hearing parents who register and post at a forum called "AllDeaf.com" are in the minority, unfortunately. I, personally, have encountered the view that teaching sign language to a child will cause developmental delays in other areas, particularly with regards to speech. I know this is bunk, but it's not an uncommon misconception.

Of course the opposite view that only culturally Deaf should know or be allowed to use ASL is similarly bunk. After all the social advances made by the NAD over the years, why would people want to regress and start building walls around themselves again?>>>>>

not only that, hearing parents are helping build that wall when they make parents feel they have to be fluent in ASL on day one in order for their child to benefit from it (especially when their child can't benefit for CI for whatever reasons to access their language)

 

[GrendelQ]

Here's my view: we know that deaf children have access to ASL. This is not something that needs to be pondered over. We know if they will ever be able to have access to speech, even with hearing aids and cochlear implants (since even CI doesn't have a 100% success rate). We are not benefiting the child by shielding him from a language he can definitely use and trying to force him to use a language that he may never be able to use. If he can learn to use both, great, but I do think teaching him sign language should be a number one priority.

Sadly, we don't know that deaf children have access to ASL. Most don't. Theoretically speaking, the potential is there: most deaf children COULD have access to ASL, but in reality, they don't.

ASL is wonderful -- if you've got it. But for the average deaf child born into a hearing family without ties to Deaf culture, it's not there. It's not available in their homes, it's not available in their communities, it's not available on TV, it's not available in their schools, in stores, in libraries, in bookstores, in the museums, on playgrounds, in airports, at the gym, and so on. Their parents don't know it, their siblings don't know it, grandparents and cousins don't know it, their neighbors don't know it, their teachers, doctors, dentists, etc. don't know ASL.

It's not all around them, the way spoken language is, blasting from radios, wafting from doorways, broadcast to the classroom, flowing all over the dinner table, bouncing across the playground. For the average deaf child from hearing parents, ASL is an hour once a week in a special playgroup of children of various ages they don't see again until the next Monday. It's that very expensive and lovely Signing Time collection from grandma that they LOVE, but doesn't provide grammar or more than a handful of vocabulary. It's a parent who thinks he or she is covering a 3YOs language needs with those 20, maybe 50 signs, instead of 1000 words the child should know at that age.

And you'll blame parents for not finding ways to change all of that. Parents finding ways to make over the language of a home, a family, a community, a town, a school, the environments the child will encounter. But ASL is really not all that accessible to parents either. I've cobbled together a means towards learning ASL for myself, with difficulty, but I'd like to find more options, and I know many other parents who are interested, but don't see how it would be possible. I've asked those who did not grow up with ASL how they learned as adults, for tips, programs. Many who advocate so strongly for ASL and against CIs are not even fluent in ASL themselves. Why is that? Because it's not all that accessible.

I've asked those who did learn ASL as children how their parents integrated it into their lives, their family's means of communicating. Most say, they didn't. One or two say, like PFH, through SEE, and ASL was learned on their own. Faire Jour took enough courses over a year or two to qualify at an interpreter level, joined a deaf church, immersed her family in deaf culture. I'd like to know how wee beastie does it, how Jillio did it, how Rockdrummer does it, how other hearing parents with children using ASL were able to make it happen. But I don't think it's easy, and it's certainly not accessible to a child without extraordinary intervention by parents.

 

[deafgal001]

parents also don't know how to read if it wasn't for school. Historically, They were no shape to teach their children how to read. Sometimes you just need alittle help from someone who have that knowledge.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Shoot....all hearing people could benefit from it, as well.

True, that!

 

[faire_jour]

Anyone going to respond to Grendel's concerns?





<crickets>




No?

 

[deafgal001]

Anyone going to respond to Grendel's concerns?





<crickets>




No?

I just did.

 

[Mountain Man]

Sadly, we don't know that deaf children have access to ASL.

By "access" I mean ability. Deaf children have a natural access to sign language whereas they don't have a natural access to spoken languages.

And since you brought up the topic of ASL integration intthe household, my wife and I made the choice to have a bilingual household. I went to school to learn ASL and am approaching my final year in an interpreting program, my wife plans to take classes when I finish (and in the meantime I'm teaching her as much as I can), and my son is receiving language immersion at our local deaf school. We sign as much as possible at home, though I always feel it's never enough, but my son will not be outsider in his own family. We made the decision to accommodate him rather than "fixing" him to accommodate us.

But ASL is really not all that accessible to parents either. I've cobbled together a means towards learning ASL for myself, with difficulty, but I'd like to find more options, and I know many other parents who are interested, but don't see how it would be possible. I've asked those who did not grow up with ASL how they learned as adults, for tips, programs. Many who advocate so strongly for ASL and against CIs are not even fluent in ASL themselves. Why is that? Because it's not all that accessible.

Oh, give me a break. There are many resources available for learning ASL. For instance, I'm going to college. I'm sure if parents looked around their cities they could find similar programs. Many social services centers for the deaf also host ASL classes, and they're usually inexpensive. Your local deaf school probably has resources. Other options are to contact local interpreting agencies and asking their recommendation. Also, make contact with your local Deaf community and start attending Deaf functions, go to a Deaf church (if one is available in your city), make some Deaf friends and invite them over to your home for the afternoon, etc.

I'm sorry, but claiming that ASL is not "accessible" to parents is BS.

 

[shel90]

Sadly, we don't know that deaf children have access to ASL. Most don't. Theoretically speaking, the potential is there: most deaf children COULD have access to ASL, but in reality, they don't.

ASL is wonderful -- if you've got it. But for the average deaf child born into a hearing family without ties to Deaf culture, it's not there. It's not available in their homes, it's not available in their communities, it's not available on TV, it's not available in their schools, in stores, in libraries, in bookstores, in the museums, on playgrounds, in airports, at the gym, and so on. Their parents don't know it, their siblings don't know it, grandparents and cousins don't know it, their neighbors don't know it, their teachers, doctors, dentists, etc. don't know ASL.

It's not all around them, the way spoken language is, blasting from radios, wafting from doorways, broadcast to the classroom, flowing all over the dinner table, bouncing across the playground. For the average deaf child from hearing parents, ASL is an hour once a week in a special playgroup of children of various ages they don't see again until the next Monday. It's that very expensive and lovely Signing Time collection from grandma that they LOVE, but doesn't provide grammar or more than a handful of vocabulary. It's a parent who thinks he or she is covering a 3YOs language needs with those 20, maybe 50 signs, instead of 1000 words the child should know at that age.

And you'll blame parents for not finding ways to change all of that. Parents finding ways to make over the language of a home, a family, a community, a town, a school, the environments the child will encounter. But ASL is really not all that accessible to parents either. I've cobbled together a means towards learning ASL for myself, with difficulty, but I'd like to find more options, and I know many other parents who are interested, but don't see how it would be possible. I've asked those who did not grow up with ASL how they learned as adults, for tips, programs. Many who advocate so strongly for ASL and against CIs are not even fluent in ASL themselves. Why is that? Because it's not all that accessible.

I've asked those who did learn ASL as children how their parents integrated it into their lives, their family's means of communicating. Most say, they didn't. One or two say, like PFH, through SEE, and ASL was learned on their own. Faire Jour took enough courses over a year or two to qualify at an interpreter level, joined a deaf church, immersed her family in deaf culture. I'd like to know how wee beastie does it, how Jillio did it, how Rockdrummer does it, how other hearing parents with children using ASL were able to make it happen. But I don't think it's easy, and it's certainly not accessible to a child without extraordinary intervention by parents.

I never had full access to spoken language when I was immersed in it full time like I do with ASL.

 

[shel90]

By "access" I mean ability. Deaf children have a natural access to sign language whereas they don't have a natural access to spoken languages.

And since you brought up the topic of ASL integration intthe household, my wife and I made the choice to have a bilingual household. I went to school to learn ASL and am approaching my final year in an interpreting program, my wife plans to take classes when I finish (and in the meantime I'm teaching her as much as I can), and my son is receiving language immersion at our local deaf school. We sign as much as possible at home, though I always feel it's never enough, but my son will not be outsider in his own family. We made the decision to accommodate him rather than "fixing" him to accommodate us.

Many people dont seem to understand what "access" means. They think it is about availability but it is about understanding a language without any barriers.