Cloggy

I agree with you. You know your children are mature enough to make a sound decision. I probably feel the same with my children when they grow up.
But SarahsDad drew from his memory of his childhood. He stated that he was not mature enough. And then it's for the parent to choose, not the child.

Where do you stand on tongue-piercing???? Would you let your child make the decision for itself?

Deafness

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Cheri

Cloggy,

You certain you know how to read?

"A history of better test scores by deaf children of deaf parents--as compared with those of deaf children with hearing parents"

You see that? Since you think CI does it all?? Well, guess what hun, Deaf parents don't implanted their deaf children, and deaf children do well than deaf children with Hearing parents.

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neecy

If this is true, how come my friends from RIT/NTID who came from hearing families and went to meanstreamed schools had better english speaking/reading/comprehension skills than friends I had who had deaf parents and went to deaf schools?

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Cloggy

HI Cheri,
Where did I misread?

Do you realise that they are talking about deaf children with hearing parents, not deaf-with-CI!! Where do you get the idea from that they are talking about CI-children with hearing parents?

Cheri

Don't be so naive, You know that some hearing parents implanted their deaf children.

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Cloggy

Where did I misread?

Cloggy

[Mod's Edit - previous quote removed]

NO no no.
I went through your articles and could not find a place where it said that this included CI-children.

You provided 3 links, then put a quote under it as if it comes from any of those links, but I cannot find it. I'll keep on trying but you cannot just give up because you can't answer the question.
Show me....... OK found it.. (btw... do you realise the article is 17 years old!!!) still looking for "CI-children included in study"....

Liebling:-)))

The owner of tattoo/piercing is not allow to offer underage children piercing/tattoo without parental´s permission...

My children don´t like piercings... If they want one then I suggest them to wait until they are 18 years old.

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Liebling:-)))

Neecy lost her hearing to deaf when she was 9 years old.

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neecy

your point? I can't offer an opinion or ask for clarification of posts already made here because I lost my hearing when I was 9?

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Friends are angels that lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

Cloggy

So... "she isn't deaf" or "she can't hear"?

Liebling:-)))

I have no idea why you are upset with my posts. I see no problem to have your opinion offer, etc but I only remind Cloggy that you was hearing for 9 years, that´s why you have no problem to familiar with sounds which different from deafs from birth. Right?

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Cheri

You think those articles don't know that hearing parents implanted their deaf children? Oh come on.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/cochlear/default.htm

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/c...n/kristina.htm

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Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

Cloggy

Have a look here
DEMOGRAPHIC ASPECTS OF HEARING IMPAIRMENT:
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Third Edition, 1994

Cloggy

Still no mentioning of Ci-kids in the study.

VERY interesting the quote of Harlan Lane:
How can you believe this dribble when I have explained all over that my child learned speech, "acquiring oral language with the implant ". The quote was wrong when he wrote it (1996) and is getting more and more rediculous.

Harlan Lane writes in a superb way about Deaf culture but knows NOTHING about CI.
Even his last article (published last october) was totally missing the point. He's popular by Deaf culture because of his connection with them, and then everything he says about CI is believed by the same persons that worship him.

Again, read Lane to learn about Deaf culture. Stay away from him if you want good information regarding CI.

Cheri

Cloggy,

I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI, but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness, Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.

But, Cochlear implants have not yet prove that the culture of Deaf people can be taken away from them, because now that more hearing parents are implanting their children. Pretty soon in the nearest future, the whole Deaf Culture will be wiped out.

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Cloggy

Which article? I haven't seen anything negative about CI. I'm sensitive because you say that deaf children of hearing parents do worse that deaf of deaf parents. You assume CI-kids are included, I say that they are not. (The go to other schools.....)
Where have I done this????... come on Cheri, you cannot make a statement like that and not back it up. I have never discussed "negatives about deafness" since I focus on "success of my daughters CI"What are you talking about????.... That's another topic. I have not even been in that discussion....

Why do you change the subject????....

Have you read the article I gave you regarding level of education of deaf v.s. hearing people?

Have you found where CI-kids are included in the studies?

CutePommie

Well said !!!! same goes for me I thanks for my hearing parents too they did wonderful to brought me up they dont use the sign languages because the LEA was not allow parents to use signs It was long time ago.. so I am happy that I have good hearing parents ... .. Damn Cloggy eh ... he just wont accept it as to be it !!!!

CutePommie

[QUOTE=Cheri]Cloggy,

I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI, but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness, Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.
[QUOTE]

Exactly very much so !!!

Cloggy

It just shows how well you read posts.... Cheri is assuming that... go bite her!! Have a look here. And since she only believes stuff that is backed up by a link, this must be true, no matter what anyone says on the messageboard.

I do not believe this. I am the parent of a deaf child, just like your parents are.

Cousin Vinny

I have no reason to doubt the veracity of studies Lane conducted with this (admittedly) small sample size of 1,000 CI'ers. The results of the study as reported by Lane, certainly are not surprising. Back then, and not surprisingly so, the CI regimen did not work for the vast majority of DHH children, resulting in significant language development issues.

It would be nice if Lane could update his research, expand the scope of his studies, and perhaps, write another book in a similar vein to his earlier and pioneering works. It will be interesting to see any differences, observations, and deviations Lane will come up in describing the current state of Deafness and implications for Deaf Culture in the 21st century and beyond.

Foxrac

Again, CI does not help children to voice, listen and talk itself at all time unless anyone who get implant when 1 or 2 years old so it will be successful for some children, not all children do.

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In Moto We Trust

Cloggy

Even in 1996 there were children that allready aquired language.
His last publication was in october, and he stayed away from CI.
I'm also looking forward to his next book.

Cloggy

First of all, there's nothing "Again" about your statement. it's a completely new statement.

IslandGal

He did post about it in one of the threads.

Cloggy

Well, I missed that. It's definitely not in the last 15 posts he made.

SarahsDad

Cloggy,
Thanks so much. Your reply is important to me since you have been in our exact situation, desperate to make the right choice for your child.

I'm happy that things have worked out well for your daughter and family. It's obvious that you are informed and did not make the CI decision lightly.

When I posted Reasons Against CI, that was listed first because I didn't want to be misunderstood. It hurts when people assume that a parent's choice of CI for their child is largely selfishly motivated and that the child is not accepted somehow. Those who feel this way, have they ever been parents?


The CI, no CI debate, especially with regard to children is such a heated topic. When I see this, it makes me think, why is there so much disagreement?
I think maybe:
- huge knowledge gaps exist on all sides of the debate, both in personal experience, and factual knowledge.
- what's at stake is extremely important.
- fear.
- win/loose mentality, I'm right, you're wrong, and let me show you why.
- fefensiveness making it hard to keep an open mind.
- misrepresented facts, either accidentally or on purpose. Real facts and real truth are hard to come by. "There is a link to it on the internet, so it must be true!".
- there is no one correct answer for all situations. A Deaf family raising a Deaf child is not the same as a hearing family raising a Deaf child where no one in the family signs, and only 20%(?) of the parents will become ASL literate.


Thanks,
SarahsDad

IslandGal

Some of us including me who have spoke out our opinions are parents.

Cloggy

You are right.
As you might have noticed, there is a lot of misinformation. That's why I feel it's important to inform about my own experiences, and I hope you will stay here and do the same.

A big problem is that when someone says "I don't like doctors drilling in the brain of a baby." there often is no reaction, and therefore it would be true. I am here to react straight away to prevent that this misinformation stay's without correction.
Often, the explanation is just ignored and it will pop up a in the next thread.

You might have seen that there is also great information. People sharing their experience and telling deaf people unfamiliar to CI what it is like. Some might listen, some will just ignore it and keep believing what they assume is right.
Most of the time, they do that because of the fear of the unknown. Imagine that your whole life you have been working hard to accept your deafness, and then someone say's "My daughter doesn't have to accept her deafness because I gave her CI." Their world will be upside down. All this work they had to do in hteir life, and now there are other options that they did not have. As said, this is not the normal situation but at times this is probably true.

But have a look at the thread where misconceptions regarding CI are discussed (here)
The only reaction was that no link was provided.
So, good information is just ignored. It's not discussed because that would mean you would have to read what it says. That would be dangerous because it would show that you were wrong. Better not to read it and stick to the personal believes. When you haven't read anything that contradicts your belief, it must be correct. And the best way to hold on to those idea's is..... not to read any opposing information....

Anyway. Stay in this messageboard and keep me informed about your daughter. From what I read from you, her dad is making a very informed decision. She's a lucky girl.

Cloggy

And it is appreciated. Most of the people are parents.
So, how come that a parent who loves his daughter more than anything else has to defend himself regarding his love for his child.

As a parent, it should be obvious that the child is loved beyond anything. Nobody should feel the need to make that obvious.
As a hearing parent I cannot feel how a deaf parent feels, and vice versa, but the love for our child is universal.

And of course there are examples where parents rejected the child because of it's deafness, or ignored the deafness, pretending that it was not real. But those parents are not fit to be called parents. And any comparison between them and hearing parents on this forum, or assumption that all parents are like that are an insult.