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Unread 10-02-2010, 07:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LDNanna View Post
Historically speaking, hearing have patronized the deaf. Feeling superior in the guise of their so called kindnesses. Paternalized the deaf under guise and pretense of knowing "what is good for them".

Bah. Soon we may begin to believe it.

I was of course born hearing as I am late deaf. It did not take long to discover that in some hearing peoples eyes my IQ dropped faster than my audiogram.
To answer your question - no. Why? I am quite capable of making my own decisions, have the right to my own opinion and have earned and fought for the right to make my own informed life choices.

I work hard, put up with prejudices and have earned my stripes. I am late deaf but none the less proud to be deaf. The last person to make decisions for me was my father. The dear man has passed on and so there went the last person respected enough to allow this liberty.
I like your post very much, despite some differences I think we have in our beliefs, LDNanna. I lost my dad not long ago and feel the same way.
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Unread 10-02-2010, 07:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Not interested in challenging deaf people? They ARE deaf people, what do you mean by that?

In my case, my daughter is too young to write and join an online community. I'm hearing, yet part of the deaf community in order to understand and learn whatever I can from those who have trodden the path before and to make it possible for her to be exposed to Deaf culture and those with common experiences as a child. If I were not participating, she would not otherwise have an opportunity to interact with those who are deaf.

I know quite a few older children with CIs who do not participate in online forums such as this because -- frankly -- what is there for teenagers here, whether deaf or hearing? Are there a whole bunch of 14 - 20 YO unaided deaf here speaking for themselves? They are all out there looking for fun and friendship, their friends are on Facebook, the people they know in school, in real life. The experiences being related here are rarely relevant to today's high school age kids who've been wearing CIs since they were 1 or 2: they didn't grow up in the old oral schools described here, they likely didn't have a bi-bi program nearby, they grew up in communities of HA/CI children like themselves or in mainstream environments. The oldest early implantees, the pioneers who got their CIs pre-FDA approval trials, are 21, right? And until recently the Deaf community rejected them and their families outright. So they don't see the Deaf as their own "People." There are not yet 30 - 40 YOs out there who have grown up with CIs from toddler years.
if they disagree with us, they can tell us themselves but I don't think they are interested. I know they are deaf but I don't know if they like to be refer as deaf or CI deaf or what. I let them tell us how they like to be refer. For the meanwhile I know alot of us are comfortable with the word "deaf"

I know, I was a public school kid myself. I know they have friends , activties, sports, and even boyfriends (like myself in high school) I still think teens can be sensitive especially about hearing loss, so I'm very careful around them even if I disagree with how they view us.
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Unread 10-02-2010, 08:05 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LDNanna View Post
Historically speaking, hearing have patronized the deaf. Feeling superior in the guise of their so called kindnesses. Paternalized the deaf under guise and pretense of knowing "what is good for them".

Bah. Soon we may begin to believe it.

I was of course born hearing as I am late deaf. It did not take long to discover that in some hearing peoples eyes my IQ dropped faster than my audiogram.
To answer your question - no. Why? I am quite capable of making my own decisions, have the right to my own opinion and have earned and fought for the right to make my own informed life choices.

I work hard, put up with prejudices and have earned my stripes. I am late deaf but none the less proud to be deaf. The last person to make decisions for me was my father. The dear man has passed on and so there went the last person respected enough to allow this liberty.
Great post
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Unread 10-03-2010, 07:37 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Projecting a cure = eradication = pride of hearing...
In fairness to the hearing, it's also SOME of the deaf that actually wants to hear better.

I even do know of some of the culturally deaf that had a CI yet they continue to hang out with their culturally deaf friends and sign, etc.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 07:59 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Should the Deaf community accept hearing people calling deafness defective or that Deaf people need to improve themselves by getting CIs or seeking a cure.? Or that we should assimilate in the hearing world fully>
If so, why?

If not, why not?

For me...NO...because we have the right to be comfortable with our deafness and be respected as contributing citizens to this country. No, we may not live our lives the hearing way but as long as we are contributing to society, why complain about us wanting to stay in the Deaf community and using ASL as our language?
I could answer from a deaf perspective. Sometime I just like the feeling that having better hearing (i.e. since I got my CI) enables me to function a little more like those I'm surrounded with on a daily basis. Not necessarily in a "socializing / partying" sense but little things like walking into the store and communicating with the cashier (i.e. and just like with many of the others, usually doing nothing more than the usual "want a bag?" "yes, please thanks" chit-chat), etc.

For instance, the other day it was dark out and I came out of my apartment onto the parking lot in my community. Whereas there was some guy from a distance that started talking to me. First, I had to do a double take "Are you talking to me? I'm sorry let me get a little closer...". Then I realized he was saying "Your friend is looking for you". And sure enough I turned around and see my friend's car coming. I then waved to the guy and said "I got it. Thanks!", also giving him a thumbs up.

Just using that as an example, that if I did not have the CI or was even wearing just the BTE, I probably would have had the need to be as close to being right in front of the guy in order to communicate with him. Not to also mention there's also a possibility I wouldn't have heard him in the first place. Just little every day occurrences like these makes me appreciate having a little better hearing than I used to...
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:03 AM   #36 (permalink)
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In fairness to the hearing, it's also SOME of the deaf that actually wants to hear better.

I even do know of some of the culturally deaf that had a CI yet they continue to hang out with their culturally deaf friends and sign, etc.
PFH's post wasnt about deaf people wanting to hear. His point was about how people look down on deaf people based on their dB loss rather than see them as equal people.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:18 AM   #37 (permalink)
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In fairness to the hearing, it's also SOME of the deaf that actually wants to hear better.

I even do know of some of the culturally deaf that had a CI yet they continue to hang out with their culturally deaf friends and sign, etc.
Yer 0-3 for the morning. Wow.. That CI gadget of yours doesn't help you read, eh?
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:19 AM   #38 (permalink)
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PFH's post wasnt about deaf people wanting to hear. His point was about how people look down on deaf people based on their dB loss rather than see them as equal people.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:25 AM   #39 (permalink)
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PFH's post wasnt about deaf people wanting to hear. His point was about how people look down on deaf people based on their dB loss rather than see them as equal people.
Yes. That's so sad that Hearing people are simply ignorant, period.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:29 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Yes. That's so sad that Hearing people are simply ignorant, period.
I can agree to that to a degree...it is not their fault that they are ignorant and I give them the benefit of the doubt but it is when they exhibit audist attitudes, that is what I have a big big problem with.

My hubby was so ignorant about deaf people and ASL when we first met but he was willing to keep an open mind. We need more hearing people like that. They are the best!
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:31 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I can agree to that to a degree...it is not their fault that they are ignorant and I give them the benefit of the doubt but it is when they exhibit audist attitudes, that is what I have a big big problem with.

My hubby was so ignorant about deaf people and ASL when we first met but he was willing to keep an open mind. We need more hearing people like that. They are the best!
Exactly. I have NO beef with the hearing problem. My only issues is accessibility.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:45 AM   #42 (permalink)
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PFH's post wasnt about deaf people wanting to hear. His point was about how people look down on deaf people based on their dB loss rather than see them as equal people.
But most of those who have CIs are profoundly deaf, and some may even drop from 95 -100 to 105+ after surgery -- so if anyone has a complaint about being looked down upon based on their audiogram, it's the CI community as a whole.

But honestly -- except for those of us who are living with a deaf person or who are deaf ourselves, most hearing people haven't got the faintest conception of the varying levels of hearing loss, they aren't classifying one person as "better" than another because one has a 60db loss and another a 100 db loss.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:47 AM   #43 (permalink)
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But most of those who have CIs are profoundly deaf, and some may even drop from 95 -100 to 105+ after surgery -- so if anyone has a complaint about being looked down upon based on their audiogram, it's the CI community as a whole.

But honestly -- except for those of us who are living with a deaf person or who are deaf ourselves, most hearing people haven't got the faintest conception of the varying levels of hearing loss, they aren't classifying one person as "better" than another because one has a 60db loss and another a 100 db loss.
Then what is this....

A hearing woman at my hubby's work picnic a few years ago telling me that all deaf people should get CIs so they can improve themselves?

To me, that is looking down on us all because of our dB loss.

Maybe you and others find that acceptable but I dont and I told her off.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:52 AM   #44 (permalink)
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But most of those who have CIs are profoundly deaf, and some may even drop from 95 -100 to 105+ after surgery -- so if anyone has a complaint about being looked down upon based on their audiogram, it's the CI community as a whole.
I am not sure how to respond to this. I must be missing something.

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But honestly -- except for those of us who are living with a deaf person or who are deaf ourselves, most hearing people haven't got the faintest conception of the varying levels of hearing loss, they aren't classifying one person as "better" than another because one has a 60db loss and another a 100 db loss.
Very true.
However 60 db and 100db is very significant. It is the difference between being able to hear with aids, and not really able to hear with aids... The aided ones can get jobs easier than the 100 db. It might not register in the general populace minds but when you see someone "more able" in regards of speaking more likely they will get hired.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:53 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Then what is this....

A hearing woman at my hubby's work picnic a few years ago telling me that all deaf people should get CIs so they can improve themselves?

To me, that is looking down on us all because of our dB loss.

Maybe you and others find that acceptable but I dont and I told her off.
I would have too. And have done so in the past. I was told that I would get free CI's no questions several times from different corporations..
I gave them a piece of my mind. Pretty sure they will not tell anyone else that again.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:57 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I am not sure how to respond to this. I must be missing something.


Very true.
However 60 db and 100db is very significant. It is the difference between being able to hear with aids, and not really able to hear with aids... The aided ones can get jobs easier than the 100 db. It might not register in the general populace minds but when you see someone "more able" in regards of speaking more likely they will get hired.
That can be tricky because I have a 120 db and I can speak a lot better than many people with a 60 db which leads hearing people into thinking I can hear better than them which is the total opposite.

Funny, a few years ago, I went with my friend through a drive through. We didnt want to go inside the restaurant for whatever reason. She has no speech skills but hears at 40 db with hearing aids while I have speech skills but cant hear very well. So, she used her hearing and I used my speech skills to order food through the drive through. It was funny.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 09:59 AM   #47 (permalink)
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That can be tricky because I have a 120 db and I can speak a lot better than many people with a 60 db which leads hearing people into thinking I can hear better than them which is the total opposite.

Funny, a few years ago, I went with my friend through a drive through. We didnt want to go inside the restaurant for whatever reason. She has no speech skills but hears at 40 db with hearing aids while I have speech skills but cant hear very well. So, she used her hearing and I used my speech skills to order food through the drive through. It was funny.
lol Yea I was thinking of the dynamics. i know a couple people who speaks well at 100+ losses.. Its just interesting how it works
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Unread 10-03-2010, 10:15 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Should the Deaf community accept hearing people calling deafness defective or that Deaf people need to improve themselves by getting CIs or seeking a cure.? Or that we should assimilate in the hearing world fully>
If so, why?

If not, why not?

For me...NO...because we have the right to be comfortable with our deafness and be respected as contributing citizens to this country. No, we may not live our lives the hearing way but as long as we are contributing to society, why complain about us wanting to stay in the Deaf community and using ASL as our language?
Isn't this the age old argument of a cultural vs. pathalogical view of deafness?
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Unread 10-03-2010, 10:16 AM   #49 (permalink)
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lol Yea I was thinking of the dynamics. i know a couple people who speaks well at 100+ losses.. Its just interesting how it works
Do you think it is because hearing aids confuse them?
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Unread 10-03-2010, 10:23 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Do you think it is because hearing aids confuse them?
hearing aids confusing them? Whos them?

If its the deaf person, its not confusing them, they know theyre deaf. Some of the deaf people can speak very well like shel.

hearing people? Its more of deluding them not confusing... You lead them to believe you can hear well because you can speak dang well.

Look at Mandy Harvey.... Jazz singer, deeeeeeeeeaf.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 10:40 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Then what is this....

A hearing woman at my hubby's work picnic a few years ago telling me that all deaf people should get CIs so they can improve themselves?

To me, that is looking down on us all because of our dB loss.

Maybe you and others find that acceptable but I dont and I told her off.
I agree with you. I don't think anyone should tell me I should implant my child to 'improve' her (or not to implant my child).
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Unread 10-03-2010, 10:43 AM   #52 (permalink)
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hearing aids confusing them? Whos them?
you know, how they suppose to sound based on what they hear with their hearing aids. I wonder if that confusing for them (deaf people). While some deaf barely use their hearing for their speech skills.
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Unread 10-03-2010, 10:52 AM   #53 (permalink)
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you know, how they suppose to sound based on what they hear with their hearing aids. I wonder if that confusing for them (deaf people). While some deaf barely use their hearing for their speech skills.
aha. Was just discussing this with my friend a few minutes ago.

How do you know what REAL sounds sound like if you've been deaf all your life?

There are hearing losses that hearing aids can't work up to par with.. it's a tricky area.

So.. it all boils down to "learning what sounds goes with what" then go on?
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Unread 10-04-2010, 07:10 AM   #54 (permalink)
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PFH's post wasnt about deaf people wanting to hear. His point was about how people look down on deaf people based on their dB loss rather than see them as equal people.
Sometime it may just come across that way simply cause of the communication barrier. If some hearing people sometime give off the impression that they don't want to spend that much time with you, doesn't necessarily mean "they're looking down on you".

Heck, an hearing person could still even actually have a good opinion of you. But still wouldn't spend that much time with you if he or she feels that it may be a little difficult to communicate with you.

Sometimes it's simply a question of personal compatibility.
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Unread 10-04-2010, 08:19 AM   #55 (permalink)
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It appears that this is a simple case of not "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" but rather "the grass is greener on our own side of the fence". That is the way it should be and everyone should have that understanding, if they did, all would be well with the world. :-)
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Unread 10-04-2010, 09:45 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Should the Deaf community accept hearing people calling deafness defective or that Deaf people need to improve themselves by getting CIs or seeking a cure.? Or that we should assimilate in the hearing world fully>
If so, why?

If not, why not?

For me...NO...because we have the right to be comfortable with our deafness and be respected as contributing citizens to this country. No, we may not live our lives the hearing way but as long as we are contributing to society, why complain about us wanting to stay in the Deaf community and using ASL as our language?
I agree with you. I don't think Deaf= defective, or that deafness needs "fixing"... and I don't think it should be (or should EVER have been) up to hearing people to decide what deaf people need.


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Yes. That's so sad that Hearing people are simply ignorant, period.
Not all of us.
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Unread 10-04-2010, 10:01 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Then why bother bringing it up? What's your motive?
Damn
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Unread 10-04-2010, 10:13 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Should the Deaf community accept hearing people calling deafness defective or that Deaf people need to improve themselves by getting CIs or seeking a cure.? Or that we should assimilate in the hearing world fully>
If so, why?

If not, why not?

For me...NO...because we have the right to be comfortable with our deafness and be respected as contributing citizens to this country. No, we may not live our lives the hearing way but as long as we are contributing to society, why complain about us wanting to stay in the Deaf community and using ASL as our language?
I agree, but, what Tousi said is true.

Parents of newly identified deaf/Hoh children are going to be presented with a myriad of options based on how much of a hearing loss the baby/child has. Reality would dictate that a lot of babies are going to be implanted. That may be a given, so therefore, the attitudes you spoke of in your OP will probably be perpetuated. So, I guess, the question becomes..."How does the Deaf community stop that perpetuation?" Fighting against CI's isn't going to work. Maybe the fight should be insuring that every deaf baby grows up knowing ASL and the professionals of the future has knowledge that is friendly to Deaf culture? Since this is often "medicalized", it has to start there. There needs to be a curriculum change to include courses in the history of the Deaf and ASL.

You're not going to effect change until there is understanding. There isn't going to be understanding until Dr's are exposed to Deaf culture and it's history. You can't have an appreciation of something until you experience it or hear of it. If that makes sense?
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Unread 10-04-2010, 11:47 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I agree, but, what Tousi said is true.

Parents of newly identified deaf/Hoh children are going to be presented with a myriad of options based on how much of a hearing loss the baby/child has. Reality would dictate that a lot of babies are going to be implanted. That may be a given, so therefore, the attitudes you spoke of in your OP will probably be perpetuated. So, I guess, the question becomes..."How does the Deaf community stop that perpetuation?" Fighting against CI's isn't going to work. Maybe the fight should be insuring that every deaf baby grows up knowing ASL and the professionals of the future has knowledge that is friendly to Deaf culture? Since this is often "medicalized", it has to start there. There needs to be a curriculum change to include courses in the history of the Deaf and ASL.

You're not going to effect change until there is understanding. There isn't going to be understanding until Dr's are exposed to Deaf culture and it's history. You can't have an appreciation of something until you experience it or hear of it. If that makes sense?
Makes perfect sense. It's what I'm angling at too.
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Unread 10-05-2010, 06:34 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I agree, but, what Tousi said is true.

Parents of newly identified deaf/Hoh children are going to be presented with a myriad of options based on how much of a hearing loss the baby/child has. Reality would dictate that a lot of babies are going to be implanted. That may be a given, so therefore, the attitudes you spoke of in your OP will probably be perpetuated. So, I guess, the question becomes..."How does the Deaf community stop that perpetuation?" Fighting against CI's isn't going to work. Maybe the fight should be insuring that every deaf baby grows up knowing ASL and the professionals of the future has knowledge that is friendly to Deaf culture? Since this is often "medicalized", it has to start there. There needs to be a curriculum change to include courses in the history of the Deaf and ASL.

You're not going to effect change until there is understanding. There isn't going to be understanding until Dr's are exposed to Deaf culture and it's history. You can't have an appreciation of something until you experience it or hear of it. If that makes sense?
How would you feel that if someone that does not use a wheelchair dictates how all those that does should live?

I still think it comes down to who are YOU to determine how ALL of the deaf should live?
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