Risk of Bacterial Meningitis and Death in Children with Cochlear Implants - Page 4

Cloggy · 10-11-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Nope, that's not what you said. Symptoms is the key word. And, I said "should be", you said "is".

Picky picky picky.....

What's up with you? ..... oh, is that the problem... it happens....

Audiofuzzy · 10-11-2007, 02:26 AM

wiggly, picky, = jills's lack of arguments, weak arguments...

Fuzzy

InTheGenes · 10-11-2007, 07:16 AM

You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children.

As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision.

As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.

jillio · 10-11-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

wiggly, picky, = jills's lack of arguments, weak arguments...

Fuzzy

Grow up, for God's sake. You are making a complete fool of yourself. I'm starting to feel embarrassment for you.

jillio · 10-11-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Picky picky picky.....

What's up with you? ..... oh, is that the problem... it happens....

Hey, you're the one that keeps talking about making sure the information is correct. Then make it correct, cloggy.

Cloggy · 10-11-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Hey, you're the one that keeps talking about making sure the information is correct. Then make it correct, cloggy.

jillio · 10-11-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

I got a much better, idea, cloggy.

Kiss this!

highlands · 10-11-2007, 11:29 AM

*off topic*
lol at Jillio and Cloggy

Cloggy · 10-11-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I got a much better, idea, cloggy.

Kiss this!

x

Angel · 10-11-2007, 03:07 PM

..Sorry I couldn't help myself....

Audiofuzzy · 10-11-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

I got a much better, idea, cloggy. Kiss this!

yep. somebody's loosing it..

Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy · 10-11-2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

I would add that some parents made choices which they themselves started to doubt. "did I do the right thing? should I have gotten the implant? shouldn't I have gotten the implant"? etc.
that causes this particular person to be especially aggressive and intolerant against those who happen to have different view. They need to reassure themselves they did right.
And especially when faced with neutral facts which prove undisputable benefits of having CI, and hearing and speaking ability.

I wholeheartedly agree any good, caring parent wants the best for their child. And if the child thrives, then the choice was right.
regardless of what it was.

As for meningitis - there is no medical procedure that wouldn't carry some risks with it. Sometimes it's neccessary to weigh risk aganist benefits. Nobody wants their child to die.
We would never know if the child who died for mening. after surgery wouldn't catch it and die from it anyway sometime later in their life even without having CI surgery, since having "bad ears" predispose to this infection anyway.
Completely healthy people die from meningitis, too.

Fuzzy

jillio · 10-11-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

yep. somebody's loosing it..

Fuzzy

Was I talking to you, fuzzy? I think not!

shel90 · 10-11-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neecy

Actually - to the medical community sometimes the symptoms are so close-linked they make mistakes. I'm a perfect example - when I had bacterial meningitis when I was a child, my family doctor was out of town. The guy I had to see told my Mom that I had the flu and to take me back home. Mom managed to track down our family doctor and called him because my fever kept going up and I started getting delirious. That was an extra 12 hours that I could have been treated/on antibiotics/whatever that was missed. I lapsed into a coma (that lasted 3 weeks) while in the ambulance taking me to the hospital 100 miles away.

So I just wanted to point out - even doctors can mistake the symptoms of meningitis during its onset.

Wow! I am sorry that happened to you!!!

shel90 · 10-11-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheGenes

You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children.

As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision.

As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.

I agree with u and I try to see it from the other side but I get fired up when I read about children being deprived of language.

jag · 10-11-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I agree with u and I try to see it from the other side but I get fired up when I read about children being deprived of language.

Actually Shel no one here has stated that they think speech is the only option, no one here believes in depriving a child of communication. Those of us who advocate the implants encourage them because they can bridge the gap between those who hear and those who don't. It is much easier to undertand and learn to speak if you can hear yourself.

It would be nice if some would quit saying that Cloggy is depriving his daughter of language because they no longer rely on sign as much as they once did. I mention him because of the more recent arguments.

Parents of hearing children who use sign with thier babies do so to bridge the gap, to give them the chance to let their needs be known before they have to ablitiy to form the words. So when he says that Lotte is choosing to speak even without her CI on that is a natural progression because just as the normally hearing baby will drop the signs as she becomes able to form them (speak) so to will a child who hears with a CI. There is nothing wrong with this.

When he says Lotte is delayed, I take that to mean that she is lagging behind the average. And remember the average is just that, some will be further ahead, some further behind. I can't remember how much of a delay he said she tests at but relaly if one had no access to sound for the first year or two of life it wouldn't be surprising of tests show there is a delay, just because the child needs to start from the beginning.

As for kids who's parents make the wrong choice? It's going to happen. Hopefully in most cases the change in direction is caught early so not to much communction problems are caused. Life isn't perfect so no one will ever make the right choice 100% of the time.

jillio · 10-11-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jag

Actually Shel no one here has stated that they think speech is the only option, no one here believes in depriving a child of communication. Those of us who advocate the implants encourage them because they can bridge the gap between those who hear and those who don't. It is much easier to undertand and learn to speak if you can hear yourself.

It would be nice if some would quit saying that Cloggy is depriving his daughter of language because they no longer rely on sign as much as they once did. I mention him because of the more recent arguments.

Parents of hearing children who use sign with thier babies do so to bridge the gap, to give them the chance to let their needs be known before they have to ablitiy to form the words. So when he says that Lotte is choosing to speak even without her CI on that is a natural progression because just as the normally hearing baby will drop the signs as she becomes able to form them (speak) so to will a child who hears with a CI. There is nothing wrong with this.

When he says Lotte is delayed, I take that to mean that she is lagging behind the average. And remember the average is just that, some will be further ahead, some further behind. I can't remember how much of a delay he said she tests at but relaly if one had no access to sound for the first year or two of life it wouldn't be surprising of tests show there is a delay, just because the child needs to start from the beginning.

As for kids who's parents make the wrong choice? It's going to happen. Hopefully in most cases the change in direction is caught early so not to much communction problems are caused. Life isn't perfect so no one will ever make the right choice 100% of the time.

Not having access to sound does not, in and of itself, cause langauge delays.

Cloggy · 10-12-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not having access to sound does not, in and of itself, cause langauge delays.

Because.........

Let me guess.... there is signlanguage.!! And NOT using sign language THAT causes delays.!! ... just a guess...

R2D2 · 10-12-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheGenes

You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children.

As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision.

As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.

Well said! I love it when someone comes along and posts a thoughtful contribution like this. And you are absolutely correct - there is a wide range of opinions on this subject and at the end of the day, the parent (after hopefully doing extensive research and reading) has to make the choice that feels right for them. You can't please everyone. Your child may not have the same opinions as some adults here on AD when they are adults. Also opinions evolve and change over time. All of us here are always free to change our minds at any time, but a decision is for life.

I do wish there was less bickering because I do feel we can learn from each other.

Liebling:-))) · 10-12-2007, 12:34 AM

Cloggy & Jillio at # 96, 97 and 99

jag · 10-12-2007, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not having access to sound does not, in and of itself, cause langauge delays.

Since I said nothing about not having access to sound being the cause 'in and of itself' of language delays you're comment isn't correct. EDIT: let me ...add when replying to the post you're replying to.

rockdrummer · 10-12-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Didn't realise I was doing that..

No not you Cloggy. It's just a saying. What I mean is don't get me started on how doctors F#%K up all the time. The doctor that treated him for menengitis said that the chances of him contracting it again were about the same as lightning striking twice in the exact same spot. He even said this after reviewing the results of a catscan where he completly missed the CSF leak and malformed choclea. In fact my son was at an extremely high risk of contracting it again from a simple ear infection. Another doctor couldn't believe that the first doctor missed it. Anyway... that's what I mean when I say "don't get me started".. Nothing personal.

rockdrummer · 10-12-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio
A flu is not meningitis. A flu is caused by virus, bacterial meningits is caused by a bacteria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Oh, Jillio, you are soo right...

Do the parents know that?

Actually menengitis can be bacterial (the most dangerous) or viral.

Viral Meningitis Facts
Bacterial Meningitis Facts

rockdrummer · 10-12-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheGenes

You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all.

I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally.

For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their

10-11-2007, 02:26 AM	#92 (permalink)
Audiofuzzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,968	wiggly, picky, = jills's lack of arguments, weak arguments... Fuzzy __________________ Truth breeds hatred. ~Bias of Priene, Maxims A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble. Mohandas Gandhi

10-11-2007, 11:29 AM	#98 (permalink)
highlands In Love & Happy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in an inland city Posts: 4,138	off topic lol at Jillio and Cloggy __________________

10-12-2007, 12:34 AM	#110 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 25,671	Cloggy & Jillio at # 96, 97 and 99 __________________ sniffing you

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10-11-2007, 07:16 AM	#93 (permalink)
InTheGenes Intolerant of Intolerance Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northern VA (near DC) Posts: 230	You guys are going in circles with your arguments, and many of you are resorting to petty personal attacks, which really don't serve you or your arguments well at all. I think we all might be able to agree that ALL parents (or, at least all parents here) want what is best for their children. The problem we're running into with these discussions about cochlear implants is that for each family, the definition of "best" is different, sometimes vastly different. No one wants to think that the choices they make for their children are the WRONG choices, and so when we have such a controversial topic such as this, where each "side" is convinced that the decisions they've made are THE right decisions... it's going to be impossible NOT to take these differences of opinion personally. For the sake of harmony/unity here on these boards, you guys are going to have to come to SOME kind of acceptance that your adversaries on the other side of this argument are NOT going to change their minds, and are doing what they think is best for their children. As far as this particular argument about bacterial meningitis goes... some of you see the 0.017% risk as an acceptable risk. Some of you see ONE death as one death too many. I don't think either side is going to convince the other on this. Personally, I see it as similar to plane crashes... we know that there are hundreds or thousands of flights taking place each day. And if there are three crashes in the same week, it's going to receive a lot of media coverage, and a lot of people are going to shy away from air travel as a result. Other people will continue to see the risk as a small one, and continue to travel. Again, it's a personal decision. As an outsider looking in, I can tell you that it is evident that ALL of you care for your children, and are only concerned with doing what you think is in their best interest. (Or, for those of you adults who've chosen to be implanted yourselves, you've chosen to do what you think is in YOUR best interest.) I think this is going to have to be one of those arguments where there isn't a RIGHT or WRONG final answer... but rather, a right answer for YOU or for your children. And personally, I think we'd do better to just accept whatever those decisions are, and not attempt to demonize those decisions on the other "side" of the argument.

10-11-2007, 03:07 PM	#100 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 18,899	..Sorry I couldn't help myself....