GrendelQ

This has been touched on before but I think only in threads that were deleted and gone: have any of you been or do you know of deaf people on this forum who were educated in the way that you would consider 'ideal?'

I think most of you were raised in mainstream environments, some at schools for the deaf, and a handful in different types of oral school environments. Some used spoken language, some sign, some SEE, some CS and so on at home while growing up. I know many of you have written about doing great DESPITE educational or language environments you think were awful. But I'm looking for people who think their educational and language environment contributed positively to who they are now, I'm looking for educational/language experiences that are good models for what has worked well (not cautionary tales of what your parents did wrong ).

I know that 'ideal' is subjective, and even though I'm hoping to see some examples where ASL and a bi-bi school were part of the mix, I'm really looking for any type of 'best case scenario,' so my request is not necessarily limited to the bi-bi approach we've chosen for the little one. But please let me know if you are an example of an educational and home language environment 'done right'. Thanks!

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posts from hell

First: happy birthday to your little one, not sure when that was, must been recent.

Second: what is "done right"??? It's subjective. SilenceGold will come in here saying SEE rocks and he was raised ideally. If you want to hear stories of a deaf school sending a kid off to an university full time for the last two years of high school lemme know. I'll tell you my experiences...

Whats this for?

GrendelQ

Thanks -- Thursday was her big day: she's 5 , nearly out of the nest!

But if Silence Golden wants to chime in, that's OK with me, I want to get it straight from the horse's mouth and I'm not judging anyone's feelings about their background -- I just want to hear what environment has worked for different people. And I DID consider you an ideal model of a great educational/language experience but then you went and dashed my expectations by telling me you have succeeded DESPITE a SEE-based learning/language environment you do not back any longer.

It's really just for me, I'm coming across some young adult 'success stories' of deaf kids who took a particular approach and are happy, healthy, enjoying their path. But, I haven't seen any that have taken anything like the path we're taking -- I'm not afraid to pioneer a path that I believe in, but I'd also love to find someone who has come out on the other side of growing up after doing something similar. And I want to get a well-rounded set of examples of different approaches that work, regardless of whether or not it's what we do.

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posts from hell

One only needs to look at the history books to see where everything is coming from.. Before SEE and Mainstream came along, deaf people had high employment levels and great English... This was with ASL.

I just feel that everything is muddled now. Politicians see deaf schools as a huge expensive thing because it shows big dollar bills on the paper, while they don't see the expenses on paper when it's spread out in public education system...

I would be more than glad to discuss this but I feel that you already know most of my story and I'll be biased as all hell. But if you have any questions, just hit me up.

Daredevel7

Do you believe that the ASL-based environment is the same back then (before SEE/Mainstream came along as you said) as it is now? Education wise? Social wise?

posts from hell

Completely different. Look at all the "deaf clubs" out there. Chances are that most of them were established between 1935-1965. Visit them, look at the bylaws and such. Chances are that they still have the original ones. Some of them still have women pay this much and men pays that much for memberships. Excellent thinking, structure and English in all of them.

Back then Deaf schools had extensive job training as well. They had farms, they had broom making, they had automotive, printing, etc etc. Kids were already trained for the working world when they graduated. These days zip, zlich.

Society oppression on the deaf has lessened a bit, but has a long ways to go.

AlleyCat

You're absolutely right about the deaf club(s) being established a LONG time ago -- at least for here in Mpls/St. Paul. I can tell you, however, that has changed totally. It used to be the "old-timer's" hangout that none of us younger deaf people would be caught dead at. But something has changed within the last 5-10 years -- it is chock full of deaf people my age (40) or younger, and a big mix of education, training, etc. among all of us. It is a lot of fun to hang out there now.

posts from hell

Ive heard that. Good to know. Many others are shrugging the younguns off.

shel90

Wanted to add..many of my coworkers who have worked at deaf programs or schools for a long time say that today's kids are different. That there are more kids with language delays and deficits than in the old days before PL 94-104 was passed.

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deafskeptic

I remember a Deaf frind who refused to take courses like these because they were "vocational" jobs.

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Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

posts from hell

hows he doing?

Tousi

Yeah, Thompson Hall, right?

Gma

My guess is across the board it is all crap. Deaf school or local district....no difference. Yes there are the exception, but overall - CRAP. You have schools, "professionals", etc. all creating a new method to teach the deaf because years ago people were unsuccessful....right? Read some of the educational journals - it is a disaster what they are doing to these kids treating them as guinea pigs.

Now you have the deaf adults who could give a CRAP about introducing Deaf children into the fold. ASL will die a quick death with the apathy. If it wasn't for hearing adults .... nothing would be done for Deaf children around the country......I've come to the conclusion that is a good thing.

Check out the scores - the lowest belong to the deaf school.
Hearing Impairments

deafskeptic

I haven't seen her in years and I've not kept in touch with her so I dunno.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

posts from hell

and you know the selections of the students in VSDB? How did they get there?

deafdyke

Hehehehehehehe....exactly PFH...... What most people don't understand is that most kids at deaf schools aren't K-12ers. In many states deaf school is arbitarily picked as the "last resort...Many kids make amazing progress when they're finally placed there....but they still score low compared to kids who have gotten that quality of education for years and years.
And I had an entire EXTENSIVE post all written out, when my computer froze up.......GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
Yes. But that's b/c schools for the deaf were seen as low skilled vocational centers....and broom making? Sure you're not mixing us up with Schools for the Blind? There are a few Deaf Schools with good vocational programs, Maryland School, Missouri, and Virginia School.........but yeah I agree with you. It seems like nowadays vocational programs are either an afterthought or more like training for service or menial jobs. Did you know even Clarke and CID had vocational programs back in the day?
Yes, back in the old days, kids at deaf schools were behind public schools. Now with a wholesale one size fits all mainstreaming policy, you get a lot of kids falling though the cracks majorly!

deafdyke

Didn't want to have a novel long post, so dividing up my responses.
Well....bi-bi is still really new. I think they were putting on the finishing touches with this approach when I was still in school. Also, bi bi/deaf school with a kid who has hoh listening level abilties is really new. I do have to bring up something.
I think ASL and spoken English fluent kids will do the best overall.
Were you aware that there is a simlair sitution in Blind ed?
Braille is very much entwined with blind ed. People think all blind kids learn Braille. That used to be true back in the old days. In 1960 50% of all blind kids were taught in Braille. Nowadays it's only 10%.The tendancy was to use large print and books on tape and stuff like that...In other words low vision aids. It was thought that blind kids did not need Braille. I even have a friend who went to Perkins and didn't even get to learn Braille?!?!? The kicker? 90% of those who are Braille literate are employed?!?! Sound familiar?
You're right on mainstream...... Well maybe not mainstream programs, but then again those types of programs are really hit or miss. But you are dead on with solotaire mainstreaming. But SEE was only introduced in 1972. Before then it was ORAL, and in the later grades it was the combined system. (both speech and Sign) In the past century there was never exclusive use of ASL to teach dhh kids. It was very under the table.
And yeah I agree with you..........and one thing that politcians are missing is that while maisntreamed kids aren't in special schools, they're still acheiving in low rates on acheivement and exit exams. Disabled kids are a very common group to not pass or score low on acheivement exams.

Gma

This is part of the point. My grandson is stuck in a public school with two other students in his class that he has nothing other than deafness in common with, and the deaf in the state allowed the state to turn the state deaf school into a hell hole. WTF!!!

Bottesini

What makes you think the "deaf in the state" had any power?

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Gma

Yeah, silly me. That would require them to take up a common cause for the good of the children and I guess that is not possible - but I be darn if they can't put together a DNO once a month.

Bottesini

Let's see, are you in Kansas City now??


Maybe someone there can find you some assistance in your fight to educate your family.

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Gma

Unfortunately, I'm from any town U.S.A.

deafdyke

Huh? How did the DEAF turn the state deaf school into a hell hole? You know, the deaf school option has NOT been the norm for decades now. Most kids who attend deaf schools end up there after being underserved in the mainstream. THAT is really what the problem is.
There are some really good deaf schools believe it or not..........why cant your grandson move to a state where there are better deaf schools/deaf ed options? Kansas School, Wisconsin School, the California Schools, RMDS, TLC, all good deaf schools.. How old's your grandson? Maybe when he's a bit older he could go to MSSD.
I'm actually kind of surprised that the Hampton mainstream programs aren't better. I know back in the old days when Hampton had the School for the Deaf and Blind, they had academic kids. i would have thought there would still be some good established mainstream programs as a result.

posts from hell

Then I'll have to take your word with a grain of salt.

Gma

You should take it with a grain of salt followed by a Margarita, and I am in Hampton. The deaf school in Hampton became multi-handicapped. Prior to this move I sent my daughter to Staunton. They have since closed Hampton and combined the schools so that now Staunton is now a multi-handicapped school not a deaf not a deaf/blind.....

Where as my grandson has a teacher who is fluent in ASL and fortunately she is also deaf - academics is fine...social not so much. Like this weekend we have to go to Richmond to give him the opportunity to play with deaf children, yet the Tidewater area has the greatest population of deaf kids in the state other than the northern area near d.c. I know there are really good state schools, but the financial ability to move. If there could just be some activities for kids locally it would be great, but there seems to be absolutely no interest. I hear the same from other parents too. Deaf adults should be seeking out these parents to support them and get support from the hearing parents for such things as a deaf school thats not turned into mush.

posts from hell

Why do you think it has became so scattered?

GrendelQ

Thanks DD, I know that after Stokoe's work promoting the legitimacy of sign in the early 60's, ASL and cued speech and then the manual codes became more common in the classroom. TLC established its bi-bi program in 1970, and apparently there were a few other schools nation-wide -- mostly res. schools -- doing the same by then.

When we researched CIs, I'd gotten access to several of the now-young adults who were implanted in the first wave as children -- but these all followed the AVT approach and none were using ASL. Now, CIs have only been part of the full educational experience since ~ 1990. So that's really new, and yet there's a significant number of 20 year olds who can give their direct perspective and a sense of how they did in their environment.

I want to get the same stories from those in their 20s whose educational and home language experience incorporated ASL. Bi-bi programs and sign in the classroom have been around (or 'back') for the past 40-50 years. I've corresponded with a few 20-somethings who graduated from my daughter's school, one was our family babysitter until she left for college at Gallaudet, and I know there's a well established group of deaf adults who have learned and lived in an ASL-based environment. I'm just surprised that this group doesn't seem to be represented here. I could be totally wrong on that, just haven't yet identified those who grew up with what many here are describing as the recommended approach: ASL language at home, bi-bi school for the deaf.

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deafdyke

Gma, I don't think it was the Deaf that screwed things up. I think the state made the mistake of "Oh its called a deaf/blind school" Why does the state need TWO deaf-blind schools?" without realizing that most Hampton kids were multihandicapped. What they should have done, was sent the academic deaf/blind kids to Staunton, identified any multihandicapped kids at Stanton and turned Hampton into a mutlihandicapped school, a la the Helen Keller School that's a part of Alabama School for the Deaf and Blind, or like the way they turned Western PA and Maryland Schools for the Blind into a school for multihandicapped blind kids. Either that, or had a school within a school for the multihandicapped kids. I thought most Deaf Schools did that. I did think however, that most multihandicapped deaf kids are more on the LD/mild MR end of the spectrum, rather then moderate and below (most of those kids tend to be either in pediatric nursing homes or schools for kids with MR)

Well at least academics are good! I thought you were bashing the quality of the academics...Why is it so hard to get people togehter to hang out? Maybe you could start a regional organization.....kind of a regional playgroup or something. There's also summer camps and stuff.

deafdyke

That's b/c most young adults of today were either solotaire, may have attended a poorly run TC public school program, or learned ASL after attending CID, Clarke or St. Joseph's. Did you know Clarke's boarding program was BOOMING just 15 years ago? (45 students) I think too.....our hearing losses were idenfied at a late age (compared to today), so a lot of education was basicly just catching up.

Gma

The multi-handicapped kids are not necessarily deaf and most are not. I just wish there were more opportunity for kids to socialize and hearing parents to meet deaf adults. I was lucky enough to have those experiences with my daughter and find it a shame that there is no strong deaf group here in the Tidewater area.