Oregon community college shooting, multiple casualties

[seb]

FYI - military guns are illegal to obtain for civilian purpose. these are automatic weapons... already illegal in America for decades.

And your saying that nobody in the United States owns any of them? Really?

 

[seb]

OK, so you know two people who (in your layman's opinion) shouldn't have guns. Do they?

Nope

 

[Reba]

So what you're saying is Maine is safe because we're white, educated and old. How then is gun control going to change any of that?

Apparently they have no citizens with Aspergers either.

 

[Reba]

I'm not talking about gun control and never have been. Something clearly has to be done to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them and also to keep them off the streets.

So, you want to control who has access to guns but that's not called gun control?

It sounds like you think that everyone should have a gun and every released prisoner should be given a gun when they leave the prison.

That's such a ridiculous statement.

I'm talking common sense and your talking like you want to bring back the wild west. I have absolutely no problem with someone owning a gun as long as they are of sound mind; I do however support a ban on assault rifles, other than for killing they have no other purpose and should be limited to military use.

You know that "assault" rifle is just a politically-charged nickname for semi-automatic rifles that have a military "look," right? You also know that so-called "assault" rifles are not the main players in mass murders, right?

 

[seb]

And a gun is a tool. 99% of guns in this country are used for sport and hunting. I harvest a deer with my rifle like someone harvests hay with a scythe.

But I'll bet you if you turned it on someone and pulled the trigger, they would be just a dead! And you hunt for your deer, the farmer doesn't have to hunt to harvest his hay.


The definition of hunt is to pursue and kill (a wild animal) for sport or food. I don't think it fits a farmer harvesting his hay.

 

[seb]

So, you want to control who has access to guns but that's not called gun control?

Your not as confused as I am with your illogical thinking. You want to keep the status quo and let whomever want's to buy a firearm buy one no matter what their mental state is.

That's such a ridiculous statement.

That seems to be what you and the NRA wants.

You know that "assault" rifle is just a politically-charged nickname for semi-automatic rifles that have a military "look," right? You also know that so-called "assault" rifles are not the main players in mass murders, right?

You do realize that in over half of all the mass murders an assault type firearm was used. Just to let you know, it isn't considered a mass murder until four are killed and that doesn't include the murderer.

 

[Reba]

I never said that people with ASD's should not be allowed to own a gun, just that they need closer scrutiny when they go to buy one, so those who may exhibit violent tendency's can be weeded out.

What do you mean by "closer scrutiny?" And, if that is for people with ASD, what other groups of people do you want under "closer scrutiny?"

Don't give me that NRA jargon, you as I know what guns I'm talking about!

We can't read your mind. What exactly do you mean by "assault rifle?" And don't give us any uninformed gun-controller jargon.

Here is a snippet from another study on mass murderers I read: According to the 2007 Small Arms Survey, United States, Yemen, Switzerland, Finland, and Serbia, rank among the top five countries for firearms owned per capita. They are all also ranked in the top 15 countries for public mass shooters per capita. Just food for thought.

I recommend reading the entire report.

Another snippet:

. . . The most reliable data is official gun registration statistics, but they tell an incomplete story. The registration data made available to the Small Arms Survey establishes the existence of a total of 78 million firearms in civilian hands worldwide. Compared to the civilian firearms estimated using other techniques explained below, declared registration covers roughly 10–14 per cent of all civilian firearms believed to exist.

More registration data exists, but it has not been made available for research. Some countries have registration data, but do not make it available publicly. Others maintain registration records in ways that inhibit national accumulation. Germany illustrates this problem (see Box 2.4). In a few countries, such as China, Mozambique, Sudan, and Tunisia, registration laws are not consistently applied or are ignored. An egregious example is Sudan, where the Ministry of the Interior recently reported 6,724 registered firearms, out of some 2.2–3.6 million guns believed to be in civilian hands (Karp, 2006b).

The world’s largest nation is affected by similar enigmas. China’s firearms law of 1996 (China, 1996) forbids civil- ians to own guns unless specifically approved by law enforcement authorities. In practice, this has been interpreted to sharply limit ownership. According to a report from 2005, the country of 1.3 billion people had only 680,000 legally registered civilian firearms. But the same source noted that over five million military firearms were distributed to Chinese civilians in the 1950s and 1960s, and never recovered (Courrier international, 2005). Registration is not comprehensive anywhere, but China is typical of cases where relatively few of the guns in civilian hands are known to authorities. A completely different sense of scale comes from a series of police campaigns against illegal firearms since 1996. As of 2002, these campaigns reportedly seized 2.3 million guns (Small Arms Survey, 2005, p. 82). In 2005 total seizures were said to be five million guns (Hu, 2005). More recently, the chief Chinese public security official responsible for firearm issues maintained that 38 million firearms were seized by police in the period 1996–2006 (Xiao, 2006). While such figures test credulity, they convey a sense that civilian ownership in China is much more common than official registration data suggests.

A more typical example of the weaknesses of registration is Jordan, where some 126,000 firearms are registered, but at least 500,000 more are believed to be in civilian hands (Al-Fawz, 2002, p. 91). The situation is even more complicated in countries such as the Czech Republic, the Philippines, or South Africa, where registration is temporary. When owners fail to renew or surrender weapons as their registration expires, a growing pool of unregistered weap- ons emerges. Even in such cases, though, registration is a vital clue to the scale of civilian holdings. Some of the largest gun-owning societies—such as Iraq, the United States, and Yemen—simply do not have systematic registration.

Even where comprehensive registration is the long-standing law of the land, compliance is imperfect. One of the best-known examples is England and Wales (Scotland and Northern Ireland keep separate statistics). There were 1,742,300 legally registered firearms in England and Wales as of 31 March 2005 (Ellis and Coleman, 2006). The number of illegal, unregistered weapons there has been estimated by various observers at between 300,000 and 4,000,000 (Cramb, 2006; Goodchild and Lashmar, 2005). Some of these firearms were held back when comprehen- sive registration was introduced in the 1960s (Greenwood, 1972, pp. 17–38). Others have been smuggled into the country since then….

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...full/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-EN.pdf

 

[Reba]

Because the study YOU brought up showed a disproportionate number of shooters to have or suspected to have had ASD. My contention is that everyone should have to have a mental health check before they can buy a gun and you want everyone to be allowed to go into a 7/11 and be able to buy a gun like you would a Big Gulp.

Really?

To hell with being cautious lets just let everyone own and wear a gun and we will all be safer, isn't that the moto of the NRA?

Really?

Do you enjoy writing creative fiction?

 

[Reba]

. . .
The AR's have a lot more killing power than a hand gun since you can shoot lot more bullets in a much shorter time frame since you don't have to reload as often. Once again I'm just taking a common sense approach to the problem we have in the US since we have roughly 12 times the number of mass shootings than the next nearest country. We obviously are doing something wrong here.

How many (in raw numbers and percentages) "AR's" were used in mass public killings? How many hand guns? How many other guns?

Do you know what "AR" stands for?

 

[Reba]

I wouldn't limit it to just assault rifles but I would like to see any semi automatic/automatic rifle outlawed, they have no place outside of a war zone. There only purpose is to kill and kill a lot in a short period of time.

If you can't even define assault rifle, how can you limit its control?

Fully automatic rifles are currently outlawed for civilian use.

 

[Reba]

Sorry, but in most of these killings it's the shooter who people remember and the victims are just that nameless victims. Do you remember any of the names in the Sandy hook killings (without looking it up?) but there is a good chance you will remember the killer was Adam Lanza. Do you remember any of the names in the CO. theater shooting? But you probably remember that the shooter was James Holmes. The victims just end up being victims for eternity. Sad but true.

For one thing, that's what the media focuses on.

For another, since the victims in mass murders outnumber the killers it's easier for people to remember one name per incident.

The victims are not nameless or forgotten by their loved ones.

BTW, which names did you just post? The victims or the killers?

 

[Reba]

I took a little liberty with the quote and perhaps paraphrased it a little too much. The actual quote from Wayne LaPierre is: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

A little liberty? Ha!

Yeh, the background checks have done a fantastic job at stopping these shootings, I think they are working just fine! As long as you are hell bent on killing someone or shooting up a public place.

If that's what you think then how do you believe additional restrictions (like a mental exam) would work any better?

The laws are only as strong as compliance and enforcement of them is.

Anyone who wants to commit evil will find a way to do it or die in the attempt.

 

[Reba]

Illegal military weapon for cilivians

Semi-auto rifles are not illegal for civilians. Fully-auto rifles are.

 

[Reba]

That's because it expired and the government couldn't keep the law abiding, so called good guys from buying the guns illegally.

Now who is repeating propaganda?

 

[Reba]

The most popular guns in america are semi auto so you're talking about banning guns from just about everyone. For someone who not saying to ban guns you sure are banning a lot of guns.

Including some that TCS and I own.

 

[seb]

Really?

Yep

Really?

Yep

Do you enjoy writing creative fiction?

Do you?

 

[Reba]

I know people who were buying the guns in pieces and putting them together during the ban and these were what you would probably deem to be good guys.

If you know people who are buying illegal receivers and building illegal guns then you should report them to the BATF. Did you?

 

[Reba]

At the time I had no idea what was and what wasn't legal and one is dead and the other I haven't seen in many, many years and have no idea if he is still alive or where he is living. Both came off as total "gun nuts" and I basically steered clear of them. I probably don't know any more "criminals" then the next person. Funny thing was at the time I knew these "gun nuts" (one was a friend of a friend and the other I met through train collecting) I new 13 police officers and they were as crooked or more so than anyone else I knew. Yes, knowing how our government works I'm sure it was legal and that is the fault of our do nothing congress who didn't have the backbone to make the ban permanent.

You do run in a strange crowd--two "gun nuts" making illegal guns and 13 crooked cops. I'm 64 years old and I've never known anyone from either group.

 

[seb]

If that's what you think then how do you believe additional restrictions (like a mental exam) would work any better?

The laws on the books today are basically rubber stamped or written by the NRA. They own the lawmakers and get what they want into law with their generous donations.

The laws are only as strong as compliance and enforcement of them is.

The laws on the books today are basically rubber stamped or written by the NRA. They own the lawmakers and get what they want into law with their generous donations.


Anyone who wants to commit evil will find a way to do it or die in the attempt.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but if they don't have access to guns, they might not be able to shoot and kill as many as they currently are doing at places like Sandy Hook, Conn., Aurora, CO, Roseburg, OR.

 

[seb]

If you know people who are buying illegal receivers and building illegal guns then you should report them to the BATF. Did you?

I already answered that one.