Poor aided results above 500Hz - Page 2

Hear Again · 03-16-2009, 06:41 AM

I checked the specs for CIC and they *do* give 30db gain, however the max SPL is only around 107db and that's the problem. Open fit would be a few db better in gain and SPL. They are for mild to moderate loss mostly due to the SPL ceiling/limit. The SPL needs to exceed a person's HL or they will be NR. If I were to wear a CIC or open fit, I probably won't hear a thing above 500Hz because the SPL is less than my HL. The gain of 30db isn't enough for me anyway, it may be enough for you and a minority of people.

If CIs and open fit hearing aids wouldn't work for you, they obviously wouldn't work for me either. Besides, why should I wear a CIC or open fit hearing aid when I could receive considerably more amplification from a BTE?

Hear Again · 03-16-2009, 06:48 AM

HAs are risk free and you can get a free trial. I do benefit from them, now I want to optimize the gains, my audie said he programmed them at 90% but im only getting 60%, I see others getting more gain than 40db!

MEIs don't cause one to lose their residual hearing, so it's no different than a hearing aid. Besides, if insurance pays the cost for an MEI, that's one benefit over hearing aids which insurance doesn't cover.

As for your last sentence in your post, this depends upon a person's hearing loss. You can't judge what one person's aided score is based on your own results because everyone hears differently.

Hear Again · 03-16-2009, 06:50 AM

What type of hearing aids were yours? I can look up the specs including the max gain. Ive mentioned the specs of my HAs and im not getting the max gain according to the specs, especially in the mid frequencies. In a week, im going to a local audiologist(not the same one who dispensed my HAs) and she will test my ears as well as my HAs to see if they are giving the gain the Phonak company claims they are.

I was wearing Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs at the time.

Hear Again · 03-16-2009, 06:53 AM

That's your choice if you want to hear aided at 60db.

Hearing at 60 dB aided wasn't good enough for me -- especially since I had NR at 1000 Hz and above. That's why I was implanted.

My original comment was that I'd rather hear at 60 dB aided than 90 dB unaided.

Hear Again · 03-16-2009, 06:58 AM

deafdude,

The CI team who evaluated Charlotte, Lady, myself and others are experts and know what they're doing when it comes to determining candidacy. I don't mean any disrespect, but please leave it up to the individual and CI team to determine whether an implant is the correct choice. We don't need to be questioned about how much gain we had on our hearing aids or what our aided scores were. Our audis and CI surgeons saw this information and concluded that we all fit the criteria for being a CI candidate.

faire_jour · 03-16-2009, 05:25 PM

There is no "better or worse" residual hearing once the CI is in. A person with 120 db+ loss has the ability to get to where Miss Kat is, (hypothetically of course) it has nothing to do with the fact that she had residual hearing before CI.

Audiologist do NOT aim to get a CI user down to 0 db, that is foolish. They only have the ability to have a dynamic window so big, so if they program to hear every single soft sound, the "louds" would be missed. Plus, why do you need to hear things that soft? Our goal was for Miss Kat to get speech sounds and 25 db is plenty for that.

As for her hearing aids, they were as loud as she could get with still reasonable clarity. Cranking them up to an uncomfortable, distorted level would be ridiculous and counter productive. What good is 25 db if she can't understand or identify any sounds because of distortion?

Miss Kat had reasonable closed set scores with very different words. On the ESP (early speech perception) test she scored as high as 90%, but those were two syllable, very familiar, very different words. (hot dog vs airplane vs toothbrush). But if it was an open set, she would have scored 0 (unless you happened to say baby).

As for the one frequency not being "severe", we had no problem with it. They said it was a useless frequency for speech and she obviously wasn't benefiting enough from her aids. We had no problem with insurace either. She is on Medicaid so we paid exact;y $0 for her CI.

deafdude1 · 03-18-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

If CIs and open fit hearing aids wouldn't work for you, they obviously wouldn't work for me either. Besides, why should I wear a CIC or open fit hearing aid when I could receive considerably more amplification from a BTE?

Well, no arguments here I agree. The biggest problem is the lack of SPL for both of us and lack of gain for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

MEIs don't cause one to lose their residual hearing, so it's no different than a hearing aid. Besides, if insurance pays the cost for an MEI, that's one benefit over hearing aids which insurance doesn't cover.

Well then insurance should be covering HAs as itll cost insurers much less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

As for your last sentence in your post, this depends upon a person's hearing loss. You can't judge what one person's aided score is based on your own results because everyone hears differently.

I will see what my audiologist(s) say about my poor aided results above 500Hz, that's why I made this thread. I have an appointment on the 24th and will be sure to ask her tons of questions and ill be getting an unaided test and an aided test(if she has an anechoic chamber)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

I was wearing Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs at the time.

Ill look up the specs for those, but off the top of my head, aren't those almost as good as Phonak Naida V UP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

Hearing at 60 dB aided wasn't good enough for me -- especially since I had NR at 1000 Hz and above. That's why I was implanted.
My original comment was that I'd rather hear at 60 dB aided than 90 dB unaided.

You also said that when the gain was increased, you experienced distortion and it didn't help improve your speech perception? Did it still improve your ability to hear more environmental sounds? If you say 60db wasn't good enough, what stopped you from maxing out the gains? Regardless not hearing above 750Hz and with how little residual hearing you had, a CI was fine for you. In my case I feel I can and should be getting better than 80db at 2000Hz! I don't care if theres a bit of distortion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

deafdude,

The CI team who evaluated Charlotte, Lady, myself and others are experts and know what they're doing when it comes to determining candidacy. I don't mean any disrespect, but please leave it up to the individual and CI team to determine whether an implant is the correct choice. We don't need to be questioned about how much gain we had on our hearing aids or what our aided scores were. Our audis and CI surgeons saw this information and concluded that we all fit the criteria for being a CI candidate.

The questions are for my knowlege. I am not qualified to make decisions for others(just state my opinion and let them decide) and in fact this thread isn't even about CI, just my own hearing results. By asking others about their unaided and aided scores, I can determine if my own aided scores are normal or if they can be improved. What aided scores others have and are happy with is their choice but I am simply unhappy with an 80db aided score at 2000Hz. I know ive been told it's my ears and ive explained that my hearing aids are "supposed" to give me xxdb gain and my yydb aided score is way below xxdb gain. My audie who sold me those HAs says they were programmed based on my audiogram and are near their max. I made this post in hopes anyone had answers.

My audiologist answered a few of my questions:

My Q: Has transposition been programmed on my hearing aids, if yes what frequencies become transpositioned? So far I have not been able to notice any transposition, maybe it should be reprogrammed?
His A: It has been programmed. if you do not notice it, then it is working correctly.
My new Q: Could you explain more about this? Ive tried several different online sound tests and I can't hear 3000Hz and above, but my parents can. Should transposition be bringing 3000Hz and above down to a lower frequency? I simply hear silence or if I crank the volume on the speakers up, a low frequency hissing/rumbling/roaring/distortion. My dad also hears this distortion so it's the speakers, not my transposition. Maybe the transposition should be modified? What's the minimum frequency right now where transposition starts to kick in? Does it simply transport any frequency above xxxxHz to the same yyyyHz? For example, all frequencies above 1500Hz become transported to exactly 1500Hz?

My Q: Does programming change the SPL or just the gains? I notice that my HAs can give an SPL of up to 142db at 1000Hz. Wouldn't every audiologist need to program that SPL down to 120-130db or it could be uncomfortable or even damage your residual hearing?
His A: Programming allows the changing of all setting. Your hearing aids have been set up for your loss. they are programmed to never exceed a level which would cause you damage. you should notice that loud sounds are loud but they should not hurt.
My new Q: I asked him what gains and SPL was set for me and if they were maxed out above 500Hz.

My Q: From the puretone testing ive done at home(computer speakers, online hearing tests, tone generator), I got the following results: (I told him the results in a list)
His A: the testing you've done at home is not accurate in any way. If it were, then hearing specialists would not have to spend $5000.00 minimum to purchase an audiometer. Testing your way is wrong, inaccurate and can never be used to set up hearing aids.
you receive gain the only way you can hear them, once again computer hearing test is wrong.
My new Q: My home test was only an estimate of my hearing. It's very obvious I hear nowhere near what my dad hears and the disparity grows dramatically at mid and high frequencies. A 1500Hz sound that I can't hear from more than a few inches away from the speaker, my dad hears easily from outside my room. I know ill never get close to normal hearing above 500Hz, I was just wondering if there was any chance I could get even a slight improvement above 500Hz or have my HAs been maxed out above 500Hz?..........I wanted to ask you if it's normal I experience such a dramatic decrease in volume as the frequencies increase? There is a bigger decrease from 1000Hz to 2000Hz than from 125Hz to 250Hz to 500Hz despite my audiogram leveling off at 1000Hz and up. I have a piano at home and noticed this when playing it. My parents barely notice any volume decrease which is expected as their hearing is normal or near normal. I have only 5db worse hearing at 2000Hz than 1000Hz, yet why such a big decrease in volume? Is it just me or does everyone with a profound loss experience this phenomenon?

deafdude1 · 03-18-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

There is no "better or worse" residual hearing once the CI is in. A person with 120 db+ loss has the ability to get to where Miss Kat is, (hypothetically of course) it has nothing to do with the fact that she had residual hearing before CI.

Residual hearing won't alter the results of a CI, but can be useful for a person that alternates between HAs and CI or isn't happy with CI and can fall back on HA. It's also used for hybrid CI designs. How much residual hearing did Kat lose, if any after CI? Some of us consider keeping our residual hearing a big deal and im seeing CI designs and implementation change to increase the odds a person won't lose all their residual hearing.

Quote:

Audiologist do NOT aim to get a CI user down to 0 db, that is foolish. They only have the ability to have a dynamic window so big, so if they program to hear every single soft sound, the "louds" would be missed. Plus, why do you need to hear things that soft? Our goal was for Miss Kat to get speech sounds and 25 db is plenty for that.

Perfect hearing is 0db. I know that todays CI is incapable of getting to 0db, in fact I read the average results was 40db. The fact she got between 15db and 25db is an excellent result. 25db is the minimum that is considered "normal" hearing and she reached that so she is getting speech sounds as expected. I did see that the speech banana extends as far up as 10db for 100% comphrension. 25db would get you pretty high up anyway and would be better than average for CI(or HAs in severe-profound hearing for the matter)

Quote:

As for her hearing aids, they were as loud as she could get with still reasonable clarity. Cranking them up to an uncomfortable, distorted level would be ridiculous and counter productive. What good is 25 db if she can't understand or identify any sounds because of distortion?

Thanks for letting me know. In my case, more gain helps, especially with hearing more environmental sounds. Ive turned the volume down on my HAs and it only made it harder to hear everything, including speech. I am surprised she is getting so much distortion, do you know why? The sounds I hear sound normal to me and when I repeat what I hear, my parents say I repeat it correctly. I only need to get more gain above 500Hz then ill hear speech much better. My audiologist also said if my high frequency hearing loss was a few db less, id hear perfectly with HAs. I know everyone is different. They should design HAs that distort less and benefit everyone with residual hearing.

Quote:

Miss Kat had reasonable closed set scores with very different words. On the ESP (early speech perception) test she scored as high as 90%, but those were two syllable, very familiar, very different words. (hot dog vs airplane vs toothbrush). But if it was an open set, she would have scored 0 (unless you happened to say baby).

Would an open set consist of monosyllable words, including rhyming words? What % is she up to with CI so far? Since everyone is different, howcome some people with hearing worse than hers scores better on speech perception? My audiologist who sold me those HAs says I have the best speech perception for my level of hearing loss he's ever seen and thinks with practice I could get it to a decent %. I know that with CI you still need lots of practice.

Quote:

As for the one frequency not being "severe", we had no problem with it. They said it was a useless frequency for speech and she obviously wasn't benefiting enough from her aids. We had no problem with insurace either. She is on Medicaid so we paid exactly $0 for her CI.

This is news to me. The speech banana covers 125Hz to 8000Hz and some graphs show it extending even below and above that. Also theres lots of low frequency environmental sounds, may I ask if her ability to hear environmental sounds changed? When/if do you plan to go bilateral for Kat?

I am surprised it was so easy for you to get approval from insurance, especially with the amount of residual hearing she has. Ive read lots of stories of how profoundly deaf people struggle for months or years to get approval and some still never get approval and need to pay out of pocket for CI or stick with HAs. Ive always read that severe-profound loss was required and one of them had a graph showing minimum of 75db at 250Hz, 85db at 500Hz, 95db at 1000Hz and up. Have requirements recently become much more lax? Thanks for your answers, so much I can learn!

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 08:29 AM

Ive always read that severe-profound loss was required and one of them had a graph showing minimum of 75db at 250Hz, 85db at 500Hz, 95db at 1000Hz and up.

Severe hearing loss starts at 70 dB, so this person DID have severe-profound hearing loss.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 08:35 AM

Unaided/aided audiogram
3000Hz-115db/NR
4000Hz-120db/NR

How come you're able to hear unaided at 3 and 4K, but you receive NR aided?

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hear Again
I was wearing Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs at the time.

Originally Posted by deafdude1
Ill look up the specs for those, but off the top of my head, aren't those almost as good as Phonak Naida V UP?

The Naidas weren't available back in 2004 when I was evaluated for my first CI.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 08:48 AM

You also said that when the gain was increased, you experienced distortion and it didn't help improve your speech perception? Did it still improve your ability to hear more environmental sounds? If you say 60db wasn't good enough, what stopped you from maxing out the gains? Regardless not hearing above 750Hz and with how little residual hearing you had, a CI was fine for you. In my case I feel I can and should be getting better than 80db at 2000Hz! I don't care if theres a bit of distortion!

In my case, icreasing the gain on my hearing aids did not result in an increased ability to hear environmental sounds. The distortion I heard made environmental sounds very difficult to hear since I couldn't recognize what I was hearing. Once the gain was turned down, I experienced more clarity.

I already indicated that my audi maxed out the gain on my analog and digital aids despite the fact that this went against her recommendations. See this post for details:

Poor aided results above 500Hz

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 08:54 AM

In my case I feel I can and should be getting better than 80db at 2000Hz! I don't care if theres a bit of distortion!

The difference between you and I though is that I wanted to understand speech. You, on the other hand, are satisfied with being able to hear environmental sounds.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 08:58 AM

The questions are for my knowlege. I am not qualified to make decisions for others(just state my opinion and let them decide) and in fact this thread isn't even about CI, just my own hearing results.

I'm afraid that you're the one who turned this into a debate about who should receive CIs and who shouldn't given how many questions you've asked several of us about how much speech discrimination we had pre-CI and how much gain, etc. we had on our hearing aids. You even went so far as to question myself, cdmeggars and faire_jour about our choices for having a CI. Once you were convinced of the fact that I had very little residual hearing before I received my first CI, you seemed comfortable with my candidacy for an implant. So yes, you DID make this a thread about CIs and who should and shouldn't be implanted.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 09:17 AM

My Q: Has transposition been programmed on my hearing aids, if yes what frequencies become transpositioned? So far I have not been able to notice any transposition, maybe it should be reprogrammed?
His A: It has been programmed. if you do not notice it, then it is working correctly.

This isn't what my former CI audi told me. She said that if transposition aids are programmed appropriately, you should be able to hear a very different sound compared to regular hearing aids. What exactly that sound is, I can't say since I've never worn them.

However, she did say that the sound of transposition aids is considerably different than regular hearing aids. This is why she said many people have alot of difficulty adjusting to transposition hearing aids.

My CI audi is the senior audiologist at my CI center. She wasn't the one who evaluated me for my CIs, but I'll ask her to describe how much different transposition aids sound compared to regular hearing aids.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 09:41 AM

deafdude,

I just wanted to let you know that I heard from my CI audi this morning. She will be sending me copies of my latest audiogram as well as my audiogram prior to having 6 electrodes on each CI turned off.

deafdude1 · 03-18-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

Severe hearing loss starts at 70 dB, so this person DID have severe-profound hearing loss.

Which person? But I read about a few who have/had less than 70db still get a CI. I also remember you mentioning that you also know of a few with only a moderate low frequency loss but profound high frequency loss who got CI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

How come you're able to hear unaided at 3 and 4K, but you receive NR aided?

This is one of the confounding questions I have for the audiologists and have posted it here. I have several theories, the most plausable one is that my hearing got worse. I have done aided and unaided tests on my computer using the speakers and online hearing tests and I can't hear 3000Hz aided or unaided.

It could be possible that my tinnitus occured coincidentally at the same time my audie played a 4000Hz tone. Is it supposed to be pulsed(come and go) and sound like a bird chirping? It sounded like "eek....eek.....eek" while the other sounds were continous beeps lasting a duration of 2-3 seconds. I actually wasn't even sure if it was tinnitus or if I actually heard the sound but I raised my hand anyway.

Ive read about cochlear dead spots but its not very likley it happened in my case, usually a such person has a very steeply sloping loss that levels off near 120db and the sounds aren't directly heard but felt, one guy said it felt like a burst of air wooshing into his ears. Play anything loud enough and you can feel the air wooshing out of the speakers. I felt that from my computer speakers.

A third possibility is the audiometer was distorting high frequency sounds and I heard a lower frequency. Ill get more answers when I visit on the 24th(a different audie) and if I respond above 2000Hz, ill ask her to retest me, letting me know "this is 3000Hz" and ill describe what I hear or find out it was a false positive(tinnitus possibility) if I hear nothing upon a retest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

In my case, icreasing the gain on my hearing aids did not result in an increased ability to hear environmental sounds. The distortion I heard made environmental sounds very difficult to hear since I couldn't recognize what I was hearing. Once the gain was turned down, I experienced more clarity.

I already indicated that my audi maxed out the gain on my analog and digital aids despite the fact that this went against her recommendations. See this post for details:

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Poor aided results above 500Hz

Can you describe what the distortion sounded like and why was it occuring for you? I notice very little, if any distortion and the distortion is comming from the speakers if I max out the speaker's volume. I can also feel the speakers vibrating as further proof of distortion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

The difference between you and I though is that I wanted to understand speech. You, on the other hand, are satisfied with being able to hear environmental sounds.

For me, environmental sounds are the most important. Ive never had good understanding of speech nor do I have any concept of understanding speech so I don't miss what I never had. I have CC on TV, don't care for phones and am exceptional at reading lips. I also don't socalize much in person. When I move out of my parent's house I can go days without talking to anyone in person and if I talk to someone, no problem reading lips, also I can email and instant message that person as well as others. So I am focusing on hearing the most environmental sounds(even if they are a tiny bit distorted which I tend not to notice)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

This isn't what my former CI audi told me. She said that if transposition aids are programmed appropriately, you should be able to hear a very different sound compared to regular hearing aids. What exactly that sound is, I can't say since I've never worn them.

However, she did say that the sound of transposition aids is considerably different than regular hearing aids. This is why she said many people have alot of difficulty adjusting to transposition hearing aids.

I noticed no difference except I hear low frequencies much better than with my old HAs. The mid frequencies were slightly louder, most of the extra improvement was in the low frequencies. I notice lots of humming/rumbing/growling sounds comming from cars, air vents, fans, men's voices, etc. Also with both the new and old HAs I can't hear 3000Hz and above. Either transposition hasn't been programmed or is programmed above my capability to hear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

deafdude,

I just wanted to let you know that I heard from my CI audi this morning. She will be sending me copies of my latest audiogram as well as my audiogram prior to having 6 electrodes on each CI turned off.

Thanks so much for your time! Me and others learn so much from your posts and replies!

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 10:26 AM

Which person? But I read about a few who have/had less than 70db still get a CI. I also remember you mentioning that you also know of a few with only a moderate low frequency loss but profound high frequency loss who got CI

The person you mentioned in your post.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 10:28 AM

Can you describe what the distortion sounded like and why was it occuring for you? I notice very little, if any distortion and the distortion is comming from the speakers if I max out the speaker's volume. I can also feel the speakers vibrating as further proof of distortion.

The distortion I heard sounded like a radio turned up as high as it can go volume wise.

According to my CI audi and former hearing aid audi, the distortion occured because I do not have alot of remaining cillia and I did not have any residual hearing at 1000 Hz and above.

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 10:30 AM

Thanks so much for your time! Me and others learn so much from your posts and replies!

You're welcome!

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 10:33 AM

deafdude,

Here's the e-mail I received from my CI audi re: transposition aids.

My e-mail is first, followed by her response.

"I have another question. How does the sound quality of transposition
aids differ from standard hearing aids? Is the sound quality
significantly different? When I asked Farah if I could try transposition
aids during my first CI evaluation, she told me I would most likely have
alot of difficulty adjusting to them given the fact that I've worn
analog BTE hearing aids since 1985."

"Yes-transposition aids sound very different. You are better off with
the implants."

My CI audi's statement about me being better off with CIs was also based on my aided/unaided pre-CI audiogram as well as my speech discrimination of 8% in my left ear with a Comtek FM system using DAI and Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTE hearing aid and 22% speech discrimination in my right ear (also with Comtek FM system and Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTE).

Hear Again · 03-18-2009, 10:39 AM

I also remember you mentioning that you also know of a few with only a moderate low frequency loss but profound high frequency loss who got CI.

All of these individuals either had ossification of the cochlea or rapidly progressive hearing loss. Hence, the reason they were CI candidates.

LadySekhmet · 03-18-2009, 12:23 PM

Also - not all of us have a nice gain in HA's like yours, DeafDude1. I've wore HA's my whole life, and I was able to understand speech pretty well, but I cannot look away and be able to pick it up easily as I could with CI.

I got the CI because my hearing was progressively getting worse, and I knew it would get to the point where NO HA will help. I do not get any type of clarity that I want/need, and the ability to hear in the higher frequencies that would be almost impossible for me to hear without the CI. You have better "hearing" than I do in the lows. Each person is very different from one another. For you, HA is a success story, so I'm impressed.

For me, having Bilateral CI's is a success story. It works perfectly fine, and I can hear 10db - 20db across the board (with exception of 25db, possibly since I wasn't tested yet, in the very high frequencies above 2500hz). I still have to go for MAP sessions and stuff, so there's still a lot of room for improvement. To be honest, there's more ways to adjust a CI than there is for a digital Hearing aids. Not all audiologists have the expertise like yours, so you are very lucky. :-)

Also, if your audiologist is willing, and still can't figure out why you're not getting the gains that you want, you can always request a representative to come over and test it out on you. A lot of CI audiologists do allow representatives to come over to work out the kinks and issues for CI users, and more often the CI user is more than satisfied with the results. Reps pretty much is more of an expert, so it's nice to have them come over and help out. Maybe there's a small thing that your audiologist overlooked, or didn't think about how to program and stuff.

faire_jour · 03-18-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdude1

Residual hearing won't alter the results of a CI, but can be useful for a person that alternates between HAs and CI or isn't happy with CI and can fall back on HA. It's also used for hybrid CI designs. How much residual hearing did Kat lose, if any after CI? Some of us consider keeping our residual hearing a big deal and im seeing CI designs and implementation change to increase the odds a person won't lose all their residual hearing.

Perfect hearing is 0db. I know that todays CI is incapable of getting to 0db, in fact I read the average results was 40db. The fact she got between 15db and 25db is an excellent result. 25db is the minimum that is considered "normal" hearing and she reached that so she is getting speech sounds as expected. I did see that the speech banana extends as far up as 10db for 100% comphrension. 25db would get you pretty high up anyway and would be better than average for CI(or HAs in severe-profound hearing for the matter)

Thanks for letting me know. In my case, more gain helps, especially with hearing more environmental sounds. Ive turned the volume down on my HAs and it only made it harder to hear everything, including speech. I am surprised she is getting so much distortion, do you know why? The sounds I hear sound normal to me and when I repeat what I hear, my parents say I repeat it correctly. I only need to get more gain above 500Hz then ill hear speech much better. My audiologist also said if my high frequency hearing loss was a few db less, id hear perfectly with HAs. I know everyone is different. They should design HAs that distort less and benefit everyone with residual hearing.

Would an open set consist of monosyllable words, including rhyming words? What % is she up to with CI so far? Since everyone is different, howcome some people with hearing worse than hers scores better on speech perception? My audiologist who sold me those HAs says I have the best speech perception for my level of hearing loss he's ever seen and thinks with practice I could get it to a decent %. I know that with CI you still need lots of practice.

This is news to me. The speech banana covers 125Hz to 8000Hz and some graphs show it extending even below and above that. Also theres lots of low frequency environmental sounds, may I ask if her ability to hear environmental sounds changed? When/if do you plan to go bilateral for Kat?

I am surprised it was so easy for you to get approval from insurance, especially with the amount of residual hearing she has. Ive read lots of stories of how profoundly deaf people struggle for months or years to get approval and some still never get approval and need to pay out of pocket for CI or stick with HAs. Ive always read that severe-profound loss was required and one of them had a graph showing minimum of 75db at 250Hz, 85db at 500Hz, 95db at 1000Hz and up. Have requirements recently become much more lax? Thanks for your answers, so much I can learn!

Very few people have hearing at 0 db. 0 decibles is defined as what a normal hearing adult could detect at each frequency, 50% of the time. To think that you can get to that why turning you hearing aids all the way up doesn't seem logical to me.

Also, we wanted speech, not just enviromental sounds, so we didn't care about keeping her residual hearing. It was useless without amplification anyway.

As for her loss, I believe severe starts at 70 across all frequencies, so she was very very nearly there.

Bilateral, we haven't decided about. Insurance may not cover it, and she does get benefit from her aid, so we have time to spare.

deafdude1 · 03-19-2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

Which person? But I read about a few who have/had less than 70db still get a CI. I also remember you mentioning that you also know of a few with only a moderate low frequency loss but profound high frequency loss who got CI

The person you mentioned in your post.

Miss Kat? She had only 60db loss at 250Hz but her parents made the choice to implant her with CI. It did help improve her speech perception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

The distortion I heard sounded like a radio turned up as high as it can go volume wise. According to my CI audi and former hearing aid audi, the distortion occured because I do not have alot of remaining cillia and I did not have any residual hearing at 1000 Hz and above.

I will have to read and learn more about this. If the distortion was comming from your ears, what does it have to do with HAs? If it's comming from HAs, then some HAs distort more than others with their gain/volume cranked up. If a person hears much less distortion with less gain from their HAs, shouldnt a different HA give more gain with less distortion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

All of these individuals either had ossification of the cochlea or rapidly progressive hearing loss. Hence, the reason they were CI candidates.

There is one with only 55db HL at 250Hz but it slopes down into nothing in the high frequencies. Ill have to ask her about ossification and if her HL is still progressing. She started losing her hearing at 14. At first she decided against a CI but is now interested in trying a CI in her worse ear(the one with 55db sloping loss) her surgeon is going to use a shortened array and insert it very carefully to try to preserve her low frequency hearing as much as possible. She may use a hybrid CI with a HA for low frequencies and a CI in the same ear for high frequencies. She really wants to regain her high frequency hearing. I am still surprised but it's her choice and ive wished her luck

[quote=LadySekhmet;1283542]
I got the CI because my hearing was progressively getting worse, and I knew it would get to the point where NO HA will help. I do not get any type of clarity that I want/need, and the ability to hear in the higher frequencies that would be almost impossible for me to hear without the CI. You have better "hearing" than I do in the lows. Each person is very different from one another. For you, HA is a success story, so I'm impressed. [QUOTE]

That makes sense. You probably had a good idea of what you were missing as your hearing worsened. I don't have a good idea of what im missing unless I try one of my old HAs or if I turn the volume down. What I hear currently sounds normal to me, I am the one who's surprised that others hear so much better, it's like they have super hearing

I have no concept of what clarity is, I just know I can't hear mechanical voices. Human voices(especially male) I can hear some words without lip reading. I get by great reading lips, don't care for phones, communicate by email and IM and have CC on all TV so I consider environmental sounds more important. HAs are a success so far in the lows but they leave alot to be desired in the highs. May I ask what your aided audiogram was for HA? Did you experience distortion, recruitment, etc if the audiologist attempted to max out the gains? This is one thing I don't understand as I never experienced any of that.

Quote:

For me, having Bilateral CI's is a success story. It works perfectly fine, and I can hear 10db - 20db across the board (with exception of 25db, possibly since I wasn't tested yet, in the very high frequencies above 2500hz). I still have to go for MAP sessions and stuff, so there's still a lot of room for improvement. To be honest, there's more ways to adjust a CI than there is for a digital Hearing aids. Not all audiologists have the expertise like yours, so you are very lucky. :-)

Your results is the best ive ever seen with CIs, in fact too good

hope your brain gets used to all the extra sounds so you can use the 10db map more often, that's considered normal hearing. You also hear from 40Hz to 15KHz, an exceptional range for CI. I read that a realistic range is 250Hz to 8KHz. Are you even able to tolerate such high frequencies? Must be pretty interesting the first time you heard 8KHz to 15KHz

Quote:

Also, if your audiologist is willing, and still can't figure out why you're not getting the gains that you want, you can always request a representative to come over and test it out on you. A lot of CI audiologists do allow representatives to come over to work out the kinks and issues for CI users, and more often the CI user is more than satisfied with the results. Reps pretty much is more of an expert, so it's nice to have them come over and help out. Maybe there's a small thing that your audiologist overlooked, or didn't think about how to program and stuff.

The audie who sold me those HAs lives in Toronto, he's also my 2nd cousin and I got the new HAs when me and my family visit extended family in Toronto. I didn't have the knowlege about HAs as I do today otherwise I would have asked more questions and got the issues resolved. He basically just told me not to worry, wear those HAs and train your brain to get used to the new sounds which ive done. Several months later, I find a few things that need improving. I will email my audie again as I didn't recieve a second reply with my additional questions. As for a representative, could I get one that works at Phonak to figure out why their HA is giving me half the gain it should at higher frequencies?

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Very few people have hearing at 0 db. 0 decibles is defined as what a normal hearing adult could detect at each frequency, 50% of the time. To think that you can get to that why turning you hearing aids all the way up doesn't seem logical to me.

Ive always been told that 0db was perfect hearing and that normal hearing is actually up to 25db hearing loss. A person that hears 25db across the board aided or better yet unaided should have no problem understanding speech. The average adult person with normal hearing probably hears around 10db from 250Hz to 4000Hz and slightly less at 8000Hz, which gets worse the older the person is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Also, we wanted speech, not just enviromental sounds, so we didn't care about keeping her residual hearing. It was useless without amplification anyway.

Did she keep her residual hearing anyway and how much of it? When/if I ever decide to get a CI, keeping my residual hearing is very important. It may be nearly useless without a HA but I hear plenty of enviromental sounds and some speech with HAs. What if the CI doesn't work right or isn't as good as I was getting with HAs? No person has a 100% chance of success, not even a "perfect" candidate. By keeping the residual hearing, I have a plan B to go back to HAs. I also can alternate between HAs and CI because I read that a CI usually doesn't do a great job below 250Hz and a HA lets me hear low frequency environmental sounds and bass music. Alot of the people I know also consider retaining residual hearing to be important and for reasons similar to mine. Each person's different, but I can speak for myself and many others I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

As for her loss, I believe severe starts at 70 across all frequencies, so she was very very nearly there.

Was it a progressive loss? Someone else said they can make exceptions below 70db if the loss is rapidly progressing anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Bilateral, we haven't decided about. Insurance may not cover it, and she does get benefit from her aid, so we have time to spare.

Are you waiting for better CI technology for her other ear or even a cure? Ive read about totally implantable CI, 128 electrodes, fiber optic/laser CI electrodes and several other exciting technological prospects that get ME excited about wanting CI. Of course the prospect of a cure is a wildcard. A cure is a question of when, not if. Could be 10 years, could be 25 years no one knows. I have time to spare as well. If I was born the same time Kat was, it's possible my parents would have made the choice for me to get a CI for the same reasons you got one for Kat. CI technology was very crude, primative and expermental when I was a young child. It was only done on those who were 100% stone deaf. I made do with HAs quite nicely and got lots of speech training as a kid. My speech pronunciation and lip reading is now excellent and I can hear some speech too. My hearing was much worse than kat's too. Our generation will be able to get the choice of CI as an adult and no harm was done, at least not to me.

Thanks again for all your replies and answers. Is anyone else here getting poor aided results above 500Hz? I feel im the only one

LadySekhmet · 03-19-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdude1

That makes sense. You probably had a good idea of what you were missing as your hearing worsened. I don't have a good idea of what im missing unless I try one of my old HAs or if I turn the volume down. What I hear currently sounds normal to me, I am the one who's surprised that others hear so much better, it's like they have super hearing

I have no concept of what clarity is, I just know I can't hear mechanical voices. Human voices(especially male) I can hear some words without lip reading. HAs are a success so far in the lows but they leave alot to be desired in the highs. May I ask what your aided audiogram was for HA? Did you experience distortion, recruitment, etc if the audiologist attempted to max out the gains? This is one thing I don't understand as I never experienced any of that.

Your results is the best ive ever seen with CIs, in fact too good

hope your brain gets used to all the extra sounds so you can use the 10db map more often, that's considered normal hearing. You also hear from 40Hz to 15KHz, an exceptional range for CI. I read that a realistic range is 250Hz to 8KHz. Are you even able to tolerate such high frequencies? Must be pretty interesting the first time you heard 8KHz to 15KHz

I'll have to find my audiogram aided. I believe it starts at the 40db at 250hz, then slopes downwards a little, and ends up at the 60db in the highs. I have to double check.

Distortion - basically I was missing the higher frequencies that are in speech and environmental sounds, so everything sounded like they were in the lows. If there was strictly high frequencies, such as crickets, birds, S, Z CH sounds, I was not able to hear it at ALL. For example...if someone said to me "school", I would only get the "hool" sound, not the S and CH. The environmental sounds wasn't that much different than wearing my CI, because the majority of them falls in the lower range, however, the sounds are more crisp more clear. Like - I don't have to think twice or thrice of what the sound of a car with bad transmission sounds like, same thing goes for sirens. I used to "hear" the sounds, then have to really think what the sounds are because they're not exactly clear. Now, with the CI, I hear the sound, and I automatically know what it is because I have the clarity that I need. You probably will never experience clarity until you have CI or better HA technology.

I agree that HA has issues with the highs. Again, if you don't have enough high frequency residual hearing, you won't get the same level as you would with the lows. If someone has a straight across the board loss, then they will be able to hear in the high frequencies. I'm NR in the highs, how can I expect HA will bring over 120db loss to the 20db line??? Impossible. CI arrays bypasses the "hair" that is needed to detect the highs, instead, it touches right at the nerve cell. So, think of it this way. The hairs are gone, but the root is still there and still functioning. The array is touching the root, therefore, I'm able to hear in the highs. The highs are the first to go when you get older...it's not the nerves root that is gone, it's the hair that is gone.

Maybe I will increase the MAP over time to reach the 10db, but it's not all that great because you can hear EVERYTHING...I don't think it's important that I can hear my cat poop in the litterbox. I don't think it's that important to hear the A.C. on and hear every sound associated with it. I'm sensitive to high frequencies. I don't want to hear the buzzing of the florescent lightbulb. I don't want to hear the electricity crackling from time to time through an outlet plug (that's was a very interesting experience, but I don't want to hear that on top of everything else). If I hear the highs permanently, I'll go insane. It causes migraines and tinnitus (yes, even some CI users still experience tinnitus...some better than it was, some completely cure, others worse).

If you want to hear all that, be my guest. :-)

Hear Again · 03-19-2009, 01:39 PM

Miss Kat? She had only 60db loss at 250Hz but her parents made the choice to implant her with CI. It did help improve her speech perception.

Just because she "only" had a 60 dB loss at 250 Hz doesn't mean she could hear well. Remember, she also had severe to profound loss in the mid and high frequencies. She also lost her hearing over time. Faire_jour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hear Again · 03-19-2009, 01:42 PM

I will have to read and learn more about this. If the distortion was comming from your ears, what does it have to do with HAs? If it's comming from HAs, then some HAs distort more than others with their gain/volume cranked up. If a person hears much less distortion with less gain from their HAs, shouldnt a different HA give more gain with less distortion?

The distortion was coming from my ears and my hearing aids. Whether I wore hearing aids or not, speech sounded distorted.

As for your second question, I couldn't use a different hearing aid because the Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTE was the strongest hearing aid avaiable on the market when I was evaluated for my first CI.

Hear Again · 03-19-2009, 01:45 PM

There is one with only 55db HL at 250Hz but it slopes down into nothing in the high frequencies. Ill have to ask her about ossification and if her HL is still progressing. She started losing her hearing at 14. At first she decided against a CI but is now interested in trying a CI in her worse ear(the one with 55db sloping loss) her surgeon is going to use a shortened array and insert it very carefully to try to preserve her low frequency hearing as much as possible. She may use a hybrid CI with a HA for low frequencies and a CI in the same ear for high frequencies. She really wants to regain her high frequency hearing. I am still surprised but it's her choice and ive wished her luck

Why are you surprised that this person wants to have a Hybrid CI? Given her hearing loss, it seems to me like she would be a perfect candidate.

faire_jour · 03-19-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

Miss Kat? She had only 60db loss at 250Hz but her parents made the choice to implant her with CI. It did help improve her speech perception.

Just because she "only" had a 60 dB loss at 250 Hz doesn't mean she could hear well. Remember, she also had severe to profound loss in the mid and high frequencies. She also lost her hearing over time. Faire_jour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes. She was born hearing but had a moderate loss by 18 months. She lost more and more hearing until, at 5, she was severe to profound. She had 60 at 250 but 105 at 2000.

03-18-2009, 12:23 PM	#53 (permalink)
LadySekhmet Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Las Vegas! Posts: 880	Also - not all of us have a nice gain in HA's like yours, DeafDude1. I've wore HA's my whole life, and I was able to understand speech pretty well, but I cannot look away and be able to pick it up easily as I could with CI. I got the CI because my hearing was progressively getting worse, and I knew it would get to the point where NO HA will help. I do not get any type of clarity that I want/need, and the ability to hear in the higher frequencies that would be almost impossible for me to hear without the CI. You have better "hearing" than I do in the lows. Each person is very different from one another. For you, HA is a success story, so I'm impressed. For me, having Bilateral CI's is a success story. It works perfectly fine, and I can hear 10db - 20db across the board (with exception of 25db, possibly since I wasn't tested yet, in the very high frequencies above 2500hz). I still have to go for MAP sessions and stuff, so there's still a lot of room for improvement. To be honest, there's more ways to adjust a CI than there is for a digital Hearing aids. Not all audiologists have the expertise like yours, so you are very lucky. :-) Also, if your audiologist is willing, and still can't figure out why you're not getting the gains that you want, you can always request a representative to come over and test it out on you. A lot of CI audiologists do allow representatives to come over to work out the kinks and issues for CI users, and more often the CI user is more than satisfied with the results. Reps pretty much is more of an expert, so it's nice to have them come over and help out. Maybe there's a small thing that your audiologist overlooked, or didn't think about how to program and stuff. __________________ Missing my beloved cat, *Blackjack*, who died from battling with FIP. April 2008 - Feb. 5th, 2009. LEFT: Implanted: 1/10/08 Activated: 2/1/08 Freedom RIGHT: Implanted: 5/15/08 Activated: 6/13/08 Freedom http://cyborgqueen.blogspot.com

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03-16-2009, 06:41 AM	#31 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	I checked the specs for CIC and they do give 30db gain, however the max SPL is only around 107db and that's the problem. Open fit would be a few db better in gain and SPL. They are for mild to moderate loss mostly due to the SPL ceiling/limit. The SPL needs to exceed a person's HL or they will be NR. If I were to wear a CIC or open fit, I probably won't hear a thing above 500Hz because the SPL is less than my HL. The gain of 30db isn't enough for me anyway, it may be enough for you and a minority of people. If CIs and open fit hearing aids wouldn't work for you, they obviously wouldn't work for me either. Besides, why should I wear a CIC or open fit hearing aid when I could receive considerably more amplification from a BTE?

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03-16-2009, 06:48 AM	#32 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	HAs are risk free and you can get a free trial. I do benefit from them, now I want to optimize the gains, my audie said he programmed them at 90% but im only getting 60%, I see others getting more gain than 40db! MEIs don't cause one to lose their residual hearing, so it's no different than a hearing aid. Besides, if insurance pays the cost for an MEI, that's one benefit over hearing aids which insurance doesn't cover. As for your last sentence in your post, this depends upon a person's hearing loss. You can't judge what one person's aided score is based on your own results because everyone hears differently.

03-16-2009, 06:50 AM	#33 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	What type of hearing aids were yours? I can look up the specs including the max gain. Ive mentioned the specs of my HAs and im not getting the max gain according to the specs, especially in the mid frequencies. In a week, im going to a local audiologist(not the same one who dispensed my HAs) and she will test my ears as well as my HAs to see if they are giving the gain the Phonak company claims they are. I was wearing Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs at the time.

03-16-2009, 06:53 AM	#34 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	That's your choice if you want to hear aided at 60db. Hearing at 60 dB aided wasn't good enough for me -- especially since I had NR at 1000 Hz and above. That's why I was implanted. My original comment was that I'd rather hear at 60 dB aided than 90 dB unaided.

03-16-2009, 06:58 AM	#35 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	deafdude, The CI team who evaluated Charlotte, Lady, myself and others are experts and know what they're doing when it comes to determining candidacy. I don't mean any disrespect, but please leave it up to the individual and CI team to determine whether an implant is the correct choice. We don't need to be questioned about how much gain we had on our hearing aids or what our aided scores were. Our audis and CI surgeons saw this information and concluded that we all fit the criteria for being a CI candidate.

03-16-2009, 05:25 PM	#36 (permalink)
faire_jour Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,202	There is no "better or worse" residual hearing once the CI is in. A person with 120 db+ loss has the ability to get to where Miss Kat is, (hypothetically of course) it has nothing to do with the fact that she had residual hearing before CI. Audiologist do NOT aim to get a CI user down to 0 db, that is foolish. They only have the ability to have a dynamic window so big, so if they program to hear every single soft sound, the "louds" would be missed. Plus, why do you need to hear things that soft? Our goal was for Miss Kat to get speech sounds and 25 db is plenty for that. As for her hearing aids, they were as loud as she could get with still reasonable clarity. Cranking them up to an uncomfortable, distorted level would be ridiculous and counter productive. What good is 25 db if she can't understand or identify any sounds because of distortion? Miss Kat had reasonable closed set scores with very different words. On the ESP (early speech perception) test she scored as high as 90%, but those were two syllable, very familiar, very different words. (hot dog vs airplane vs toothbrush). But if it was an open set, she would have scored 0 (unless you happened to say baby). As for the one frequency not being "severe", we had no problem with it. They said it was a useless frequency for speech and she obviously wasn't benefiting enough from her aids. We had no problem with insurace either. She is on Medicaid so we paid exact;y $0 for her CI.

03-18-2009, 08:29 AM	#39 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Ive always read that severe-profound loss was required and one of them had a graph showing minimum of 75db at 250Hz, 85db at 500Hz, 95db at 1000Hz and up. Severe hearing loss starts at 70 dB, so this person DID have severe-profound hearing loss.

03-18-2009, 08:35 AM	#40 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Unaided/aided audiogram 3000Hz-115db/NR 4000Hz-120db/NR How come you're able to hear unaided at 3 and 4K, but you receive NR aided?

03-18-2009, 08:40 AM	#41 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Originally Posted by Hear Again I was wearing Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs at the time. Originally Posted by deafdude1 Ill look up the specs for those, but off the top of my head, aren't those almost as good as Phonak Naida V UP? The Naidas weren't available back in 2004 when I was evaluated for my first CI.

03-18-2009, 08:48 AM	#42 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	You also said that when the gain was increased, you experienced distortion and it didn't help improve your speech perception? Did it still improve your ability to hear more environmental sounds? If you say 60db wasn't good enough, what stopped you from maxing out the gains? Regardless not hearing above 750Hz and with how little residual hearing you had, a CI was fine for you. In my case I feel I can and should be getting better than 80db at 2000Hz! I don't care if theres a bit of distortion! In my case, icreasing the gain on my hearing aids did not result in an increased ability to hear environmental sounds. The distortion I heard made environmental sounds very difficult to hear since I couldn't recognize what I was hearing. Once the gain was turned down, I experienced more clarity. I already indicated that my audi maxed out the gain on my analog and digital aids despite the fact that this went against her recommendations. See this post for details: Poor aided results above 500Hz

03-18-2009, 08:54 AM	#43 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	In my case I feel I can and should be getting better than 80db at 2000Hz! I don't care if theres a bit of distortion! The difference between you and I though is that I wanted to understand speech. You, on the other hand, are satisfied with being able to hear environmental sounds.

03-18-2009, 08:58 AM	#44 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	The questions are for my knowlege. I am not qualified to make decisions for others(just state my opinion and let them decide) and in fact this thread isn't even about CI, just my own hearing results. I'm afraid that you're the one who turned this into a debate about who should receive CIs and who shouldn't given how many questions you've asked several of us about how much speech discrimination we had pre-CI and how much gain, etc. we had on our hearing aids. You even went so far as to question myself, cdmeggars and faire_jour about our choices for having a CI. Once you were convinced of the fact that I had very little residual hearing before I received my first CI, you seemed comfortable with my candidacy for an implant. So yes, you DID make this a thread about CIs and who should and shouldn't be implanted.

03-18-2009, 09:17 AM	#45 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	My Q: Has transposition been programmed on my hearing aids, if yes what frequencies become transpositioned? So far I have not been able to notice any transposition, maybe it should be reprogrammed? His A: It has been programmed. if you do not notice it, then it is working correctly. This isn't what my former CI audi told me. She said that if transposition aids are programmed appropriately, you should be able to hear a very different sound compared to regular hearing aids. What exactly that sound is, I can't say since I've never worn them. However, she did say that the sound of transposition aids is considerably different than regular hearing aids. This is why she said many people have alot of difficulty adjusting to transposition hearing aids. My CI audi is the senior audiologist at my CI center. She wasn't the one who evaluated me for my CIs, but I'll ask her to describe how much different transposition aids sound compared to regular hearing aids.

03-18-2009, 09:41 AM	#46 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	deafdude, I just wanted to let you know that I heard from my CI audi this morning. She will be sending me copies of my latest audiogram as well as my audiogram prior to having 6 electrodes on each CI turned off.

03-18-2009, 10:26 AM	#48 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Which person? But I read about a few who have/had less than 70db still get a CI. I also remember you mentioning that you also know of a few with only a moderate low frequency loss but profound high frequency loss who got CI The person you mentioned in your post.

03-18-2009, 10:28 AM	#49 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Can you describe what the distortion sounded like and why was it occuring for you? I notice very little, if any distortion and the distortion is comming from the speakers if I max out the speaker's volume. I can also feel the speakers vibrating as further proof of distortion. The distortion I heard sounded like a radio turned up as high as it can go volume wise. According to my CI audi and former hearing aid audi, the distortion occured because I do not have alot of remaining cillia and I did not have any residual hearing at 1000 Hz and above.

03-18-2009, 10:30 AM	#50 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Thanks so much for your time! Me and others learn so much from your posts and replies! You're welcome!

03-18-2009, 10:33 AM	#51 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	deafdude, Here's the e-mail I received from my CI audi re: transposition aids. My e-mail is first, followed by her response. "I have another question. How does the sound quality of transposition aids differ from standard hearing aids? Is the sound quality significantly different? When I asked Farah if I could try transposition aids during my first CI evaluation, she told me I would most likely have alot of difficulty adjusting to them given the fact that I've worn analog BTE hearing aids since 1985." "Yes-transposition aids sound very different. You are better off with the implants." My CI audi's statement about me being better off with CIs was also based on my aided/unaided pre-CI audiogram as well as my speech discrimination of 8% in my left ear with a Comtek FM system using DAI and Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTE hearing aid and 22% speech discrimination in my right ear (also with Comtek FM system and Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTE).

03-18-2009, 10:39 AM	#52 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	I also remember you mentioning that you also know of a few with only a moderate low frequency loss but profound high frequency loss who got CI. All of these individuals either had ossification of the cochlea or rapidly progressive hearing loss. Hence, the reason they were CI candidates.

03-19-2009, 01:39 PM	#57 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	Miss Kat? She had only 60db loss at 250Hz but her parents made the choice to implant her with CI. It did help improve her speech perception. Just because she "only" had a 60 dB loss at 250 Hz doesn't mean she could hear well. Remember, she also had severe to profound loss in the mid and high frequencies. She also lost her hearing over time. Faire_jour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

03-19-2009, 01:42 PM	#58 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	I will have to read and learn more about this. If the distortion was comming from your ears, what does it have to do with HAs? If it's comming from HAs, then some HAs distort more than others with their gain/volume cranked up. If a person hears much less distortion with less gain from their HAs, shouldnt a different HA give more gain with less distortion? The distortion was coming from my ears and my hearing aids. Whether I wore hearing aids or not, speech sounded distorted. As for your second question, I couldn't use a different hearing aid because the Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTE was the strongest hearing aid avaiable on the market when I was evaluated for my first CI.

03-19-2009, 01:45 PM	#59 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	There is one with only 55db HL at 250Hz but it slopes down into nothing in the high frequencies. Ill have to ask her about ossification and if her HL is still progressing. She started losing her hearing at 14. At first she decided against a CI but is now interested in trying a CI in her worse ear(the one with 55db sloping loss) her surgeon is going to use a shortened array and insert it very carefully to try to preserve her low frequency hearing as much as possible. She may use a hybrid CI with a HA for low frequencies and a CI in the same ear for high frequencies. She really wants to regain her high frequency hearing. I am still surprised but it's her choice and ive wished her luck Why are you surprised that this person wants to have a Hybrid CI? Given her hearing loss, it seems to me like she would be a perfect candidate.