jillio

If the topic bothers you, go away.

Deafness

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shel90

Still?

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"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

GrendelQ

I had no prior idea my child was deaf. But my daughter's deafness has not and will not have any bearing on the expectation I had to love, care for, cherish, and raise an amazing human being. I know grief, and I would indeed grieve that loss deeply, but thank goodness, I've not experienced it and retain great hopes.

Jillio, I was hoping for some insight from you, given the build-up, but I really think you are crossing the line in this amateurish attempt to build a psych. profile. Your analysis is exposing a lot more about your own issues and fears regarding deafness than mine, and that seems to be the case as you try unsuccessfully to unpack FJs head as well. I'm sure you think that you know best, that's obvious in your approach, and can assess what's going on in our minds better than we do. But consider too that you may simply be projecting your own fears, undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto us. Just as you described denial, projection too is a common process that every one uses to some degree.

Some wonderful parents like WeeBeastie grieved a loss of expectation, some didn't. I don't think you are qualified as the arbiter of how all parents ought to react to learning a child is deaf. There's no template we have to follow, no matter how much you want to see your world vision validated by my experience.

Perhaps we all should follow your advice in one sense and 'stick to the topic' -- which is the bill, not what expectations you ascribe to new parents. Not all of us expected ballerinas.

kokonut

Very aptly put. Yes. Let's stick to the topic. A thread can always be made to cover this area but who wouldn't want to be psychoanalyzed in every orafice by a person pearing over its glasses looking down at you taking notes? I agree, Grendel. Your experience is your own personal one. All I can say is that a devoted and loving mother is the best one to have. Li's is blessed to have you. Just as I have been blessed by a devoted and loving mother of my own growing up.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

faire_jour

As I said before, one of my good friends did greive when her child was found to be deaf. She is Deaf and so is her husband and his entire family. Clearly she grew up with a Deaf perspective and knew what it was like to be Deaf, but she still was extremely upset and had to work through her feelings. Every parent and family is different and reacts differently.

jillio

Well, GrendelQ, the only amateurish attempt that is being undertaken is the one that you, personally, are attempting now. Of course there is no template you have to follow. You can follow any template you choose. However, there are those templates that lead to healthy results for both parent and child, and there are those that lead to less than heathy results for both parent and child. The parent that cannot admit the negative experience certainly is not free to elaborate on the positive.

Regarding my own deaf child...I have no issues and fears. My son has been raised in a bilingual environment by a parent who is unafraid to be honest regarding her emotional reactions. He is currently a graduate student at a major hearing university. He is living, and has always lived, a happy and successful life, inpart because he had a mother that saw no need to make him a reasonable facsimile of a hearing child, and freely admits that raising a deaf child is not the same experience, for the child or the parent, as raising a hearing child. Only when one can admit that those adjustments to life and expectation are necessary can one free oneself to actually receive the help and advise that is most beneficial. That would be the help and advise of those that have walked that road and made a success of it, as well. Namely, not the audiologists, not the surgeons, not the "hearing experts", but the deaf/Deaf themselves. Until you are able to admit to the differences, you will never be able to ask the people who are the most valuable to your daughter how to deal with those differences. Consequently, you will be shutting out the most valuable resource you can have.

The sad fact of the matter is, deaf children continue to suffer the negative effects of the parent who refuses to honestly admit their emotional reaction, and spends all of their time denying it. "I didn't grieve! OMG, that would make me a horrible mother! And I will prove I am not a horrible mother...look at all I do. I got my child surgery, I spend 24/7 turning my home into a speech center, I go to therapy with her. How dare you say I would grieve." That kind of frenzied action in a attempt to change what is instead of accepting what is the root of so many of the difficulties we are seeing in deaf children today.

So, yes, GrendelQ...you are free to choose any template you desire, as is any other parent. But then, you are also free to accept the consequences of that choice. And never forget, that many of those consequences will be experienced not just by you.

jillio

Then what happened?

faire_jour

Clearly she listens to the advice of Deaf people, that is why Li-Li's first language is ASL and she attends a bi-bi school for the Deaf. Perhaps she doesn't listen to hearing people who believe they speak for the Deaf community and all "good" hearing parents.

jillio

Such a narrow perspective. And such qualification. What exactly is your fixation on "good parent"? It is certainly not a term I have ever used.

faire_jour

It is you who believes there is only one right way to raise and educate a deaf child. I believe that many different things work for different children.

jillio

I believe nothing of the kind. Which is why I say it was a narrow perspective.

faire_jour

So you believe that deaf children can be successful without ASL?

jillio

Define successful. That is a wide and varied term, and one that is extremely subjective.

faire_jour

First would be happy. But then from there it would mean living up to their personal potential. Of course that is very individual, but generally they would be equal to hearing peers in language, educational and vocational success, etc.

kokonut

I am one of them.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Tousi

Koko, but you have ASL and are good at it........just rarely used, eh?

jillio

Depends. We need a definition of successful. Self report is notorious for being less than credible. But then surely you already know that.

Frisky Feline

I thought you do know ASL or sign language, not without ASL.

souggy

Well, he's certainly haven't gained any sense of autonomy.

__________________
"It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

jillio

Do I believe a deaf child can be happy without ASL? Sure. But, then again, happy is subjective and largely a self created concept. Living up to personal potential. Personal as in character wise, or personal as in ability to achieve academically and occupationally? Equal to hearing peers in langauge, vocational success, and academically? What if their potential actually places them in the position of being able to far surpass their hearing peers' performance. Then equal to is not living up to their potential. In other words, a child who is not provided the tools they need to access their environment will always be stunted in their achievement, simply because they do not have the tool necessary. I personally am not satisfied when a deaf child with an IQ of 140 performs at an average level. They are capable of so much more.

jillio

And I would consider autonomy to be a large part of successful living.

faire_jour

The question is whether or not a deaf person can grow up to be successful without ASL, not whether or not ASL is useful. I grew up without German, and I did fine, but if I learn German as an adult it doesn't mean I was incomplete without it.

jillio

Again, you are going to have to start quantifying. And useful things contribute to success.

souggy

That comparison doesn't make sense. Where did you grow up in the States that German was important?

Your comparison would make more sense if you grew up... in say Quebec.

__________________
"It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

kokonut

Right, sort of. I began signing well into my adulthood when I first attended Gallaudet for 3 years. None of my signing had anything to do with my success today in terms of what I do and have done. I owe my successes to my hearing aid, my auditory-oral upbringing, the ability to hear well and communicate among my hearing peers and such that laid the groundwork for my past and future successes. Though I am successful in my ability to communicate with others using sign language. But in terms of academic, work, the ability to interact with the hearing population, I've been successful with that. All without the need of signing. So, yes, to answer F_J question, one can be successful without ASL. It is an area that's quite subjective and several factors are involved in making it work.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Frisky Feline

I was referring to his quote "without ASL". I know he did know ASL. I wasn't talking about his being successful.

everyone can be successful with or without ASL only if they work hard for being successful is what it is all matter. But their self esteem is something that I don't know about, from my own experience. I am not going to discuss from there because I am no expert at it.

jillio

See there. Evidence that self report is notoriously innacurrate.

kokonut

I do know ASL/sign language as you put it. But that wasn't the question F_J was asking.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Frisky Feline

what made you attend to gallaudet? just your own curiosity?

faire_jour

There are 1.5 million German speakers in the US. and between 100,000 to 1 million users of ASL. (http://gri.gallaudet.edu/Presentations/2004-04-07-1.pdf)