Heath

Ahhhhhh !!!! I see why now ..... Duh !!!!! {Mod Edit: comment removed} You still are missing my point. You are totally focused on police brutality. I know that stuff goes on.

What you are not getting it is that why don't you question why the criminals are breaking the law in the first place and as soon as the honest hard working police use excessive force, you are blind to the fact that the criminals broke the law in the first place. You cry, point your finger and stomp your feet at each and every police officer you see beating the shit out of somebody who damn well deserves to get his ass kicked the shit out of him !!!!!

I am not talking about cops that rape and murder. That stuff is sick. I am talking about normal cops who are fighting for their own life yet, you label these honest, hard working police officers with police brutality.

That is my question. Can you honestly answer me why ?

Deafness

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Heath

Operatorally, I would not be surprised if you labeled these very hard working honest law enforcement officers with police brutality.

Knife wielding criminal gets shot - Google Video

Heath

Operatorally, Criminals do not care about your human rights period.

I do care about your human rights. I am also more realistic about what goes on and that is why if a criminal is going to take me out then I have every right to stop the criminal by whatever means no matter how brutal it is because the criminal is a brutal animal himself.

He does not understand compassion nor will he most likely understand love or being reformed or any of those things women like you so much dream about.

None of these things in reality are gonna ever happen. You are very un-realistic. I would say about 99% of the criminals only care about murder, rape and commiting crimes by day and night and he won't care about love, compassion or being reformed, in real life. I have seen and experienced the savageness of criminals up close and personal. Even years now, he is not gonna care about love, compassion or being reformed. He is still a sick, evil animal.

He understands one thing, brutality, savageness and intense violence and being a sick animal with no normal range of emotions and he is incredibly selfish and greedy. He won't just understand period.

I have normal range of emotions and everything and I am able to make good common-sense decisions in my daily life. I do not look for victims all day long like those sick, evil criminals. I work and go home and I am a normal law abiding American citizen. Sure, I have been there and done that. I may be alittle off and my view of the world may be skewered but at least, I have a realistic point of view on how the real world, at its core works. I have human compassion, I understand love and compassion and being fair, honest in my dealings with people.

These criminals don't even understand that nor will they ever be capable of ever understanding that, ever. Trust me on that one !!!!!

Foxrac

Well, He's from Canada and police system can be different from USA based on human rights.

Just ask Lilly's dad if he know about system in Canada.

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rockdrummer

Sorry but you are wrong. It's a known fact that there are police out there that are prejudice and corrupt. A better thing to say is that we should not draw a conclusion based soley on the video. We need to find out exactly what happened first. While some police are prejudice and corrupt, there are may who are not. There are only rare cases where the police should use excessive force to arrest someone. I don't condone crime but just becasue someone has committed a crime doesn't entitle them to a beating by the police.

Heath, you seem to be stuck on why someone commits a crime in the first place and glossing over the un warrented beatings that do occur. You can't say that police brutalitiy is ok just because someone has committed a crime. In fact, it's a crime when police use excessive force that is not warrented.

I have total respect for good cops. I have no respect for people (cops or not) that disrespect other people and their human rights and that are prejudice. What would you think about 3 black cops beating the shit out of a white guy that just committed a robbery but was in compliance with the police. Do you think that is justified?

Cheri

I agree! and welcome back rockdrummer, misses you dude!

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Heath

That is not going to happen because I obey the law. I never said police brutality is okay when it is really not warranted. People here have not even bothered to notice why these people in the video clips have broken the law in the first place and they do deserve to get their ass kicked the shit out of them. People here ignore the obivous facts and focus on just two words. Police Brutality when it is really not police brutality at all. That is why !!!!!

Berry

Maybe. My brother in law is a good man and was a good cop. He retired.

He once arrested a young man who was busy putting stolen rims on his car. He claimed to have bought them from a yard sale. My brother in law and his partner went to the yard sale. It was run by people they knew to be thieves and as they drove up these people were gathering items up and running them into the house.

My brother in law and his partner believe they were hiding stolen property and believe they sold the rims to the man they arrested. They said so in their report. But they did not have sufficient cause to search the house and the people running the sale swore they had never seen the arrested person before let alone sell him rims.

The police had no choice but to act on the evidence at hand and take the arrested person to jail, letting the courts decide. The judge weighed the evidence and sentenced him.

One thoughtless act, not insisting on a reciept, got him a record.

rockdrummer

Uhm... what is not going to happen?? I don't even know what that comment is relating to in my post.I read your posts and get the impression that you believe someone getting their ass kicked by the police is warranted just because they have committed a crime. Please correct me if I am wrong. It doesn't matter if they have committed murder. Everybody in this country is innocent until proven guilty. It's not the job of the police to determine guilt. Everyone should be treated equally by the police. Now if a person resists arrest or commits an additional crime by not being in compliance with police orders, then all bets are off and they will most likely get a justified ass kicken for that reason. Not for the original alleged crime. By the way, that Chris Rock video you posted is freakin hilarious.

Lillys dad

Cheri,
Wait a minute, I say basicly the same thing and get get arguments from you, someone else say it and you agree ???????


Operatorally, Thank you, at least you provided more sources.
As I said, I never said that police were not corrupt. I said that corruption was not as wide spread as you all seem.

Rockdrummer, It is good to have you back.

On a related note to this thread. Did anyone catch the documentry on the two LA reporters that blew the whistle on the corrupt cops the led to the whole Rampart Division? That was an amazing story. Those reporters had balls of steel. Instead of making wild unsubstanciated claims, they did their homework, and did it right. They used the freedom of information act to obtain documentation of several incidents. In the end, they approached the board of polce commisioners with the info that they themselves approved. The commisioners were never aware of the exact details of certain incidents. Due to dept. policy, the comm. got a watered down version of incidents. ANyway, this just shows that it is not a corrupt career field from all levels. One of the biggest corruption investigations showed that there were only a corrupt few that took advantage of the system and the knowledge they had of it.
On a related note to that, I know a federal corections officer that works in the fed. prison in Joliet Il. She says that one of the cops caught in the rampart division is in her cell block. She says that he severed all ties with the police world, is covered in gang tattoos, and has acceptance from the gangs because he shows all of these fed prisoners the police training tactics, and the weeknesses. HE SHOWS CRIMINALS HOW TO KILL COPS. Now with that said, t5his shows the mentality of the corrupt cops out there. Its not just the public they will screw over in a heart beat. They will jepordize anyones safety to help themselves out. This is actually one of the many reasons that honest cops cannot stand corrupt cops. They olny care about themselves.

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Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005
CI left ear Jan 17 2007

Heath

I have heard of bad ex-police officers teaching anothers in prison and that is never a good thing.

A simple solution would be to have a prison designed just for the bad ex-police officers and house them there.

Cheri

Oh oops! Forgot to quoted which part, I only agree with two lines of his post

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Banjo

Don't they have prisons for soldiers in the USA? Just asking since I remember the movie, 'The Last Castle" being set in an army prison.

Heath

Yes, they do have brigs ( military prisons ) for the ex-military here but not enough ex-police officer's prisons. Most ex-police officers are thrown in civilian prisons. This is being changed slowly. There will be more ex-police officer's prisons being built in the future.

Banjo

Then why not throw them in the military prisons instead? It also would spare the taxpayers the costs of building more prisons.

rockdrummer

Being ex-military I can tell you that there is a prison called Leavenworth (in Kansas) where they send military and politicians to. But it like every other prison is overpopulated.

Oh, and Thanks Cheri and Lily's Dad. It's nice to see you guys too.

operatorally

Actually, from what you've said about homosexuality in other threads, I can tell that you don't care about my human rights and clearly support people who would have them annihilated.

How can I be the one who is unrealistic when you Heath, are the one claiming that all criminals spend their days dreaming of rape and murder? If we were to lump all people who break the law into a group, I hardly think that 99% of them would be murderers and rapists! Perhaps Lily's Dad can provide some stats here, or I'll go look them up myself, but there's plenty of criminals out there who are not the kind of savage beasts you dream about.

And frankly, I'm a little confused about your credentials when it comes to this expert information. You are not a police officer, yet from your descriptions of constantly dealing with giant brutal criminal monsters, one would think that you have more policing experience than Lily's Dad! What kind of rambo business are you basing this on?

And no, once someone commits a crime they do not submit themselves to vigilante justice, even if it is carried out by the police. As others have said, people are innocent until proven guilty and an officer's job is to dispense force only as is necessary...

Lillys dad

Valid point Operatorally. If you use the word "criminal" litterally, then everyone is a criminal. A criminal is someone who breaks the law. Well then if you have ever been found guilty of a traffic offense, then you are a criminal. Traffic violations are law violations. Even removing traffic violations, a small % of criminals even plan thei crime let alone daydream or fixate on it. Most criminals, evne violent ones, are opportunistic. The see the opportunity, and act without thought to carrying out the crime, or getting away with it.
But you cannot discount the criminals that do plan the crime out. In fact as I am typing this post, the news is discussing a car jacking in which the car owner got shot six times at point blank range. He lived, one suspect was caught, after a pursuit and an accident. Initially, everyone said the crime appeared to be random. Now they are saying that all 3 suspects knew the victim and preplanned the car jacking.
I am not sure if anyone here has ever heard of the 90/10 theory. But it simply states that 90% of the crime is committed by 10% of socitey.
Operatorally, I am not trying to start the whole argumnet again, but I do have a question for you. If you agree that people are innocent until proven guilty, then why do you automatically assume that cops are guilty and corrupt? We are people and citizens also.

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Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005
CI left ear Jan 17 2007

rockdrummer

This is a good question if in fact that is how operatorally feels. I have total respect for the cops but I also know (living in Chicago area) there are bad cops out there and not just in Chicago. Personally, I think that everyone should be treated the same. Innocent until proven guilty. It's a fair just system. I would never assume cops are guilty until there has been an investigation and guilt is proven with facts and evidence and the case has gone through due process. The same applies for an alleged criminal.

Lillys dad

Thank you. That has been the big issue for me throughout this thread. Why is it ok to assume a cop is guilty but you cannot say that about anyone else?

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Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005
CI left ear Jan 17 2007

Lillys dad

Well?

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Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005
CI left ear Jan 17 2007

MaxUFC

Shat happened. At least, we still be lucky to live in USA, not another country?

There got few bad apples in the police dept.


Or worst crime ones done to this policewoman : LiveLeak.com - Female cop gets beat up bad

MaxUFC

I remmy : Detriot cop shot deaf guy down and jurors gave no guilty over miscommuniction few years ago. Anyone remmy?

It was on Court TV Channel what I saw.

shel90

Lillysdad,

Wow...your posts were very insightful. Made me think differently about cops and what your jobs require from you. I agree with you..we shouldnt jump the bandwagon calling all cops bad just because of a few cops who do that. All cops that I have encountered (for speeding) were very respectful and courteous so I have a lot of respect for your field of work. I go thru the same thing when I read posts in AD bashing many deaf schools for poor education and lousy teachers. I am a teacher so I know how it feels to read that but I just havent been in the mood to argue back for why many deaf schools do poorly. I know why but when I am ready to voice my opinions, I will. Right now, it seems that some people blame all teachers for why many deaf people have poor English skills..*sighs*.

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Lillys dad

exactly. I do not know enough about teaching except that you have a very hard job that I could never do. And thank you for what you do! We need more teachers. You simplt do not get paid nearly enough for what you do. Teaching and nurses......

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Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005
CI left ear Jan 17 2007

shel90

Thanks! Would be GREAT if we get paid more money!!! GRRRR. Anyways, I love it..just only teaching writing is soooo challenging cuz most of my students at the ages of 7 and 8 dont have a strong first language base. Their ASL are weak cuz of their parents trying to get them to develop speech and lipreading skills only so they come to our school with poor ASL and English languages. How can u explain the complexity of the English language to them when their concept of the world is not at the age appropriate level yet? That is what I have to work on figuring out cuz we use the public school curriculm and the language arts section puts so much emphasis on reading thru phonetics.

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rockdrummer

It's not ok for anyone to assume guilt. The assumption should be innocent until guilt is proven. Or at least that is what it should be. There are folks however that just don't like cops. Not much ya can do about that. Personally, I don't understand it other than to assume they have something to hide or perhaps they have encountered a "bad cop" and now think that all cops are bad. Your best bet is to ask them directly and hope they will respond reasonably.

operatorally

I hope I'm not too late here...
You're right Lilly's Dad, that every officer, like any suspect, deserves to be treated with respect until he or she proves otherwise, and that's generally how I approach them in my day to day living.
On the other hand, considering the institutional blocks, like the many problems with how complaints are allowed to be filed etc, I am warier of the police than other authorities, and that's because I know that they are in many cases invulnerable to prosecution should they step over the line. I also know that certain forces in certain cities have very bad reputations, so that is also a factor. Where I am currently living I feel more trusting than in the city I lived in before, just because the reputation of the force here is much cleaner.
When I see officers in my neighborhood talking to people of all kinds, they have a totally different approach, different attitude, different posture, and its definitely the result of a better training system. At first I was quite surprised because I'd never seen anything like it. So I guess I would say that here I am more likely to assume that an officer's innocent, which is the flip side to having considered the other cops a lot scarier.

Overall, I can't deny though that I will always worry about the issue of power and power abuse. I don't want to fault all officers individually for this, but sadly it seems to be a patter repeating itself in many places and I think police forces need institutional change... I hope that reassures you a bit that I want to actually trust the police rather than banishing them altogether.

Berry

Isn't that the crux of everything tho? Who has power over whom, how it is used and why?

Ancient Rome was very concerned over this issue. They believed no one should ever have too much power. And when people did start getting too much power the fall of Rome as a great civilization was not far behind.

When talking about police the situation is complicated by many things, one of which is that even bad cops aren't always bad and even the best cop is apt to have an off day or meet a situation where some personal bias comes thru.

As to deaf people in particular one of the police primary tools is keeping the person they are dealing with off balance, unsure of the situation, and to obtain as much information as possible without giving any information away. The deaf person has even fewer clues than a hearing person, not being able to hear the radio, or other convos that are not being hidden. In my area police make every effort find an interpreter. A good terp will pass on everything they hear, but not all are good, or good enough to pass it all on (especially if a lot is happening at once).

I personally suggest a healthy caution is in order when dealing with anyone who has the power to make your life uncomfortable until you understand exactly what the situation is. You may be being stopped because you have a tail light out, or the real reason may be because you resemble someone who just shot two people in a grocery store down the street.

Liebling:-)))

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