Spelling words the way they sound (Oral habits) - Page 2

jillio · 05-16-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Eh, where's the fun in that? All that is left is to ruefully admit that I am already figured out, and that is frightening.

LOL, I was offering the reference to naisho.

Oceanbreeze · 05-16-2009, 04:33 PM

For what this is worth, I'm a phonetically speller and have been since I was tought to read. I tend to spell things the way they sound to me. I have noticed that my neice and nephew (both hearing) learned to read by sight.

I also pride myself in being a good speller, but I do have a word that drives me batty. The word "seperate". It's spelled wrong, I know. I think I know how to spell it, but haven't taken the time verify the spelling. I admit to being lazy.

Interesting, though, Naisho. For me, phonics was the way to go, but for others, sight reading is better. That goes for hearing as well as deaf, maybe?

**deafskeptic** · 05-16-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

For what this is worth, I'm a phonetically speller and have been since I was tought to read. I tend to spell things the way they sound to me. I have noticed that my neice and nephew (both hearing) learned to read by sight.

I also pride myself in being a good speller, but I do have a word that drives me batty. The word "seperate". It's spelled wrong, I know. I think I know how to spell it, but haven't taken the time verify the spelling. I admit to being lazy.

Interesting, though, Naisho. For me, phonics was the way to go, but for others, sight reading is better. That goes for hearing as well as deaf, maybe?

Oh yeah. Some hearing do poorly with phonics and likewise a few deaf are audtiory learners. I think Shel is one of those few deaf if some of her posts are any example.

Oceanbreeze · 05-16-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Oh yeah. Some hearing do poorly with phonics and likewise a few deaf are audtiory learners. I think Shel is one of those few deaf if some of her posts are any example.

I was always a good visual learner, but with only certain things. When it came to learning to read, I was tought phonectically and I find it hard to switch back and forth.

jillio · 05-16-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Oh yeah. Some hearing do poorly with phonics and likewise a few deaf are audtiory learners. I think Shel is one of those few deaf if some of her posts are any example.

I am one of those hearing that were taught to read using sight reading techniques.

Mrs Bucket · 05-16-2009, 05:15 PM

One thing I know I'm a Grammar Nazi sometimes & will correct hubby's finger spelling. (That and his ASL!)

**Daredevel7** · 05-16-2009, 05:29 PM

I would think that for someone who was raised in a mostly deaf environment would rarely make phonetic mistakes.

You know, sometimes I wonder if Deaf people have a hard time with lolcats pictures at:
Lolcats ‘n’ Funny Pictures of Cats – I Can Has Cheezburger?
since most of the captions are purposefully spelled out phonetically (with some bad grammar added too.)

Mrs Bucket · 05-16-2009, 05:34 PM

OMG, that's our favourite site!

***naisho*** · 05-16-2009, 05:34 PM

This is what I found based on researching and analyzing alldeaf, only:

I found 500 hits of a single word being misspelled. In these 500 hits, I found 45 unique usernames who spelled the word in pronounced form.

The dates of this search ranges from today until early 2008.

In these unique hits, of the 45 users I know for a fact that:

15 of them are confirmed hearing (5 are interps/to be's)
08 are late deafened (confirmed from their testimonials/comments)

13 are Deaf/deaf/hearing impaired (but I don't know their status of late-deaf or oral environment etc, childhood)

09 are of unkown status, and could could be deaf/hearing/late deafened

These are all based on a single instance, not multiple hits.

Then on another common variation in mistake of writing that word (another letter different, but still seems phonetically correct)
79 hits, 16 unique users on AD

In these unique hits:

04 are confirmed hearing, 1 is/was interpreter

05 are deaf, but of unknown deaf background (latedeaf/oral)

07 are of unknown status.

This is a result of my findings, so far based ONLY on alldeaf and it is not to be concluded as empirical in any shape or form, I'm just trying to give you guys "interesting" statistics and maybe fuel the fire.

Thanks for the heads up on the book, Psychology of Deafness, , by Marc Marsharck, et.al. I will look into this for some answers on the conclusive realm.. hopefully.

**Daredevel7** · 05-16-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

OMG, that's our favourite site!

Me too. Been looking at it for years!

**shel90** · 05-16-2009, 05:41 PM

I dont know if I was taught to read using the whole language approach or phonetically. I should ask my mom. When I was a kid, I would get 100% on my spelling tests maybe 95% of the time.

Mrs Bucket · 05-16-2009, 05:42 PM

Hubby said "I don't get it!" when I showed this to him!!

loml · 05-16-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I was always a good visual learner, but with only certain things. When it came to learning to read, I was tought phonectically and I find it hard to switch back and forth.

What do you mean switch back and forth?

loml · 05-16-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

For what this is worth, I'm a phonetically speller and have been since I was tought to read. I tend to spell things the way they sound to me. I have noticed that my neice and nephew (both hearing) learned to read by sight.

I also pride myself in being a good speller, but I do have a word that drives me batty. The word "seperate". It's spelled wrong, I know. I think I know how to spell it, but haven't taken the time verify the spelling. I admit to being lazy.

Interesting, though, Naisho. For me, phonics was the way to go, but for others, sight reading is better. That goes for hearing as well as deaf, maybe?

Children learn to sight read, by simple interaction and repetition. In the school district in my area, children are also taught the phonemes of the alphabet in kindergarten. Once they reach grade one, sight reading is the primary method used, until early March. Then they are taught consonant sounds first, consonant blends and vowels. They also are taught that some of the words in English do not follow the rules of sound to letter, which really then becomes a memorization technique for the letters in that word.

ASLGAL · 05-16-2009, 06:22 PM

Personal observation/Personal Opinion:
I have found that the public schools laziness in embracing "Whole Language" is one of the reasons people do not learn to spell.

I have read many essays as a DAR member and D.A.R.E. Instructor and was horrified at what passes for acceptable work. I had to finally just tell the kids that if I could make it out it would be a contender.

No wonder the kids have no clue why they fail English when they get to the college level. No one knows how to spell or perform basic functions and punctuation.

As an example: we had a young officer, fresh out of college, who could not put a coherent report together. He had to be sent to a basic report writing school and ended up carrying a dictionary in his duty bag at all times. Sad

loml · 05-16-2009, 06:27 PM

ASLGAL:

Quote:

I have found that the public schools laziness in embracing "Whole Language" is one of the reasons people do not learn to spell.

Whole language equates to whole word/sight word for me. Are we on the same page?

Poor literacy skills can have life long effects, there is no denying that.

ASLGAL · 05-16-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Whole language equates to whole word/sight word for me. Are we on the same page?

Poor literacy skills can have life long effects, there is no denying that.

What I saw was accepting misspellings and misuses as the norm. No spelling tests or drills. Very little attention to structure of any kind in written work.
The schools called it "whole language"

I think we are talking about the same thing.

AlleyCat · 05-16-2009, 07:29 PM

I have trouble with mispronouncing some words too. I think when a word is unusually long, I have trouble making it "flow" smoothly. I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I do also mispronounce words that I am not as familiar with. An example I can think of right now is Baton Rouge. I never know whether to say the Baton as "bat-on" or "ba-ton" or "batten" and I don't say that city name enough to remember in between sayings of how I was supposed to say it.

deafbajagal · 05-16-2009, 07:39 PM

Hooks on Phonics didn't work for me.

deafbajagal · 05-16-2009, 07:43 PM

I've seen deaf people misspell based on signing. For example, many of my third graders thought the word "wrong" or "mistake" started with the letter "Y."

Why? Because it is signed with the "y" handshape.

Mrs Bucket · 05-16-2009, 08:36 PM

This isn't relating to spelling but pronouncing.

I've always had difficulty pronouncing words like sheep/cheap, Janice/Janet and so on.

jillio · 05-16-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

This is what I found based on researching and analyzing alldeaf, only:

I found 500 hits of a single word being misspelled. In these 500 hits, I found 45 unique usernames who spelled the word in pronounced form.

The dates of this search ranges from today until early 2008.

In these unique hits, of the 45 users I know for a fact that:

15 of them are confirmed hearing (5 are interps/to be's)
08 are late deafened (confirmed from their testimonials/comments)

13 are Deaf/deaf/hearing impaired (but I don't know their status of late-deaf or oral environment etc, childhood)

09 are of unkown status, and could could be deaf/hearing/late deafened

These are all based on a single instance, not multiple hits.

Then on another common variation in mistake of writing that word (another letter different, but still seems phonetically correct)
79 hits, 16 unique users on AD

In these unique hits:

04 are confirmed hearing, 1 is/was interpreter

05 are deaf, but of unknown deaf background (latedeaf/oral)

07 are of unknown status.

This is a result of my findings, so far based ONLY on alldeaf and it is not to be concluded as empirical in any shape or form, I'm just trying to give you guys "interesting" statistics and maybe fuel the fire.

Thanks for the heads up on the book, Psychology of Deafness, , by Marc Marsharck, et.al. I will look into this for some answers on the conclusive realm.. hopefully.

I think you will find all of the cognitive studies very interesting.

Just a word of caution...make sure that you are actually looking at spelling errors, and not typos. Typos can follow a set pattern, as well.

jillio · 05-16-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I dont know if I was taught to read using the whole language approach or phonetically. I should ask my mom. When I was a kid, I would get 100% on my spelling tests maybe 95% of the time.

Given your age, I'd would venture a guess at the whole language approach.

jillio · 05-16-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASLGAL

What I saw was accepting misspellings and misuses as the norm. No spelling tests or drills. Very little attention to structure of any kind in written work.
The schools called it "whole language"

I think we are talking about the same thing.

True whole language approach is actually pretty comprehensive. I'd call what you describe as the "lazy educator method.".

loml · 05-16-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASLGAL

What I saw was accepting misspellings and misuses as the norm. No spelling tests or drills. Very little attention to structure of any kind in written work.
The schools called it "whole language"

I think we are talking about the same thing.

ASLGAL - Thanks. This acceptance of misspellings spelling and misuse was at what grade level? *curious*

loml · 05-16-2009, 11:50 PM

naisho - Here is an interesting link which discussing the 100 Most Misspelled Words in English. Definitely is definately on there!

100 Most Often Misspelled Words in English

AlleyCat · 05-16-2009, 11:54 PM

Interesting link, loml. While spelling is one of my strong suits, many of the words I saw on that list are words I do see spelled incorrectly often.

Hear Again · 05-17-2009, 03:38 AM

I grew up in the 70s, so I was taught how to read phonetically. Spelling has never been a problem for me.

In fact, I represented my school in 7th grade at the district level spelling bee.

However, as my hearing continued to deteriorate, spelling became more difficult due to my inability to hear clearly. Even now that I have CIs, there are still words that I misspell, so dictionary.com is my favorite source to check my mistakes. I also have spell check enabled in my e-mail program as well as Firefox.

Now watch...There will be a word misspelled in this post that I didn't catch.

Hear Again · 05-17-2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

I've seen deaf people misspell based on signing. For example, many of my third graders thought the word "wrong" or "mistake" started with the letter "Y."

Why? Because it is signed with the "y" handshape.

I used to have this problem when it came to Braille.

For example, in Grade II Braille, the word "that" is written with a letter "t." Whenever I was asked to spell this word, I would indicate "t." Once my itinerant teacher learned about the mistakes I was making, she started requiring me to write words not only in Grade II Braille (contracted), but also in Grade I Braille (uncontracted) so that I could learn how to spell them correctly.

**Em903** · 05-17-2009, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

I have trouble with mispronouncing some words too. I think when a word is unusually long, I have trouble making it "flow" smoothly. I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I do also mispronounce words that I am not as familiar with. An example I can think of right now is Baton Rouge. I never know whether to say the Baton as "bat-on" or "ba-ton" or "batten" and I don't say that city name enough to remember in between sayings of how I was supposed to say it.

It's from French (means red stick) and should be ba-ton (not really pronouncing the n) but most say batten because we are American and we screw up foreign given names. Like we have a Versailles Indiana. Do you really think my Hoosiers say "Vair-sigh"? oh hell no lol they say "Ver-sales" The only Indiana French name my Hoosiers haven't managed to screw up yet is LaPorte Indiana yep, it's la and porte. But then the kicker: Terre Haute. French: Tear (as in to rip) Ote

Hoosier style: Tear(as in rip) but said Tear-a Hote (with the H)

Oh and it killed me to read the 20 or so ways of spelling definitely incorrectly. It's horrible to read definately, grammer, or any misuse of homophones like there, their, they're. But I do find it interesting how the brain processes words...

05-16-2009, 04:33 PM	#32 (permalink)
Oceanbreeze Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: S. FL Posts: 9,967	For what this is worth, I'm a phonetically speller and have been since I was tought to read. I tend to spell things the way they sound to me. I have noticed that my neice and nephew (both hearing) learned to read by sight. I also pride myself in being a good speller, but I do have a word that drives me batty. The word "seperate". It's spelled wrong, I know. I think I know how to spell it, but haven't taken the time verify the spelling. I admit to being lazy. Interesting, though, Naisho. For me, phonics was the way to go, but for others, sight reading is better. That goes for hearing as well as deaf, maybe? __________________ "There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."

05-16-2009, 05:34 PM	#39 (permalink)
*naisho* Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 6,161	This is what I found based on researching and analyzing alldeaf, only: I found 500 hits of a single word being misspelled. In these 500 hits, I found 45 unique usernames who spelled the word in pronounced form. The dates of this search ranges from today until early 2008. In these unique hits, of the 45 users I know for a fact that: 15 of them are confirmed hearing (5 are interps/to be's) 08 are late deafened (confirmed from their testimonials/comments) 13 are Deaf/deaf/hearing impaired (but I don't know their status of late-deaf or oral environment etc, childhood) 09 are of unkown status, and could could be deaf/hearing/late deafened These are all based on a single instance, not multiple hits. Then on another common variation in mistake of writing that word (another letter different, but still seems phonetically correct) 79 hits, 16 unique users on AD In these unique hits: 04 are confirmed hearing, 1 is/was interpreter 05 are deaf, but of unknown deaf background (latedeaf/oral) 07 are of unknown status. This is a result of my findings, so far based ONLY on alldeaf and it is not to be concluded as empirical in any shape or form, I'm just trying to give you guys "interesting" statistics and maybe fuel the fire. Thanks for the heads up on the book, Psychology of Deafness, , by Marc Marsharck, et.al. I will look into this for some answers on the conclusive realm.. hopefully. __________________

05-16-2009, 05:41 PM	#41 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,285 Blog Entries: 3	I dont know if I was taught to read using the whole language approach or phonetically. I should ask my mom. When I was a kid, I would get 100% on my spelling tests maybe 95% of the time. __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

05-16-2009, 06:22 PM	#45 (permalink)
ASLGAL Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 763	Personal observation/Personal Opinion: I have found that the public schools laziness in embracing "Whole Language" is one of the reasons people do not learn to spell. I have read many essays as a DAR member and D.A.R.E. Instructor and was horrified at what passes for acceptable work. I had to finally just tell the kids that if I could make it out it would be a contender. No wonder the kids have no clue why they fail English when they get to the college level. No one knows how to spell or perform basic functions and punctuation. As an example: we had a young officer, fresh out of college, who could not put a coherent report together. He had to be sent to a basic report writing school and ended up carrying a dictionary in his duty bag at all times. Sad __________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ~ Edmund Burke~ "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" ~ Socrates ~

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05-16-2009, 05:15 PM	#36 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	One thing I know I'm a Grammar Nazi sometimes & will correct hubby's finger spelling. (That and his ASL!)

05-16-2009, 05:29 PM	#37 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I would think that for someone who was raised in a mostly deaf environment would rarely make phonetic mistakes. You know, sometimes I wonder if Deaf people have a hard time with lolcats pictures at: Lolcats ‘n’ Funny Pictures of Cats – I Can Has Cheezburger? since most of the captions are purposefully spelled out phonetically (with some bad grammar added too.)

05-16-2009, 05:34 PM	#38 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	OMG, that's our favourite site!

05-16-2009, 05:42 PM	#42 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	Hubby said "I don't get it!" when I showed this to him!!

05-16-2009, 07:29 PM	#48 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,778	I have trouble with mispronouncing some words too. I think when a word is unusually long, I have trouble making it "flow" smoothly. I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I do also mispronounce words that I am not as familiar with. An example I can think of right now is Baton Rouge. I never know whether to say the Baton as "bat-on" or "ba-ton" or "batten" and I don't say that city name enough to remember in between sayings of how I was supposed to say it.

05-16-2009, 07:39 PM	#49 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	Hooks on Phonics didn't work for me.

05-16-2009, 07:43 PM	#50 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	I've seen deaf people misspell based on signing. For example, many of my third graders thought the word "wrong" or "mistake" started with the letter "Y." Why? Because it is signed with the "y" handshape.

05-16-2009, 08:36 PM	#51 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	This isn't relating to spelling but pronouncing. I've always had difficulty pronouncing words like sheep/cheap, Janice/Janet and so on.

05-16-2009, 11:54 PM	#57 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,778	Interesting link, loml. While spelling is one of my strong suits, many of the words I saw on that list are words I do see spelled incorrectly often.

05-17-2009, 03:38 AM	#58 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	I grew up in the 70s, so I was taught how to read phonetically. Spelling has never been a problem for me. In fact, I represented my school in 7th grade at the district level spelling bee. However, as my hearing continued to deteriorate, spelling became more difficult due to my inability to hear clearly. Even now that I have CIs, there are still words that I misspell, so dictionary.com is my favorite source to check my mistakes. I also have spell check enabled in my e-mail program as well as Firefox. Now watch...There will be a word misspelled in this post that I didn't catch.