Selective abortion.

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netrox said:
Exactly my sentiment.

A lot of parents don't want to have disabled children and I read that the majority of pregnant women who found out that their fetus has Downs Syndrome aborted them because they don't want to raise DS kid which requires a lot of resources. Naturally, that would hurt DS persons feelings, feeling like they're not worth their life but keep in mind DS is a serious disability and does impose a burden on families, mentally, emotionally, and financially but there are people that are HAPPY to take those challenges for any reason.

However, no woman should be forced to take challenges if she is not ready.
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Exactly. Alot of pro-lifers interject alot of emotional hyperbole into this. For the majority of them, it's a hypothetical situation. For me, it isn't. I was born with a congenital anomaly. I know first hand what life is like for someone like me and I DO NOT want to inflict the kind of suffering I've had to endure on someone else. I simply couldn't and wouldn't. Some might think my position is cruel and some of my comments are unfeeling. Maybe, but I also am being objective about this. Surely, if I were to approach this from an emotional point of view, it would be upsetting. However upsetting it may be, I still cannot say I would feel any differently.
 
Out of randomness -

Okay... This thread or it's just me, I just noticed here have a lot lot lot of pro-choicers. Do you think so?
 
If I were a fetus with a disability that would pose a huge burden on my family, I would RATHER be aborted because I would think it's in the best interest for the family.

But of course, pro-life people don't care. They insist that I must be born and give my family a lot of stress. They don't even want me.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
Out of randomness -

Okay... This thread or it's just me, I just noticed here have a lot lot lot of pro-choicers. Do you think so?
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more like confused/ambiguous pro-choicers whose beliefs conflicts with their political views regarding abortion.
 
jiro123 said:
What about men? If i choose to have a vasectomy or castration, wouldn't I be murdering a life? My sperm has some soul and it's alive. :roll:
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I am certainly sure that you probably will haul me down because of your utterly intelligence... However your post has a very-good point, but I like to remind you something. Sperm will not survive any much longer, they are only stay alive for several/some days (that depends). ^_^;; They are only reasonable intention for inserted an egg in order to create a new human. Just sayin'. :)

Sure, my post sucks. I jsut simply point out what it is actually true. ^_^;;
 
"My daughter's life is clearly worth living. Her life may be different to that of a high-earning medic, but this does not lessen its quality. It is not the place of doctors to make generalised judgements on her right to live."

Again, it's HER decision to make her live and that's a right EVERY WOMAN is entitled to have. The fact that she's offended that many don't think that way is NOT a valid reason why abortion should not be allowed.

"Yet the RCOG in its ignorance seeks to deem disabled lives as somehow less worthy - unbelievably reducing their worth to a financial matter. If, as they claim, they care, they should refrain from publicly making such hurtful, ill-informed judgments."

I am sorry but that's reality. It's not just about disabled people, but for EVERYONE. The rich is favored more than the poor. The educated is more valued than the ignorant. The fit is more valued than the sick. It's ALWAYS been that way, even in other species.

If I were on a ship with a doctor who has a cure for cancer, whose life is worth more? The doctor, by far. He would be able to save millions of lives by curing their cancer so if there's a shipwreck and only one person can be saved, I must die.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
I am certainly sure that you probably will haul me down because of your utterly intelligence... However your post has a very-good point, but I like to remind you something. Sperm will not survive any much longer, they are only stay alive for several/some days (that depends). ^_^;; They are only reasonable intention for inserted an egg in order to create a new human. Just sayin'. :)

Sure, my post sucks. I jsut simply point out what it is actually true. ^_^;;
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heeyyyy don't worry about it. Speak your mind! that's all I care about. I understand what you're saying. But... you do have a conflicting view because your belief and political view (regarding abortion) are in conflict with each other. But that's ok. we all do with many other issues. I am a consistent 100% pro-choice because my belief and political view are in agreement with each other.

I used sperm example because people say fetus is a breathing life with a soul & spirit and killing fetus is murder. Well then - by applying that logic to sperm example... I masturbated/fornicated and ejaculated millions of sperms - a living life form that moves and have power to create a life. It has soul too. Am I committing murder by masturbating/fornicating? or by having a vasectomy or castration? If the answer is no - then abortion of fetus is not a murder either. They're both bunch of cells and gooey too with no visible body parts that resemble of a fully-developed baby.

:cool2:
 
dreama said:
The heading of this thread is SELECTIVE ABORTION. So could you kindly keep posts regarding abortion in general in the other thread please. This thread is just to discuss Selective abortion, late term abortion, and Euthanasia. So PLEASE stick to those subjects.

Also I thought these letters might be of intest. There was a proposal of killing new born infants with disabilities. Since they kill them before birth because they are 'worthless' the logic conclusion is to kill them afterwards too.

There was some letters in newspaper people might find interesting:

Link: here: Letters: Debate that harms disabled children | Society | The Guardian

Care Not Killing - 'Assisted dying' – is it now the turn of the new-born?
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my posts remain relevant to this thread. REGARDLESS of reasons for abortions - they are entitled to their absolute rights to abort their fetuses. Like I said - reason is of no concern to me. This article is of no interest to me. If they care so much about aborted fetuses - they should expend their time, energy, money, research on improving social welfare system and the well-being for disabled people. It's a known fact in any country that being disabled is not an easy life. expensive medical care, life hardship and stigma come together with it. It is up to parents to choose to live with hardship for their disabled child or not. Everybody has different circumstance, reason, and location. Maybe in NJ/NY/LA/Seattle/Austin/etc. - it's easier to raise the disabled child because of availability of resources, government help, and especially the society's acceptance/view toward to disabled people. If one was born from, say, a hick town - I think I can assume that he/she will not be having same opportunity and happiness as one born in NJ/NY/LA/etc. Who knows? Again - it's entirely up to parents, not us.

We are very lucky to live in USA due to Disability Acts/Laws. But the underlying issue is still there... the same issue as in poor country. it is still expensive to live with and we are constantly faced with stigma. Same for people of certain races and gender. That is why it's entirely up to parents to choose the lifestyle for their disabled babies.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
I am certainly sure that you probably will haul me down because of your utterly intelligence... However your post has a very-good point, but I like to remind you something. Sperm will not survive any much longer, they are only stay alive for several/some days (that depends). ^_^;; They are only reasonable intention for inserted an egg in order to create a new human. Just sayin'. :)

Sure, my post sucks. I jsut simply point out what it is actually true. ^_^;;
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No your post doesn't suck.

Some people believes that life begans at conception. I believe life at first breath.

Surely sperm has a big role on creating life. It alone will not survive. That is why women menstrate. The egg alone can not survive.

But we need to consider the quality of life. If a woman choose not to have a baby with a severe disability it is her choice.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
I respectfully disagreed with what you said. Hey, it is only an example... Sighs... Okay, let me try you ask the same question with a different one... once more again...

Before you knew your child's life, you dont know that you are one-month pregnant. That's mean you DON'T know who your child is, nor her/his lifestyle look like is. Cos you don't know what happen in between your future and this child's future, right? You may have a little care for this child when you are in a such situation...

So which do you really think what more importance life is a child or you?

So, do you get it what I mean? No?
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If I didn't have life, no child of mine ever would either. That is what you are failing to recognize.
 
Maria said:
Huh ? I don't think you understand my view. It has nothin' to do with slander or liable. It has to do with my VIEW the way I see it fits. It's all about " takin' a fetus' life away " or " killin' fetus " and, that's murder to me. That fetus has no voice to speak against which I think it is not fair. I would say that way I see a mother or woman bein' selfish to save her own life by gettin' rid of fetus. I would say that it is the only way out to save one self's guilty. I have the right to voice my view and say my pieces here. I support fetus than mother or woman if, her life can not be saved.

And, again - you and I don't have the same views. We don't have the same conceptions in our opinions. You may say somethin' what you view it and I may say mine as well.
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And to call someone a murderer, when the law does not support your view, is slanderous. When you make an accusation like that, you are bound to support it with fact. And the fact of the matter is, the law does not consider abortion to be murder, and murder is a legal concept. So, while you may disagree with another's opinion regarding abortion, you cannot call them a murderer, because you cannot prove such an accusation.
 
Byrdie714 said:
How do you know if it has it or not?
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Exactly. Even the various religions can't agree on when life begins, or when the "soul" enters the body. The only organization that has been able to come up with a measurable definition for when life begins is the medical and legal field. It begins at viability, which is the point at which independent life is probable.
 
Maria said:
To has nothin' to do with RELIGION. It has to do with " life " by HOW the fetus was made.
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The fetus was made through human copulation during which bodily fluids were exchanged. Either that, or in the case of IVF, in a petri dish in a laboratory where same bodily fluids are extracted from the donors and joined by a medical professional.
 
netrox said:
I could NEVER comprehend WHY women would want to take away the rights of women to decide what they want to do with their pregnancy. As long as fetus is inside them, we have no business to get our hands on their fetuses. If a woman wants abortion because of ANY reason, fine. That's her choice, not yours.

What business does a "pro-life" person have to mingle with a woman's body?

A fetus is NOT a mini-adult. It doesn't understand concepts of life and death. It doesn't have the ability to perceive pain the way we perceive pain. Pro-life people often project their OWN PERSONAL experiences unto them when in fact, the fetuses have NO idea what pro-life people are feeling.

If my mother decided to abort me, that's her decision. If it's because I am deaf or a male, fine. It's her decision. I wouldn't KNOW!

Pro-life people try to say, "a fetus could become a famous president or whatever..." well, we should have aborted Hitler and Stalin to save millions of lives. That logic makes no sense. We CANNOT predict what a fetus will become, period. A fetus can become a nun or a serial killer. Again, that logic is thrown out. If I COULD predict what a fetus will become and that fetus would be nothing but a hellraiser, I'd BE HAPPY to abort it! If I could predict that he'll become a scientist and finding a cure for a deadly disease, I'd be HAPPY to keep it!
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:gpost::gpost:
 
dreama said:
For a disabled person yourself you seem to have a very negative view on disabilites. It is so very depressing. So would you rather be dead? Have you even bothered to read the articles? You need to educate yourself on this issue if you think that people would rather die then face a few extra challanges in life.
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If you consider deafness to be a decapitating disability, that's your view - not mine.
 
jiro123 said:
that's why it's entirely up to you as a person to decide. That is so important to understand. For me - I don't feel comfortable putting my child into the system. I have to live with uncertainty - is my child ok? is my child well-fed and well-taken care for? Are foster parents kind loving people? Not every foster kids have happy ending. It's a huge gamble and a huge risk. If there was a trusted friend who would gladly take in my child, then sure I'll do it (let's just pretend I'm a woman for a moment lol). I'm sure there are other infertile couples who would gladly adopt my child but again - I have to live with uncertainty. Maybe it wasn't what they expected. Maybe things changed in the future that they would become more abusive just because it's not their child. Who knows? That's the risk I'm not willing to take for my child and that is my choice.

The reasons like "convenience, normalcy, disability, etc" are of no concern to me. It's not my problem unless it's relating to my child. I make it my business if someone out there is dictating what's right and what's wrong for all. That is a serious violation of people's sacred rights of freedom.
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Well said!
 
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