Putting your deaf children in which schools...and why?

deafdyke said:
Grendel, you're mixing up accessibilty with ease of learning. Yes, it's easier to access the edcuational opertunties of the hearing world.(b/c they're right there) ....but that doesn't mean that it's easier for the dhh kid to learn via oral and aural methods (and I say that as a very auditory learner)
Click to expand...

There are several schools of thought around the best way to learn languages. From my own experience, how I see my child learning, and what I know of bilingual language development, I think that accessibility and immersion in a language makes it easier to acquire and learn that language.

Given access to sound via CI, my daughter experiences English daily, hourly, everywhere, displaying variety and grammatical complexity. That's great, I'm not knocking this exposure -- we want this! But, like most deaf children of hearing parents, she finds herself in environments that provide far more of this spoken language input than ASL. The ASL she gets at home is basic, elementary -- what we know and usually directed at Li-Li. Political discussions about financial reform, debates about the cinematic merits of a film, phone conversations, over-the-fence chats with the neighbor, or chatter about whether or not we can afford a solar water heater are in spoken language. She needs more than we can provide, but not just from us -- we're not shirking this role -- she needs more than her whole environment can provide to be truly fluent in ASL and have the same ease in learning as she does with spoken language.

She needs immersion. An ASL immersive environment out of the gate is rare -- unless you opt for a school for the deaf (as we do). That's my point: ASL is not easy for her to learn without having the same level of immersion as she does with spoken language. Our approach to resolve this includes our wonderful bi-bi school for the deaf.
 
Oh yeah! Grendel! My niece, Vanessa, is 9 years old and goes to the same school as your daughter. Do you know her? Is this a silly question?

The closest school for us is California School for the Deaf, Fremont. I really do want to send him there, but it is not easy to relocate nowadays. :/
 
Eseff said:
Oh yeah! Grendel! My niece, Vanessa, is 9 years old and goes to the same school as your daughter. Do you know her? Is this a silly question?

The closest school for us is California School for the Deaf, Fremont. I really do want to send him there, but it is not easy to relocate nowadays. :/
Click to expand...

Hi Eseff, hugs to your little one!
I don't know Vanessa, but I'll bet she and Li have met on campus (my daughter is only 4, Vanessa is probably one of the big kids she looks up to :) ! Isn't that an amazing place?

I know how you feel, Li-Li has a nearly 2 hour trip there, and again back home everyday -- any longer and there's just no way we could do it, can't imagine what would happen if we tried to sell the house these days. We just got lucky living where we do.
 
GrendelQ said:
There are several schools of thought around the best way to learn languages. From my own experience, how I see my child learning, and what I know of bilingual language development, I think that accessibility and immersion in a language makes it easier to acquire and learn that language.

Given access to sound via CI, my daughter experiences English daily, hourly, everywhere, displaying variety and grammatical complexity. That's great, I'm not knocking this exposure -- we want this! But, like most deaf children of hearing parents, she finds herself in environments that provide far more of this spoken language input than ASL. The ASL she gets at home is basic, elementary -- what we know and usually directed at Li-Li. Political discussions about financial reform, debates about the cinematic merits of a film, phone conversations, over-the-fence chats with the neighbor, or chatter about whether or not we can afford a solar water heater are in spoken language. She needs more than we can provide, but not just from us -- we're not shirking this role -- she needs more than her whole environment can provide to be truly fluent in ASL and have the same ease in learning as she does with spoken language.

She needs immersion. An ASL immersive environment out of the gate is rare -- unless you opt for a school for the deaf (as we do). That's my point: ASL is not easy for her to learn without having the same level of immersion as she does with spoken language. Our approach to resolve this includes our wonderful bi-bi school for the deaf.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. A child will NOT learn a language unless they have exposure to it, no matter how accessable it is. If there are no fluent language models for ASL, they aren't just going to magically learn it because they "are visual". Saying that ASL is easier for the child to learn is only true if there are people around them using it, otherwise it doesn't exsist for them.
 
Yeah, I doubt I will ever be fluent in ASL. Are there any hearing parents on here fluent in ASL? I guess that's the weird part, huh? I wish this stuff wasn't so difficult. It's too divided. I think it's all about funding and money. It's sad, really. Our kids should be together, not separated.
 
Eseff said:
Yeah, I doubt I will ever be fluent in ASL. Are there any hearing parents on here fluent in ASL? I guess that's the weird part, huh? I wish this stuff wasn't so difficult. It's too divided. I think it's all about funding and money. It's sad, really. Our kids should be together, not separated.
Click to expand...

This is what I, and many others here on AD and out there, don't get. What's stopping you? There's books you can buy, sign videos, heck, even sign sites like aslpro.com. Even if you can't fully apply it in real life at all times, it can be used as a communication method at home, and who knows if you (your deaf child) end up going to a different school eventually that ASL would be used. Why are you expecting us, as deaf children or adults, to learn communication methods YOUR (the hearing) way when you can't make the effort to learn communication methods OUR (the deaf) way?
 
Eseff said:
Yeah, I doubt I will ever be fluent in ASL. Are there any hearing parents on here fluent in ASL? I guess that's the weird part, huh? I wish this stuff wasn't so difficult. It's too divided. I think it's all about funding and money. It's sad, really. Our kids should be together, not separated.
Click to expand...

http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/75825-links-websites-learning-asl.html

This link will provide a bunch of website to help learn ASL and there's one on there for other languages as well.

I have been HOH my whole life until 4 years ago and I am still working at learning ASL. I have no way to be totally immersed since my family does not want to learn with me. I am now total deaf and HA's and CI's will not benefit me at all.
 
AlleyCat said:
This is what I, and many others here on AD and out there, don't get. What's stopping you? There's books you can buy, sign videos, heck, even sign sites like aslpro.com. Even if you can't fully apply it in real life at all times, it can be used as a communication method at home, and who knows if you (your deaf child) end up going to a different school eventually that ASL would be used. Why are you expecting us, as deaf children or adults, to learn communication methods YOUR (the hearing) way when you can't make the effort to learn communication methods OUR (the deaf) way?
Click to expand...

Who is asking you to learn to write or to speak, if that's what you are referring to as "YOUR (the hearing ) way"? I haven't seen anyone on this thread calling you or other deaf individuals out for their preference for ASL vs speaking/hearing.

Those on this thread talking about the many barriers to fluency in ASL are describing the dearth of immersive opportunities for ASL in our lives, something I'd think you'd be on board with: don't you want to see more ASL out there, a more inclusive, less 'ghetto-ized' approach to providing ASL in schools, in stores, on television, in movies?

Also, please don't suggest I "can't make the effort to learn communication methods OUR (the deaf) way." Believe me, I'm making the effort and it's not YOUR way, it's MY way, too.
 
GrendelQ said:
Who is asking you to learn to write or to speak, if that's what you are referring to as "YOUR (the hearing ) way"? I haven't seen anyone on this thread calling you or other deaf individuals out for their preference for ASL vs speaking/hearing.

Those on this thread talking about the many barriers to fluency in ASL are describing the dearth of immersive opportunities for ASL in our lives, something I'd think you'd be on board with: don't you want to see more ASL out there, a more inclusive, less 'ghetto-ized' approach to providing ASL in schools, in stores, on television, in movies?

Also, please don't suggest I "can't make the effort to learn communication methods OUR (the deaf) way." Believe me, I'm making the effort and it's not YOUR way, it's MY way, too.
Click to expand...

If the parents are not becoming proficient in ASL (as was indicated in the post I previously replied to), what other form of communication is there? Speaking and writing. There have been a lot of posts across this forum in regards to learning speech. I am all, all, ALL for learning speech. I learned speech and it has benefited me greatly. But when ASL is eliminated or thought of as a minimal or last resort, that's where it feels to the deaf that it isn't important as a method of communication. How else do you explain a statement from a hearing parent to a deaf person: "Yeah, I doubt I will ever be fluent in ASL."
 
AlleyCat said:
If the parents are not becoming proficient in ASL (as was indicated in the post I previously replied to), what other form of communication is there? Speaking and writing. There have been a lot of posts across this forum in regards to learning speech. I am all, all, ALL for learning speech. I learned speech and it has benefited me greatly. But when ASL is eliminated or thought of as a minimal or last resort, that's where it feels to the deaf that it isn't important as a method of communication. How else do you explain a statement from a hearing parent to a deaf person: "Yeah, I doubt I will ever be fluent in ASL."
Click to expand...

It takes YEARS and hundreds of thosands of hours to become truly fluent in a language. You know the one thing that will make it go faster though? Being called a bad parent. That does a lot of good.

Clearly this mother is working and struggling and willing to make sacrifices (like moving to a deaf school) to have their child use ASL, and instead of honoring that, you slap her in the face....I wonder why parents turn away from the Deaf community :hmm:
 
AlleyCat said:
If the parents are not becoming proficient in ASL (as was indicated in the post I previously replied to), what other form of communication is there? Speaking and writing. There have been a lot of posts across this forum in regards to learning speech. I am all, all, ALL for learning speech. I learned speech and it has benefited me greatly. But when ASL is eliminated or thought of as a minimal or last resort, that's where it feels to the deaf that it isn't important as a method of communication. How else do you explain a statement from a hearing parent to a deaf person: "Yeah, I doubt I will ever be fluent in ASL."
Click to expand...

That's the key component. A parent is already devaluing ASL by telling their deaf child that they doubt he/she would be fluent in ASL. My question is...why not give it a try? What's the harm? A parent's fear that the child would prefer ASL over speech skills?

I was told that I didn't need ASL...when it turned out that I reallly did need it. I wish I had both growing up and that is what many of us want for future deaf children.
 
shel90 said:
That's the key component. A parent is already devaluing ASL by telling their deaf child that they doubt he/she would be fluent in ASL. My question is...why not give it a try? What's the harm? A parent's fear that the child would prefer ASL over speech skills?

I was told that I didn't need ASL...when it turned out that I reallly did need it. I wish I had both growing up and that is what many of us want for future deaf children.
Click to expand...

This parent IS trying. They are learning ASL but are concerned that they will never reach true fluency because of lack of availibility, services, Deaf community, classes, people to practice with, native signers to learn from....MANY reasons. Why judge and put down?
 
shel90 said:
That's the key component. A parent is already devaluing ASL by telling their deaf child that they doubt he/she would be fluent in ASL. My question is...why not give it a try? What's the harm? A parent's fear that the child would prefer ASL over speech skills?

I was told that I didn't need ASL...when it turned out that I reallly did need it. I wish I had both growing up and that is what many of us want for future deaf children.
Click to expand...

Right, I agree: I want that too! But read essef's posts, she wants ASL in her life and in her adorable 1YO's life. She's not devaluing it by expressing her fears about achieving fluency to us! As FJ says, she needs encouragement, examples of other parents successfully becoming fluent, she needs to know it can be done. She wants to give it a try, but doesn't know how to achieve the fluency a child needs from his or her parent and sounds discouraged to me.

I'm gently pointing to a school for the deaf as one possible way to achieve ASL immersion, something that isn't easily available in everyday life. There isn't such a school within her reach, she says. I think we need more ASL visible to our children's in every part of their lives, not just in a siloed class -- others pooh pooh that and say ASL comes easily to children, it flows in the air magically.

But Shel, you are the perfect guide here: an educator who has seen what works well now and has experienced what doesn't work in the past.

And others who are taking or have taken this journey, how did you become fluent? My family's path to ASL is unique to where I live, but it involves a very special school for the deaf (that not only instructs my child, but provides ASL classes to families and others, too!), amazing state supported access to family sign class in my home, finding a gem of an ASL-based daycare program and parent-infant program led by deaf teachers, all conducted in ASL.

But you warm and happy Californians: step up! Tell this person where to find ASL immersion, tell her where the infant daycare programs with ASL and deaf caregivers are. Where are the playgroups, the early intervention centers, the preK programs, the easily accessible ASL learning opportunities for parents, classes, online one on one programs with ASL teachers for distance learners. Share the wealth of your information or this is one more parent might learn baby sign and then walk away from ASL, discouraged after reaching out to the deaf community and being chastised for not being fluent after a couple of months on her own with an ASL dictionary and a signing time dvd.
 
faire_jour said:
It takes YEARS and hundreds of thosands of hours to become truly fluent in a language. You know the one thing that will make it go faster though? Being called a bad parent. That does a lot of good.

Clearly this mother is working and struggling and willing to make sacrifices (like moving to a deaf school) to have their child use ASL, and instead of honoring that, you slap her in the face....I wonder why parents turn away from the Deaf community :hmm:
Click to expand...

How did Alleycat slap her in the face? I didn't see any indication of that. :confused:
 
Apparently there is a misunderstanding. I was referring to the parents not bothering with exposing the child to ASL because the parents feel the child will never be fluent in ASL.

That was what I was referring to.
 
Maybe I better refrain from posting until I am on a computer as it seems like I am missing some posts by using my phone.

My apologies..
 
I need to get to work, so this is my last post for a bit. I actually wasn't referring to a specific poster (hence, I was not trying to "slap" someone in the face), but I can see how it came across that way because my reply was in response to a previous post. I was only quoting that post because of a portion of it -- the "I doubt I will ever ..." Anyway, this is by far not the first thread in which methods of communication and educating children have been hotly debated as there is a clear difference of perspective between deaf and hearing people on this board. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
 
"Kids, you are not working hard enough to be oral" -Pro-Oral

"Kids, you are working too hard to be oral." -Pro-ASL

"Parents, you are not working hard enough to teach your child oral skills." - Pro-Oral

"Parents, you are not working hard enough to gain fluency in ASL." -Pro-ASL

Maybe everyone is just hardly working. :)
 
Daredevel7 said:
"Kids, you are not working hard enough to be oral" -Pro-Oral

"Kids, you are working too hard to be oral." -Pro-ASL

"Parents, you are not working hard enough to teach your child oral skills." - Pro-Oral

"Parents, you are not working hard enough to gain fluency in ASL." -Pro-ASL

Maybe everyone is just hardly working. :)
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
It's okay. I'm not someone who is bothered by things like that. I'm learning a lot from reading everyone's stories. I can see that everyone has a lot of emotions behind their posts, and I can kinda understand. :)
 
Back
Top