Deaf School vs. Mainstreaming..Pros and Cons?- Poston

[Blade Runner]

it's more in terms of public schools that need to get involved. From what I've seen, Unless the parent fights for the child, Most Public Schools will treat the child same as hearing peers, which can cause developmental delays. Therefore, the child gets further behind and the school and parents give up and place the child in a deaf school. So the schools need to learn how to work with deaf children.. because from what I've seen.. They haven't done a good job of it.

Deaf schools are good for the child.. but I think that parents need to fight for their children. Instead of expect teachers to be an advocate, Parents need to step up to the plate themselves. Advocate for their children, not just sit by and watch their children fail. Also, parents need to help their children at home too. Some parents are too busy working or focused on other things to really help their children.

I'm not bashing parents in general.. I know most parents help their children. I've just seen some truly horrible parents in my lifetime.. Ick.

That's what I was getting at. Thanks Bearbeauty.

 

[Yiffzer]

Mainstreamed schools:

Pros -

• Improved socializing between the deaf and the hearing.
• Better use of English grammar.
• Better education i.e. better at math, science, etc.
• More maturity.

Cons -

• A disassociation between the deaf student who went to deaf and the mainstreamed schools.
• Jealousy from the other deaf students who did not go to deaf schools.

Deaf Schools:

Pros -

• No language barrier in a situation that requires communication.
• More unity
• Easy to make new friends.
• More maturity.

Cons -

• Less socialization with the hearing
• Weak English grammar.
• Less involved in Science, Math, etc.
• Less maturity.

Gee, I see a lot of contradictions there.

 

[Yiffzer]

I'm glad you agree with me. There were some deaf people on a deaf forum (I will not name the website's name here) who took offense to what I pointed out and refused to acknowledge that there are some flaws in the deaf school systems. I saw their argument as weak and immature so I shrugged them off.

But can you describe how deaf schools turn you off? Can you tell me why you prefer mainstreamed schools over deaf schools?

Deaf Summit? I don't think anyone denied the weaknesses of deaf schools.

 

[shel90]

it's more in terms of public schools that need to get involved. From what I've seen, Unless the parent fights for the child, Most Public Schools will treat the child same as hearing peers, which can cause developmental delays. Therefore, the child gets further behind and the school and parents give up and place the child in a deaf school. So the schools need to learn how to work with deaf children.. because from what I've seen.. They haven't done a good job of it.

Deaf schools are good for the child.. but I think that parents need to fight for their children. Instead of expect teachers to be an advocate, Parents need to step up to the plate themselves. Advocate for their children, not just sit by and watch their children fail. Also, parents need to help their children at home too. Some parents are too busy working or focused on other things to really help their children.

I'm not bashing parents in general.. I know most parents help their children. I've just seen some truly horrible parents in my lifetime.. Ick.

The part about parents needing to advocate for their children to remain in the mainstreamed program instead of sitting back and watching their child fail and then dumping them at the deaf schools, I have to disagree. My mother did put my brother in a good oral program and fought for his rights at my school but the real truth was that my brother was not thriving on the oral-only approach. When my school referred him to the deaf school, they felt that his needs would be better met there and turned out that my school was right. My brother blossomed and thrived academically at the deaf school. If it wasn't for placing him there, he would have never learned how to read and write cuz simply put, he could NOT develop language through the oral-only method. If my school had provided an terp, it would have been pointless cuz my brother, at the age of 5, didn't know ASL. He needed to be in a signing environment full time so his language development could flourish. There would have been no way for that to be possible if his only exposure to ASL was from an terp and then having to learn how to read and write without a strong language foundation. He wouldn't have a visual language through socializing with hearing peers anyway.

When my brother started at the deaf school at the age of 6, he was at least 3 years delayed in language development so he wasn't ready to learn how to read and write when he was supposed to be. He was put in a specialized class at the deaf school for language development. I gotta say that his school did a heck of a good job cuz right now he is studying for his MA. It was the best thing for him even though he graduated high school with a reading/writing level below than his age appropriate level but that came from his first 5 years of having very limited access to language not because the school didn't do a good job. Eventually, as an adult..he improved his reading and writing skills and now is able to write research papers. Just some mistakes with grammar structure but u know that English grammar rules r pretty complicated!!!

People need to keep that in mind when they blame the deaf schools for students having low reading/writing levels...I see it at the deaf school I work at..half of the PreK children come to our school with virtually no language so they have to start at square 1 at the ages of 3 or 4. Not to mention older deaf children being referred from the public schools who were unable to keep up. Those students at the age of 7 or older have to learn ASL when they should be learning how to read and write. How could they if their spoken language was at the level of a 3 year old? Maybe it is the parents' fault or the public schools' fault for not taking action sooner? We would never know but the point is, unfortunately for the deaf schools, many of our students enter our schools at least 2 or 3 years delayed in language development and that sucks cuz we get the blame if not all of our students don't perform on their age appropriate levels in academics.

Also, have to remember that many of our students graduate with sophisticated levels of ASL which is amazing considering many of them started school with severe delays in language...just needed more time to work on their reading and writing and I noticed that many of my brothers' former classmates from his school finally got their reading and writing skills improved while they were in their 20s. Can't keep kids in school until they are 25 years old, right?

Iam not denying that there are flaws in the deaf schools...but have to remember that the public schools have flaws too. There r hearing kids that don't read or write well but do we blame the public schools? I always read that it was the child or family's fault. But when it comes to deaf schools, it always seems like the deaf schools r at fault. Maybe EVERYONE..community, parents, schools, teachers, students, media and politicans are at fault.

The point it I notice that when several of u posted CONS for going to a deaf school, u listed poor English skills as one of them.

 

[BearBeauty]

Shel.. I'm not blaming deaf schools.. I'm blaming Pubic school idiots who don't understand the deaf. Like you said in a previous post, you wish that you had learned sign at an earlier age, right? And you know I didn't have socialization throughout my school years.

Remember.. you and I grew up fully mainstreamed. Yeah, I know you didn't learn sign and I did, but my point is.. we didn't have deaf culture in our lives as children. And the public school system never really understood how to help the deaf. While they may have tried to help us.. they never really understood.

Sorry, having a hard time trying to express my thought... blame it on the fact I just woke up LOL. Hope you know what I mean. If not.. gimme time to wake up.

 

[Blade Runner]

Deaf Summit? I don't think anyone denied the weaknesses of deaf schools.

Since you're from that site, I'd like you to refute how not acknowledging your and your fellow forum users' weaknesses if you and your fellow forum users were in denial most of the time.

Should be fun to watch you try to explain yourself under a different forum with different rules.

 

[Blade Runner]

Gee, I see a lot of contradictions there.

Gee, I see you not acknowledging the cons. How typical of you, Jeff. You haven't learned anything from the RIT/Lisa Lampaneli fiasco, don't you? Guess not.

 

[shel90]

Shel.. I'm not blaming deaf schools.. I'm blaming Pubic school idiots who don't understand the deaf. Like you said in a previous post, you wish that you had learned sign at an earlier age, right? And you know I didn't have socialization throughout my school years.

Remember.. you and I grew up fully mainstreamed. Yeah, I know you didn't learn sign and I did, but my point is.. we didn't have deaf culture in our lives as children. And the public school system never really understood how to help the deaf. While they may have tried to help us.. they never really understood.

Sorry, having a hard time trying to express my thought... blame it on the fact I just woke up LOL. Hope you know what I mean. If not.. gimme time to wake up.

Oh no no..dont apologize...also that is not what I mean. I agreed with almost everything u stated in your previous post except for the part about parents advocating for their kids' needs to be met at the mainstreamed schools so they could stay. Sometimes, even with all the resources possible that public schools finally do provide, it is still not enough. In some cases, placing the child at the deaf schools is the best decision cuz there are some resources that deaf schools have that public schools couldnt provide: all-signing environment, deaf peers, ASL storytellings, and deaf staff.

I did agree with u in your previous POV about blaming the public schools for not understanding.

 

[deafdyke]

But If more schools would do Early intervention, or at least have the deaf exposed to total communication

Actually, Shel, and BearBeauty.........maybe instead of fighting for students, public schools and deaf schools could colaborate, creating a really good education.

 

[BearBeauty]

You have a REALLY good point there, deafdyke. And I have seen this going on right now. In my home state... the deaf school closed the high school, and transfered all their high school students to my old high school. I've met some of the deaf students who are in those classes.. and I have to say that for the most part, it seems to be working.. but the deaf school is being very restrictive with the deaf students. And I don't agree with this method.

 

[shel90]

You have a REALLY good point there, deafdyke. And I have seen this going on right now. In my home state... the deaf school closed the high school, and transfered all their high school students to my old high school. I've met some of the deaf students who are in those classes.. and I have to say that for the most part, it seems to be working.. but the deaf school is being very restrictive with the deaf students. And I don't agree with this method.

What do u mean by being restrictive with the deaf students?

Arizona Schools for the Deaf and Blind have collaborations with the public schools throughout AZ.

MSD does have a collaboration with the counties but only for early childhood education. MSD administrators had to fight for that with the state to get funding for the collaboration. I just wish the state was more flexible with the funding but the taxpayers have to vote for the addmendments and usually they denied cuz people dont want to pay more taxes. It is a tough situation, really.

 

[BearBeauty]

what i mean by restrictive is... OK.. let me paint a picture of the high school first...

It's in the middle of Downtown... there are stores, resturants, ect ect around the school... and during Lunch Breaks, students are allowed to leave the building to get lunch and whatever... However.. the deaf school that puts students in the public school.. has a strict policy that deaf students are NOT allowed to leave the building even for lunch. which is restrictive toward deaf students when hearing students have MORE freedom.

ALL deaf students must return to the deaf school at 2:30pm daily.. Which basically translates into.. they don't have time to have fun with other students... so basically deaf students are still restricted even if their parents give them permission to be unrestricted.

When I was a student at the school.. I had freedom to leave the school grounds for lunch or whatever.. whereas current deaf students are restricted?

 

[shel90]

what i mean by restrictive is... OK.. let me paint a picture of the high school first...

It's in the middle of Downtown... there are stores, resturants, ect ect around the school... and during Lunch Breaks, students are allowed to leave the building to get lunch and whatever... However.. the deaf school that puts students in the public school.. has a strict policy that deaf students are NOT allowed to leave the building even for lunch. which is restrictive toward deaf students when hearing students have MORE freedom.

ALL deaf students must return to the deaf school at 2:30pm daily.. Which basically translates into.. they don't have time to have fun with other students... so basically deaf students are still restricted even if their parents give them permission to be unrestricted.

When I was a student at the school.. I had freedom to leave the school grounds for lunch or whatever.. whereas current deaf students are restricted?

Wow..that is stupid of the deaf school to do that but I wonder if the school is afraid of being held liable if something happens to the students while out on lunch break. The public schools system has more money than the deaf schools which are state funded. Maybe that cud be the reason..cant afford a lawsuit so therefore putting the restrictions? Still, it is wrong, though. UM...wonder if something can be addressed to change that policy?

 

[Tousi]

what i mean by restrictive is... OK.. let me paint a picture of the high school first...

It's in the middle of Downtown... there are stores, resturants, ect ect around the school... and during Lunch Breaks, students are allowed to leave the building to get lunch and whatever... However.. the deaf school that puts students in the public school.. has a strict policy that deaf students are NOT allowed to leave the building even for lunch. which is restrictive toward deaf students when hearing students have MORE freedom.

ALL deaf students must return to the deaf school at 2:30pm daily.. Which basically translates into.. they don't have time to have fun with other students... so basically deaf students are still restricted even if their parents give them permission to be unrestricted.

When I was a student at the school.. I had freedom to leave the school grounds for lunch or whatever.. whereas current deaf students are restricted?

Oh my gosh! Did they provide staff with cattle prods, too!

 

[Yiffzer]

Gee, I see you not acknowledging the cons. How typical of you, Jeff. You haven't learned anything from the RIT/Lisa Lampaneli fiasco, don't you? Guess not.

Well, you have said that mainstreamed schools are more mature. Then you have said that deaf schools are more mature too. Which is more mature?

 

[Yiffzer]

Since you're from that site, I'd like you to refute how not acknowledging your and your fellow forum users' weaknesses if you and your fellow forum users were in denial most of the time.

Should be fun to watch you try to explain yourself under a different forum with different rules.

You're going to have to show me what you mean by "not acknowledging your and your fellow forum users' weaknesses".

 

[shel90]

Well, you have said that mainstreamed schools are more mature. Then you have said that deaf schools are more mature too. Which is more mature?

I think in both there will always be mature people and immature people. What about those kids in public schools bringing guns and bombs? That mature behavior? Same for deaf schools with some immature deaf kids bringing knives to school. No difference.

 

[Yiffzer]

I think in both there will always be mature people and immature people. What about those kids in public schools bringing guns and bombs? That mature behavior? Same for deaf schools with some immature deaf kids bringing knives to school. No difference.

Exactly.

Jordan, read this post.

 

[BearBeauty]

Liability is not an issue at the public school becuase they have people at stopwalks checking students to make sure they arrive safe when crossing the street.. And most of the stores are within a 5 min walk of the school.. so the whole thing is ridiculous. I think it's more the deaf school wants to control the students.. and no, the staff don't have cattle prods.. that i've seen.

I don't know why they have these rules.. but IF you ask me.. it does sound rather stupid.

 

[shel90]

Liability is not an issue at the public school becuase they have people at stopwalks checking students to make sure they arrive safe when crossing the street.. And most of the stores are within a 5 min walk of the school.. so the whole thing is ridiculous. I think it's more the deaf school wants to control the students.. and no, the staff don't have cattle prods.. that i've seen.

I don't know why they have these rules.. but IF you ask me.. it does sound rather stupid.

Control the students...eeeh...that would seem extreme if that's the school's sole reason but never know.

Can u PM me the name of the deaf school and I can ask around to see if I can find out why they have that policy?