Religion and Abortion

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Hwy99

New Member
I have been holding this subject for awhile till things seems cool down around the religion threads, anyway here I go.

What is your beliefs about the abortion? What does your religion said about the abortion? Also for any religions that use bible, what does the bible said anything about the abortion?

This thread is for ANY religions or beliefs, any religion or beliefs are welcome!

PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD CLEAN! ALSO RESPECT EACH OTHER'S OPINION!
 

Cheri

Prayers for my dad.
Premium Member
Absolutely nothing The word "abortion" does not appear in the Bible not in my knowledge. :dunno: I believe abortion does fit in as definition of murder. "Thou shalt not kill"
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
What the Bible says about Abortion

Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17

(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...

And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24
What the Bible says about abortion


:dunno2:
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
Abortion Is Not A Sin

The word of God makes it clear to us that abortion is not a sin. In fact it's quite clear that to believe otherwise is nothing short of idolatry and blasphemy, and those are, quite definitely, sins.

Psalm 139 and the Beginning of Life

One of the most beautiful chapters in the Bible is Psalms 139. It speaks of God's constant, practically doting, love for his creation. It is distressing to see this chapter used by anti-abortionists as proof that life begins at conception. If you read the chapter in its entirety it becomes clear that our existence begins in the mind of God and that God's attentions follow us all of our days, through good and bad. Here are the verses that anti-abortionists use to twist this beautiful chapter to a common political tool:

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works: and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Psalms 139:13-16

These verses are used to prove that human life begins at conception. But there is nothing here to even suggest that. God conceives of us first. We read that a blueprint, of sorts, exists in a book, God's book. Before we are born God uses this to form our bodies. Nowhere here does this describe anything but the making of the human form. Nowhere here does it describe how we are imbued with a human soul. But there are numerous other places in the Bible where God makes it quite clear when and how we become a living being and not just an "imperfect substance" as mentioned in Psalms 139.

Consider first, Genesis 2:7,

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

First, God forms Adam, he forms of dust, a flesh and blood body. SECOND, he "breathes into his nostrils the breath of life" and THEN man became a living soul. Man did not become a living soul when God first formed the IDEA of creating Adam, in Genesis 1:26. Man did not become a living soul when God created his BODY. Not until God gave man his first BREATH did he become a living soul. Life comes from God. It does not come from human conception. To believe that the entry of a sperm into an egg constitutes a human soul is blasphemy. To believe this is to eject God from the mystery of birth and put the power of the male ejaculation above the generative power of God. It is nothing less than idolatry, elevating the status of mere man, his sperm and his ejaculation above the power of God to give life.

The verses in Genesis are not the only verses in the Bible to make this clear. Consider Job 33:4

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Consider the story of Ezekial and the dry bones, Ezekial 37:1-6,

The hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley; it was full of bones. And he led me round among them; and behold, there were very many upon the valley; and lo, they were very dry. And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord God, thou knowest." Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, 'O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause BREATH TO ENTER YOU, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and PUT BREATH IN YOU, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.' (emphases mine)

Just like Adam, who had a body before he had a soul, like every fetus in the womb, these dry bones were given sinew, flesh and skin, and AFTER they received the body GOD breathed into them and THEN they became alive. And, as in the verses above, because of that we "know that [God] is the Lord." Only God can bestow life and he tells us again and again in his word how this is done.

There is no trickery here. God does not breathe through an umbilical cord. We receive the breath of life, from God, through the nostrils, when we take our first breath. The concept of life beginning at birth, rather than conception, is so central to Christianity that we are "born again," not "conceived again."

Psalm 139 and the Beginning of Life

Why doesn't the Bible say anything directly about abortion? Why didn't Jesus dedicate his crusade against the practice as many of his modern day followers have? Did women have abortions in Biblical times? Yes. The Bible tells us so. Many anti-abortionists feel that the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill," covers the abortion issue. But in Mosaic law God covers the exceptions to this law, indicating quite clearly who may be killed and for what offense. For instance, if a man or woman has sex with an animal or commits adultery they must be killed. Does "Thou shalt not kill" apply to abortion? No. Miscarriage or abortion is an exception. Let's look at Exodus 21:22

"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

In this instance a woman has been so injured, in a fight between two men, that she has aborted. The law states that if "no harm follows" the outsider must pay the husband a fine. An abortion has been induced through violence and this is not considered harmful. Abortion, then, is not a capital offense or a violation of the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."


Does anyone know where in the Bible a prophet of God calls upon God to induce abortions in the wives of his enemies? Let's look at Hosea 9:14.

Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb (an abortion) and dry breasts.

And later,

...yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
Hosea 9:16

In this case God causes abortions, the prophet prays that these women will abort. If these are truly innocent children, how could God do this? But they are not, they are "miscarrying wombs," "unperfect substances" and God will prevent them from becoming human souls that will grow up to oppress his people.

What if Mary had Decided to Abort Jesus?

Many people are surprised to learn that God gave Mary a choice concerning her pregnancy with the future Savior. In the gospel of Luke the angel came to her announcing what the will of God was for her life. In verse 1:38 Mary replies, "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." Mary gives her assent. To believe that Mary had no voice in the process is unthinkable, for that would mean that God forced Himself on (raped) an unwed, teenaged virgin. Mary chose to be the mother of our Savior. God honored her ability to make that choice.

Conclusion

Abortion is not a sin, though blasphemy and idolatry are. To say that human copulation (which the Bible calls unclean) has the power to bestow life is blasphemy. No mere act of man can negate the fact that only God bestows life, by giving the fully formed body, breath. Asserting that human life begins at conception is counter to the claims of the word of God and is a sin. It is doubly a sin because this debased belief leads others to sin. Those that kill clinic workers, harass clients and attempt to legislate this wayward belief lead innocent believers down a road to murder and depravity.

Follow the example of Jesus, let those that want Christ come to you. Do not force the grace of God on anyone. God has the power, not only to give life, but to save. As Paul says in Galatians 2:21,

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Abortion is Not a Sin


:dunno2:
 

Hwy99

New Member
Generally Buddhism:

Abortion: A Buddhist Perspective

Abortion is a highly emotive moral issue that no-one can fail to have a view on. Arguments for and against have been contentious and protracted, and continue to be so. What guidelines does Buddhism offer?

Abortion can be defined as 'the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus' (Merriam-Webster Dictionary). The definition itself is uncontentious. The moral arguments hinge on the status we give to those two terms 'embryo' and 'fetus'. Do these two terms refer to what we might call a human being, a potential or less-than-complete human being, or not a human being at all?

Early Scriptures

The early scriptures of Buddhism (The Pali Canon) are unequivocal in seeing human life as starting with conception.


Forthisto occur, three factors are necessary:a fertile egg, sperm and a 'being' ready to be reborn, what is termed a gandhabba: 'when there is the union of the mother and father, and it is the mother's season, and the being to be reborn is present, through the union of these three things the conception of an embryoin a womb takes place'. The word 'being', however, should not be thoughtof as a 'spirit' or 'soul' but consciousness being operated on by the force ofkamma (karma) that determines where the rebirth will be (according to previous deeds).

The First Precept

Iflife begins at conception thenany termination following this is seen to be morally unwholesome.To have an abortion is to break the first precept - to abstain from harming or killing livings beings. This - as any unwholesome act does - carries negative karmic consequences which will bear fruit either in this life or future lives. It is also to deny theprecious opportunity that human life affords for the attainment of enlightenment. Out of the six realms that make upBuddhist wheel of life or samsara - the realms of hell-beings,hungry ghosts, animals, human life, Titans andheavenly beings - the humanrealm is seen to bethe most precious.The basic position taken by Buddhism, therefore, is that abortion is wrong. But is it ever permissible?

Exceptions?

Buddhism recognises there are times when an abortion might be necessary - when the mother's life is at risk, for example. This seems to imply that the mother's lifeis of greater value than the embryo or fetus. If this is the case, it might be argued that it is less serious to terminate a less developed being than a more developed one. A Buddhist might argue that it is morally worseto kill a dog than it is an ant,or to killto aa holy person than a murderer. On this basis, is it morally worse to abort athree month oldold fetus than one at two months?

Shades of Opinion

Like any serious moral issue there are different shades of opinion. Although the Buddhist consensusis that abortion is morally wrong, individual Buddhists may differ in how they assess to what extent it is wrong in individual cases.

One stance is that human life begins at conception and therefore abortion at any stage in the pregnancy is wrong - full stop. Another stance might be that the offence is worse the more developed the fetus or embryo. Yet another might be that the seriousness of the offence can only be determined by taking into account the full circumstances surrounding the abortion.For example,would it be more morally reprehensible to have an abortion for the sake of continuing one's career than because the continued pregancy threatens the welfare of the mother? The degree of moral culpability is always going to bedifficult to measure.

Abortion: A Buddhist Perspective



And my Buddhism, the Theravada:

What were the Buddha's views on abortion?
Practicing Buddhists observe the five precepts as a foundation for the moral life that spiritual progress requires. The first of these precepts is to "refrain from destroying living creatures." Because Theravada Buddhism regards human life as beginning at the moment of conception,1 killing a fetus implies killing a human being, making abortion patently incompatible with the first precept.

One indication of the seriousness with which the Buddha regarded abortion is found in the Vinaya, the collection of texts that define the conduct and duties of Buddhist monastics. According to the Vinaya, if a bhikkhu or bhikkhuni should facilitate an abortion, or if a woman should get an abortion based on their recommendation, then that bhikkhu or bhikkhuni is immediately expelled from the Sangha, having broken one of the four cardinal rules of monastic conduct.2

Notes

1. According to the Pali texts, conception occurs when three things are simultaneously present: the mother (i.e., a fertile egg), the father (a sperm cell), and the gandhabba (the kammic energy of the being that is seeking rebirth). If all three successfully coincide, human consciousness arises in the fertilized ovum and rebirth occurs. For a description of this process, see the Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta (MN 38). See Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of this sutta (along with helpful footnotes) in "The Middle Length Discourse of the Buddha" (Boston: Wisdom Publications, 1995).

2. This rule (Parajika #3), which applies equally to bhikkhunis as well as bhikkhus, states:

Should any bhikkhu [or bhikkhuni] intentionally deprive a human being of life, or search for an assassin for him, or praise the advantages of death, or incite him to die (thus): "My good man, what use is this wretched, miserable life to you? Death would be better for you than life," or with such an idea in mind, such a purpose in mind, should in various ways praise the advantages of death or incite him to die, he [she] also is defeated and no longer in communion.
The word-commentary to this rule makes clear that abortion counts as "intentionally depriving a human being of life." See The Buddhist Monastic Code, Vol. I

Frequently Asked Questions About Buddhism


Not surprised that it was alittle similar to the bible.
 

jillio

New Member
Religious view guide personal choices, not law. If one disagrees with abortion on religious principles, one is free to choose not to have an abortion. However, one is not free to force one's religious beliefs on another, and therefore, remove their choice. If one wants the freedom not to choose, then one must also allow the freedom for others to choose differently if they so desire.
 

GarnetTigerMom

New Member
Religious view guide personal choices, not law. If one disagrees with abortion on religious principles, one is free to choose not to have an abortion. However, one is not free to force one's religious beliefs on another, and therefore, remove their choice. If one wants the freedom not to choose, then one must also allow the freedom for others to choose differently if they so desire.
I have to agree there well said!
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
I am speechless! :ugh3:
Exactly, that´s why I use those 2 links as an example to show anyone that each bible translate differently what they thought positive or negative over abortion.

I don´t follow what any bible of different relgious says including 2 links but myself.
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
Religious view guide personal choices, not law. If one disagrees with abortion on religious principles, one is free to choose not to have an abortion. However, one is not free to force one's religious beliefs on another, and therefore, remove their choice. If one wants the freedom not to choose, then one must also allow the freedom for others to choose differently if they so desire.
Exactly
 

Hwy99

New Member
Religious view guide personal choices, not law. If one disagrees with abortion on religious principles, one is free to choose not to have an abortion. However, one is not free to force one's religious beliefs on another, and therefore, remove their choice. If one wants the freedom not to choose, then one must also allow the freedom for others to choose differently if they so desire.
Of course, individual's beliefs! :)

Exactly, that´s why I use those 2 links as an example to show anyone that each bible translate differently what they thought positive or negative over abortion.

I don´t follow what any bible of different relgious says including 2 links but myself.
And I am glad that you brought those link, they are good descriptions, it actually answered my question :)

That will probably never happen, so just go ahead. ;)
Allright, it's just that I care about the ADers ;)
 

KarissaMann05

Active Member
Premium Member
I wish soembody else not post a 35th annv. of roe v woe.. oh well.

I'd rather to back off since some ADers may get upset easily/possbily.

Again, it's her personal choice, no one should tell them to do.

I'm still very disappointment with Christianty and other religious groups are invoving with their personl desicions..

Of course, we can speak our opinions on abortion as long as we dont tell them what they do. :)
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
But I googled your link to "Bible, Quran, and Book of Mormon" link, and googled "Abortion" through its own website, it says the same thing as Liebling's links she proved? :dunno:
That's my point. I'm showing you the original source of the link.

Reading and believing a posted link is not enough. One must know the true source of the information. Some sources are uniformed, some are untruthful, some have a hidden or stated agenda, and some are spoofs. We should all be careful of information that we get from the web. Not all of it is trustworthy. We should at least be aware of any bias in the link.
 

Hwy99

New Member
I wish soembody else not post a 35th annv. of roe v woe.. oh well.

I'd rather to back off since some ADers may get upset easily/possbily.

Again, it's her personal choice, no one should tell them to do.

I'm still very disappointment with Christianty and other religious groups are invoving with their personl desicions..

Of course, we can speak our opinions on abortion as long as we dont tell them what they do. :)
Also no one should put any word into your mouth that you disagree ;) You have right to express your opinion here too :) Remember, the first post of this thread said to respect each other's opinion, so you are safe here :D It's up to ya.

That's my point. I'm showing you the original source of the link.

Reading and believing a posted link is not enough. One must know the true source of the information. Some sources are uniformed, some are untruthful, some have a hidden or stated agenda, and some are spoofs. We should all be careful of information that we get from the web. Not all of it is trustworthy. We should at least be aware of any bias in the link.
I see..
 

GarnetTigerMom

New Member
Religions and abortion should be two separte issue. I know some people are religions frantics against abortions. But they forget the bible did not say " abortion". But however the word in the bible did stated "thou not kill " so that different story.
 
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