rockdrummer

I have been a member here for a month or so now and have learned very much from this and other sites relating to deaf issues. One thing that I have learned is that some in the deaf community feel that if a parent chooses to have a CI for their child, it's because they don't accept their child for who they are. While I can't speak for everyone, I know that for me there is nothing further from the truth. So I would ask the parents of deaf children to please respond with the reason you chose a CI for your child.

Thank you

Deafness

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Cloggy

First, because HA's didn't help. After that because I want her to experience the hearing world. Her direct family can hear, her family can hear, our friends can hear, most of the outside world can hear.

Sure, she would be a wonderful person growing up deaf in a hearing world. Now, she will be a wonderful person growing up hearing in a hearing world.

Perhaps, to summarize: "extended opportunities".

Cheri

Cloggy,

You said that you wanted your daughter to experience the hearing world, It sounds like the issue of black/white race relations. I hate the word "racism", every now and then I've heard that for so long that black people felt that way from the white people, while not all white people are racism. You cannot change a white person to become an African American, You cannot change an African person to a white person to be part of a community or experience their world. It's all about accepting who they are as a person!

That is another example of being involving with the hearing world, Not every person who is hearing going to look down onto the deaf people, Same for the deaf people not going to look down onto the hearing people, What if a hearing person wants to become deaf? dued to too much annoying sounds, So can a hearing person can turn deaf? Do you have any idea how dumb that can be? Why can't we all just be ourselves? the person you were born with.

You think that CI is going to change your daughter to become a hearing person, But, you are wrong, Your daughter is always going to be deaf because she was born deaf, CI is only an additive, to help her with hearing stored, an electronic device. The idea of having a CI to have your daughter to be part of a hearing world doesn't sounds right, while deaf people can still be part of the hearing world without a CI. You don't seem to have a lot of knowledge of what a deaf person can do, and what they cannot do, because you are not deaf? But that doesn't mean you can't learn, My family learned about my deafness very slowly through the years, I don't see them wishing me to become a hearing person like them, They accept me for who I am a person that became deaf. I'm so glad that they did, because I want someone to accept me for who I am as a person, not a person that someone wants me to be. That's what my explaintion is all about in this post, about accepting that's the way the real world should be, accepting people for who they are as a person.

I just thought of throwing in my 2 cents.

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neecy

I think that people should back of Cloggy - he has done what he has felt was in the best interests of his daugher. SHE is happy. She enjoys being able to hear (albit aided by a CI), enjoys music, enjoys talking. Nothing you say will change the fact that she now has a CI. He's also said that she is learning sign language as well. Why cant people just back off and let the parent do what they deem is best for their child, as long as the child is happy and healthy it really is nobody's business but the parent's. He researched before he made the decision and does not regret it - neither, apparently does his daughter. Accept the fact that people who have CI's can be happy, can interact with the deaf world, as WELL as the hearing world (they have the best of BOTH that way!).

Nobody denies the fact (not even Cloggy) that *biologically* his daughter is deaf. However she is hearing when CI-assisted. That is fact too (heck,so am I!)

Yes deaf people can be a part of the hearing world without a CI- but what is it with the fact that Cloggy's daughter is HAPPY with her CI, HAPPY with interacting with both the hearing and the deaf world that seems to be so threatening to all the anti-CI activists?

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R2D2

I'm in favour of children who get no benefit from HAs getting CIs but I think that Cheri has a point. Such children will always be deaf and their hearing will still be powered by batteries. It is important to recognise this and not be carried away with an idea that they are now "normal".

The way I see it is that CIs increase the possibility of deaf children who derive no or little benefit from hearing aids getting access to the benefits of the hearing world such as the school, workplace, being involved with their families and a wider range of friends to choose from. But it doesn't change the way they were born and they will always still feel different in the hearing world.

R2D2

Audiofuzzy

hearing parents who never had any contact with deaf world can not imagine living without hearing, which is quite understandable,
so from their point of view they are doing everything they can to ensure their deaf or HI child will have the best opportunities possible to function in the hearing world.


Fuzzy

Lillys dad

I thought long and hard about having my daughter implanted. I spent months talking to different doctors, reading medical articles, sitting in front of this computer for hours on end.
I understand what cloggy means, let me try to rephrase it. Cloggy, if I am wrong please say so. My daughter is deaf no matter what she does. Hearing aids, still deaf. Implant, still deaf. She will always be deaf no matter what she uses/does to communicate. I have no intention of trying to change who/what she is. The c.I. is simply a tool for communication. Like any other tool, you have to know how to use it. The longer you use any specialized tool, the better you get at using it (hence the young implantation age). A mechanic has hundreds or even thousands of tools in his tool box right? Do you know why he has all of those tools? He has them so he will always have the right tool for the job. If you have the right tool, the job is easy. If you dont have the right tool, a simple job can be a pain in teh a$$.
The C.I. is simply another tool in my daughters tool box that she can use when working her way through life.
DISCLAIMER TIME- I am not at all implying that the C.I. is any better or worse than any other tool for communication. It is just another option she will have when she gets older.

deafdyke

lili'sdad......GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A parent's job is to equip the child with as many tools as possible! Well I think a lot of folks are acting really defensive b/c they see a lot of parents with their heads in the sand.

Audiofuzzy

Well It's true "not use it = lose it",

but as a HI who went totaly deaf later in life let me tell you no matter how well one perfected the use of his/her tools there is always huge stress resulting simply from an effort that is required to communicate (which is quite exhausting even if the person is not aware of the stress), and sooner or later there is always an ugly communication barrier to appear BOINK and no matter how good HA or CI or lipreading you can't get past it in other words you can't communicate at all sometimes, and it's an awful feeling.

So, IMO involving BOTH deaf and hearing ways is a must. It would require a lot more work than with just chosing one side but very well worth it IMO.

As you mentioned yourself, implant or not your daughter is deaf first and foremost, so she should have ties to deaf culture even if just to know there something to fall back when she's exhausted from living in hearing world..
(I am saying that in case if you separated her from it..)

Fuzzy

VamPyroX

:post:

You're right. It's just a tool. No matter what a person does, he/she will still be deaf.

Sadly, there are a lot of students here who are deaf and wear hearing aids to help them hear. Yet, they go around saying that they aren't deaf or ashamed to call themselves deaf.

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Audiofuzzy

Sadly, there are a lot of students here who are deaf and wear hearing aids to help them hear. Yet, they go around saying that they aren't deaf or ashamed to call themselves deaf.

Well I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with wearing HA per se,
but the way one perceives lack of a sense of hearing.
For some, having to use hands or other means (besides speaking and listening) for communication is for some reason embarassing.
Deaf, blind, somebody who is missing some body part/s etc does stick out from average crowd. I suspect this is mainly what motivates people to see themselves as " deaf" or "hearing" - 'deaf' being different, perhaps even less able.
Some people does not want to be different.

It is surely even deeper than that..

Fuzzy

Liebling:-)))

How do you know that his daughter is happy with her CI because she is only 3 years old? Babies to toddlers didn´t know what CI or HA is...

I ask you please to not label us as anti-activists but respect us because we are not agree to implant babies to toddlers with CI until they are old enough to decide what they want to have CI or not. Please respect our opinoin... Its about open mind when I am for to let my child to have choice, not do what I want for my child.

Thank you

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Liebling:-)))

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Liebling:-)))

rockdrummer and Cloggy,

I respect you as parents but it´s just our feeling as parents. It´s too scary to implant babies´s to toddler´s head with CI. I rather to leave my child´s choice because it´s them who wear CI rest of their life, not us.

I rather to have risk-free is HA.... I wear my baby with HA until he/she is old enough to understand what CI is... If she/he want to have it then I will be happy to support them. I let my child to mix with hearing, deaf, CI and HOH children to let my child to learn his/her own experiences. You know that the children have feeling...

I am sure that I told you in other threads that 8 years old son of my friends have a feeling and want to have CI for 2 years until his parent fulfilling his wish at last. It´s good for the children to know that his/her parents respect what he/she is. I would do the same as my friends if I have deaf child.

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ismi

Clarification: do you mean anyone with a serious hearing loss is deaf? I.e., I qualify as 'deaf' because I can't hear at all without my hearing aids? The only problem with that is that every time I tell a hearie "I am deaf" ... it would turn into a huge discussion of deafness, deaf culture, etc., etc. That definition just doesn't fit with the way the word is used by the mainstream population.

rockdrummer

I completely respect your opinion but in my case it was not that simple. My child had contracted meningitis due to a spinal fluid leak in one of his ears. It turns out that he had a malformed cochlea which is where the leak was coming from. After the bout with meningitis the first thing to do was pack that ear so there was no further leak and so he would not contract this deadly infection again. Due to the malformation and packing, this ear would never be a candidate for a CI. The other ear was a candidate but we had to make a decision rather quickly because based on x-ray, ossification was already setting in. If I didn't decide at that point, my child would not have been able to make the decision ever. It was heart wrenching going through almost loosing my child from meningitis to having to get this thing implanted in his head in less than a one month period. We decided to do it based on those facts and I can tell you it was not an easy decision and it had NOTHING to do with accepting my child for who he is. I love my children with ever fiber of my being no matter what. If the circumstances were different, I am sure our entire thought process would have been different as well.

Please keep in mind that not everything in life is cut and dry….. or black and white. There are almost always unique circumstances in each case and one solution will not fit everybody’s needs. The reason we chose to go with the CI was because the window of opportunity to have it done was almost shut. As it turns out, the CI has no benefit for my son because of the ossification and now he has this useless thing stuck in his head. Even knowing this if I was faced with that decision again under the same circumstances, I would have done the same thing. It has nothing to do with acceptance and everything to do with wanting my child to have the best chance in life to achieve.

Lillys dad

Rock drummer, I'll beat em to it. By saying he wants to giv ehis child the best chance in life to acheive, is not saying that it is the only way his child can acheive. It is merely saying that with the C.I., his child will have an easier time communicating.

LisaMarie

lilys dad.. im just curious why do you think its easier to commuincate? how about sign language? its easier too? just asking.

ismi

You're being facetious here. Or you're incredibly dense - not sure which. Is sign language a rich language that is easily accessible to the deaf? Yes. Is it spoken by the majority of the American population? No. Communication isn't just about what you can produce and receive - it's about who you can connect with.

LisaMarie

hey hey take it easy!!!! im just asking!

neecy

Sure you're "just asking" - but WHY ask such an asinine question, when the answer is blaringly obvious? It looks like you're trying to incite people here.

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LisaMarie

obviuosly u havent see my post in another CI READ IT!

Angel

I don't mind parents implants their children with CI, but for babies I don't feel comfortable since they're soo little...


I know that implanting children with CI will be the best interest afterall, the earliest they're implant the better the result will be and they even will improve their speech and language develop also....I hope parents out there will make this decision wisely and not to jump too quickly without knowing much fact about the implants and always go within the heart knowing you are doing the right thing for your child not for what others think would be best for your own children...

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ayala920

Can this thread please not become another, "Like, ohmygod, you totally suck for implanting your kid. DeAf RoCkZ!!!"? I'm actually curious to hear why parents have chosen implants for their children, or even why they haven't. I don't think this thread was started with the intention of having people fight (again).

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"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

R2D2

Good point Angel. The whole of parenthood is like that. There is always someone who feel they know what is best for your child - usually mother in law! It is important for the parent to have the confidence to say "no, I've made the best decision for my child" and to resist pressure to do otherwise.

It's fine when other people provide facts for you to consider in making your decision and then they accept your final decision. It's another when they start putting emotional pressure on you such as implying you are an irresponsible parent, being horrible, cruel to your child.

I reckon that's one of the hardest things about parenting - having the confidence in your own decisions. I remember how when we had my daughter we had her sleep with us next to us in bed, so that I could feel her when she woke in the night for her feed. My MIL was horrified. And yet it seemed the most natural thing to do as a deaf mother. It was working very well for us but it's awful when someone implies you are being a irresponsible, bad parent.

DefLord

I understand what Lilly's Dad is trying to say - but keep in mind. When we have people from other countries coming to the U.S. what language do they have to speak? English. Same for those foreigners who come to American schools they HAVE to take ESL so they can speak, write English. ASL has nothing to do with it. The world is 99% hearing, and that is something we as a deaf community will have to accept. Now if we as the deaf community had 50% then I would argue why should we bend over their ways. But unfortunately it doesn't work that way. We can choose to communicate in any way or form we want. There are places I have been or seen or visited - where they had signs posted on the walls English Only (because some people do speak other languages - Guess the boss didn't want to find otu if the employees were talking behind hsi back hehehe!* But point being is - parents are trying to do their best - and they look at it as a communication tool so their child can try to be the best they can be. I mean we have to be realistic - residential schools are getting smaller and closing. Even Gallaudet my Alma Mater from what I heard has changed drastically as well - it is not the same and the classes have shruken. So keep your chin up - I only use my CI during work. Any other time, it comes right off my head! I use it for one purpose - for increase opportunity for better communication and an opporunity to move up! *Which I know I will get eventually - only time will tell!*

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Billy

R2D2

Good points Deflord.

We are also have the same thing happening in Australia in regard to numbers at educational facilities for deaf children. I have a friend who works in a signing unit and he said that numbers have fallen so much due to immunization programs that they now accept children with multiple handicaps, whose numbers are increasing due to the fact that more of them are surviving at birth.

rockdrummer

God bless you Angel

I knew this would go off on a CI vs. no CI tangent but didn't think it would happen so soon. I started this thread in order to get the reasons why parents have chosen to implant their children. I believe so far there has only been two responses (including my own) that have addressed this question. I don't mind people offering opinions here but can we please stick to the question. The goal here is to hopefully educate folks on the circumstances surrounding this very difficult decision.

Thank you

Angel

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go off-topic in your thread...

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rockdrummer

Thank you Angel. This is clearly a heated topic and there are currently other threads where the CI vs. no CI debate rages on. I hope that we can hear from some parents that have chosen CI's for their children and the reasons and circumstances that surronded their decision.

Thank you