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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:47 AM   #1
joycem137
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Deaf Coffee Frustrations

I was disappointed with the behavior of the coffee house staff at the local Deaf Coffee this past Friday.

While I was standing in line to buy coffee, the man in front of me was asking the clerk for something. I couldn't make out what he asked her, but she's bringing him, like, everything in the world, from a pot of milk to a cup. She clearly doesn't understand his request, and he's becoming visibly upset by her inability to understand him.

Finally, he points at the receipt machine, so the clerk figures that he wants a copy of the receipt. But there's some sort of problem with the computer, and she's having trouble bringing up the receipt on the computer. After a few minutes of standing there, without explanation or comment, they give up and tell the guy that they can't give him a receipt, without any clarification or explanation. He leaves in frustration, saying something else that I didn't catch, but it seemed upset and frustrated.

I step forward in line, and the woman, thinking that I'm not attending the Deaf Coffee night, apologizes to me about the delay saying, "Sorry about that. He's deaf."

I sort of stared, agape, thinking, "You're apologizing *for him* when you were the one barely making any effort to understand what he was asking for?! What?! " I really didn't know how to react, and my coffee arrived shortly thereafter, so I just walked away.

I was also surprised towards the end of the night when they thought the best way to get everyone's attention to let them know that the store was closing was to shout such at the top of their lungs. It really seemed not the best way to get the message across as I imagine many of the people there would not have noticed him yelling.

I'm thinking about stopping in and saying something to their management about it, as it really seems like they need some help understanding how to be respectful with deaf customers. More than that, I'm just really upset that the clerk blamed her communication problems on the guy in front of me, and felt it necessary to apologize on his behalf.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 10:14 AM   #2
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I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that if I were in that situation, I would most definately ask to have a conversation with the manager, and offer to come in and do some employee education. I would explain that the deaf coffee get togethers are profit making for them, and the better the deaf are treated the more the word will go out and the more customers will come in. If you address it as a financial thing, they are usually more receptive than if you come at it from a social justice perspective. (Sad thing about our society; money is of higher priority than people.)

I can certainly understand why you were upset watching all of this take place. I would have been, as well. Do as your conscience leads you. That is always the best way.

Last edited by jillio; 12-19-2011 at 12:54 PM. Reason: corrected stupid spelling error
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Unread 12-19-2011, 10:56 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by jillio View Post
I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that if I were in that situation, I would most definately ask to have a conversation with the manager, and offer to come in and do some employee education. I would explain that the deaf coffee get togethers are profit making for them, and the better the deaf are treated the more the word will go out and the more customers will come in. If you address it as a financial thing, they are usually more receptive than if you come at it from a social justice perspective. (Sad thing about our society; money is of higher priority than people.)

I can certainly understand why you were upset watching all of this take place. I would have been, as well. Do as your conscious leads you. That is always the best way.
If I do as my conscious tells me, I would be a raging bull in the shop with the aftermath of broken dishes and cups everywhere and the red mist slowly settling down. If I do what my conscience tells me, though, I would take your advice.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 12:52 PM   #4
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If I do as my conscious tells me, I would be a raging bull in the shop with the aftermath of broken dishes and cups everywhere and the red mist slowly settling down. If I do what my conscience tells me, though, I would take your advice.
Oops! Too much reading research on transcranial magnetic stimulation in schizophrenia. Focused on conscious and unconscious.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 02:01 PM   #5
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Well, first of all, that deaf guy needs to learn how to better communicate with clueless hearies. Why in the world was he playing along with her stupid game of show and tell? Come on! He should have written out what he was requesting on a phone or notepad once it was obvious the hearie was a moron. In DC, this kind of thing never happens. If communication can't be established in the first couple exchanges, a piece of paper/menu is exchanged and that's that. Or the guy could have just written out his request prior to stepping up to the counter. What was he expecting? And it's not like the woman was yelling at him and scolding him. Based on the OP, the woman was genuinely trying to be helpful, though obviously clueless. Deaf people have a responsibility to guide hearies in communicating with them when the hearie is being sympathetic and wants to help. I give a FAIL to the deaf guy in this case.

Moving along. The woman apologizing for the man is misplaced, of course, but she was probably embarrassed by her ineptitude and was trying to push the blame on someone else in order to save face. Understandable, but not acceptable.

Yelling at a group of deaf people to let them know it's time to leave? Absolutely not acceptable.

One thing is clear: the staff of this coffee shop needs to be trained in interacting with deaf customers. Why not arrange for a meeting between a couple of leaders of the Deaf coffee group and the managers and staff of the shop? This is what I did when I was trying to get open captions implemented at a local movie theater. The manager actually invited me to come speak with his entire staff. I was honored he made the request, but I brought along my friend who does not speak/read lips and uses an interpreter so they could see that not all deaf people communicate the same way. We talked to them about how to effectively serve deaf/hoh customers. They were grateful and said they really appreciated it. You can do the same with this coffee house. Just avoid being confrontational and accusatory.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 02:22 PM   #6
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Why not just point to cash register or the printout that receipt was needed? Was this person pointing to everything else out there that had nothing to do with receipt??
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Unread 12-19-2011, 02:25 PM   #7
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Why not just point to cash register or the printout that receipt was needed? Was this person pointing to everything else out there that had nothing to do with receipt??
Good point. But that action doesn't really convey what was needed. This request went a little beyond the usually point and receive routine. The Deaf man should have been prepared for that.

Obviously the OP is lacking a little information.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 02:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex View Post
Good point. But that action doesn't really convey what was needed. This request went a little beyond the usually point and receive routine. The Deaf man should have been prepared for that.

Obviously the OP is lacking a little information.
Aye. I came in half way through the conversation between the two, and I couldn't follow most of the exchange, as my CAPD was acting up in the noisy, echoey environment. I only caught a little bit, so I don't know what the whole story was on the conversation happening there.

I'm just annoyed that she decided to comment on it to me, really.

"I'm sorry, he's deaf." seems really rude.

Last edited by joycem137; 12-19-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 02:52 PM   #9
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Why not just pull out a receipt out of your pocket. Just any receipt...just show the receipt and then point to cash register. Problem solved. Receipt given.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 03:36 PM   #10
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Why not just pull out a receipt out of your pocket. Just any receipt...just show the receipt and then point to cash register. Problem solved. Receipt given.
No, dude, that does not solve the problem. How is someone supposed to know that you want a copy of the receipt by doing that? They could interpret that in any number of ways. Need to be more clear.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 03:46 PM   #11
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Aye. I came in half way through the conversation between the two, and I couldn't follow most of the exchange, as my CAPD was acting up in the noisy, echoey environment. I only caught a little bit, so I don't know what the whole story was on the conversation happening there.

I'm just annoyed that she decided to comment on it to me, really.

"I'm sorry, he's deaf." seems really rude.
I agree. Aplogizing like that to another customer is insensitive and patronizing. She needs a lesson in common curtesy and respect.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 03:49 PM   #12
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Why not just pull out a receipt out of your pocket. Just any receipt...just show the receipt and then point to cash register. Problem solved. Receipt given.
The least of the problem here was a lack of understanding. The problem is the staff's patronizing attitude toward the deaf. It is the responsibility of both to remove communication barriers. The problem was the fact that this worker thought it was appropriate to apologize to another customer for this man's deafness, as if he, and only he, were responsible for the difficulty. The problem is that this staff member assumed that everyone else was as intolerant and uncooperative as she herself was.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:17 PM   #13
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Well, maybe the clerk did stick her foot in her mouth....I just feel it wasn't intentionally....Clerks are taught to say "I'm Sorry" a lot to the customers if there is a long wait...or whatever....If the deafie would have wrote down exactly what he needed, all this much ado about it would not have happened!

She (the clerk) was probably a young girl...and all I would have said back to her was...."No worries!...I'm deaf also"....I do feel the clerk was not actually apologizing for the deafie becuz he was deaf....she was just apologizing for the wait....(not understanding what the deafie needed). .....

I've seen many many deafies trying to make their order to a clerk and the clerk could not understand them...hence, a pad and pen would suffice...and the clerk says over and over "I'm sorry"....but "what?".....

As for the shouting that the store was about to be closed....seems just dimming the lights would have worked......Seems to me most people do know what time most stores do close wherever they go.....the workers there want to go home too....
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:28 PM   #14
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Communication is ALWAYS a two-way street. We are certainly within reason to berate the clerk for insensitive behavior, but we need to separate that from the other situation here, which is that the deaf man failed to appropriately facilitate communication just as much as the hearing person failed.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:30 PM   #15
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Well, maybe the clerk did stick her foot in her mouth....I just feel it wasn't intentionally....Clerks are taught to say "I'm Sorry" a lot to the customers if there is a long wait...or whatever....If the deafie would have wrote down exactly what he needed, all this much ado about it would not have happened!

She (the clerk) was probably a young girl...and all I would have said back to her was...."No worries!...I'm deaf also"....I do feel the clerk was not actually apologizing for the deafie becuz he was deaf....she was just apologizing for the wait....(not understanding what the deafie needed). .....

I've seen many many deafies trying to make their order to a clerk and the clerk could not understand them...hence, a pad and pen would suffice...and the clerk says over and over "I'm sorry"....but "what?".....

As for the shouting that the store was about to be closed....seems just dimming the lights would have worked......Seems to me most people do know what time most stores do close wherever they go.....the workers there want to go home too....
I doubt that it was intentional. That is why training would be beneficial. So she would understand what is appropriate and what isn't.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:30 PM   #16
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Was management aware and give permission for there to be a Deaf Coffee Chat? Here in Houston we have three a month and we always inform and get permission from management to be allow to use the establishment. By planning ahead this type of problem is always avoided. Reads like someone dropped the ball in the OP.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:31 PM   #17
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Communication is ALWAYS a two-way street. We are certainly within reason to berate the clerk for insensitive behavior, but we need to separate that from the other situation here, which is that the deaf man failed to appropriately facilitate communication just as much as the hearing person failed.
Yes, it is always a two way street. Which is why I said that no single person was responsible for the difficulty with the communication.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:32 PM   #18
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Was management aware and give permission for there to be a Deaf Coffee Chat? Here in Houston we have three a month and we always inform and get permission from management to be allow to use the establishment. By planning ahead this type of problem is always avoided. Reads like someone dropped the ball in the OP.
Why in the world would they need permission to use a restaurant that is open to the public and spend their money. That is just absurd.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:38 PM   #19
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Was management aware and give permission for there to be a Deaf Coffee Chat? Here in Houston we have three a month and we always inform and get permission from management to be allow to use the establishment. By planning ahead this type of problem is always avoided. Reads like someone dropped the ball in the OP.
I sent a letter to the organizer about it, but I don't know anything further. I'm sure all is well. She seems like she's got a handle on things, and expressed some of the same sentiments seen here.

My girlfriend, who used to go to this deaf coffee when she was studying ASL, said that the staff used to better about this stuff and was surprised to hear that they were being less good lately.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:39 PM   #20
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Why in the world would they need permission to use a restaurant that is open to the public and spend their money. That is just absurd.
Well, it is a large, multi-hour social gathering, not just a small group meeting or something. I figure any group of that size would need special permission to hold it there, or at least need to communicate with the staff, which I'm sure they've done. They've been doing this for 10 years there.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #21
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Why in the world would they need permission to use a restaurant that is open to the public and spend their money. That is just absurd.
To get seating for a large group together rather than take your chances on what seating can be found upon arrival.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #22
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Why in the world would they need permission to use a restaurant that is open to the public and spend their money. That is just absurd.
Are you kidding? Lot of people don't buy, and it takes up the restaurant space. It's always arranged. It's not a spontaneous activity.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #23
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Well, it is a large, multi-hour social gathering, not just a small group meeting or something. I figure any group of that size would need special permission to hold it there, or at least need to communicate with the staff, which I'm sure they've done. They've been doing this for 10 years there.
The Deaf socials I attend are always held in the same restaurant/bar. The management really doesn't care who is there or how many of them are there because filling the place with deaf people is the same as filling it with hearing people. Money is money.

But you are correct. If they have been using the same location for 10 years, the business has come to expect them. They just need to do a little sensitivity, cross cultural training with at least one employee.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:47 PM   #24
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Are you kidding? Lot of people don't buy, and it takes up the restaurant space. It's always arranged. It's not a spontaneous activity.
Not being spontaneous does not mean having to get permission for deaf people to gather there. That is crossing into some sticky territory.

I see hearing groups gather at restaurants all the time, and not all of them are purchasing something. Many are just there to socialize. They do not have to get permission, and the waitresses expect them to be there at a certain hour on a certain day each week.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:50 PM   #25
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To get seating for a large group together rather than take your chances on what seating can be found upon arrival.
There is a difference between informing the place that you will have a large party of people, and asking permission.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:50 PM   #26
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Are you kidding? Lot of people don't buy, and it takes up the restaurant space. It's always arranged. It's not a spontaneous activity.
You bet...some just go for the social and chat...not buying anything....I got an email awhile back about Starbucks (Deaf Coffee Chat),,and he stated that it would be nice...or "please" buy at least 1 coffee or something!....
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin'robin View Post
Well, maybe the clerk did stick her foot in her mouth....I just feel it wasn't intentionally....Clerks are taught to say "I'm Sorry" a lot to the customers if there is a long wait...or whatever....If the deafie would have wrote down exactly what he needed, all this much ado about it would not have happened!

She (the clerk) was probably a young girl...and all I would have said back to her was...."No worries!...I'm deaf also"....I do feel the clerk was not actually apologizing for the deafie becuz he was deaf....she was just apologizing for the wait....(not understanding what the deafie needed). .....

I've seen many many deafies trying to make their order to a clerk and the clerk could not understand them...hence, a pad and pen would suffice...and the clerk says over and over "I'm sorry"....but "what?".....

As for the shouting that the store was about to be closed....seems just dimming the lights would have worked......Seems to me most people do know what time most stores do close wherever they go.....the workers there want to go home too....
Yeah, the "I'm sorry" seemed appropriate. There was a situation with a customer that was not going well, and it delayed the ability of another customer to get service. Sure. Totally appropriate to apologize for the wait to me.

But to blame it on him entirely, and on his deafness, as if I needed this explained to me somehow for some reason?! Yeah. No. Bad. It would have been more appropriate to say, "I'm sorry for the delay. May I help you?"

You're right, though. Not only was she young, she also seemed like a new employee, so she probably was panicking as she was trying to handle a problematic communication barrier as well as learning how to run the register and stuff. Her behavior seems understandable, certainly. It's still inappropriate.

The thing about the lights and the yelling was just another thing that seemed to indicate to me that they didn't get what they were doing or how to deal with deaf/hoh folks.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:55 PM   #28
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You bet...some just go for the social and chat...not buying anything....I got an email awhile back about Starbucks (Deaf Coffee Chat),,and he stated that it would be nice...or "please" buy at least 1 coffee or something!....
But that is the point. Situations like that don't just happen with deaf gatherings. I've seen it happen with AA groups, with church groups, with school groups...none of whom asked permission to be there.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 04:56 PM   #29
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Yeah, the "I'm sorry" seemed appropriate. There was a situation with a customer that was not going well, and it delayed the ability of another customer to get service. Sure. Totally appropriate to apologize for the wait to me.

But to blame it on him entirely, and on his deafness, as if I needed this explained to me somehow for some reason?! Yeah. No. Bad. It would have been more appropriate to say, "I'm sorry for the delay. May I help you?"

You're right, though. Not only was she young, she also seemed like a new employee, so she probably was panicking as she was trying to handle a problematic communication barrier as well as learning how to run the register and stuff. Her behavior seems understandable, certainly. It's still inappropriate.

The thing about the lights and the yelling was just another thing that seemed to indicate to me that they didn't get what they were doing or how to deal with deaf/hoh folks.
Exactly. "Sorry for the wait", or "I apologize if there was an inconvenience" is very, very different from, "Sorry. He's deaf."
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Unread 12-19-2011, 11:05 PM   #30
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Why in the world would they need permission to use a restaurant that is open to the public and spend their money. That is just absurd.
As usual, you are wrong. If a group wants to use the establishment for other than its intended purpose permission must be granted. That is why a business meeting, a social, a birthday party, etc. must be cleared first with management.
Get a clue!
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