Why do they make Deaf students spend their first three years at college taking no ..

dreamchaser · 05-14-2008, 12:47 PM

I have been reading that Deaf college students are having to take 3 years of non credit courses. Is that a wide spread truth, or just sometimes for some people?

If it is true, is it because the students are not getting enough education information from interpreters? or is it because they were in an envirnment that didn't allow for sign? The things I've been reading say that Deaf students only get about a 4th grade literacy skill before entering college. Why is that?

What do you think can be done to fix this?

3 years extra in college is a long time.

Boult · 05-14-2008, 01:31 PM

is that similar to this?

Update on Chad and His Parents - You're Not Going to Like This.

or are you still referring to mainstreamed students because you mentioned interpreters?

dreamchaser · 05-14-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

is that similar to this?

Update on Chad and His Parents - You're Not Going to Like This.

or are you still referring to mainstreamed students because you mentioned interpreters?

I don't think the articles mentioned whether or not it was mainstreaming or just all Deaf students. It made me mad. Is it just a standard procedure?

Brian · 05-14-2008, 01:38 PM

Remedial classes?

dreamchaser · 05-14-2008, 01:40 PM

Hey, thanks for the link... Yeah, that is exactly what I mean.. I have spoken to real live friends that told me the same things, and they were mainstreamed. I just wanted to see if it made a difference if they came from a Deaf school or mainstream or if it is just standard procedure.

Why are they not spending more time in literacy classes instead of ???? It seems to me that literacy is the most important thing. If you are literate, you can learn most anything. It is sad.

Boult · 05-14-2008, 01:45 PM

FYI: I didn't graduate from my high school (hearing) at all, I just completed 11th grade and took Stanford Test and passed and met NTID/RIT's criteria for admission back in the 80's when I had class partner, I would notice their skills was dismal than mine that make me think in back of my head, "how the hell he/she get in with this crap!!!" so I ask him/her, "Did you really graduate?" "yes" "12th grade?" "yes" "which school?" "my deaf institution" (in asl meaning deaf residential school) I nodded "I see, me hearing mainstream nice meet ya"

back in the 80's English system at NTID was so weak... they could admit any student into English Composition then liberal arts with lousy grammars! what's important is creativity... That's what the liberal art chairperson told me when I went to see her to find out what's up...

(see my list of school I went: http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-educatio...tml#post199017 )

dreamchaser · 05-14-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

FYI: I didn't graduate from my high school (hearing) at all, I just completed 11th grade and took Stanford Test and passed and met NTID/RIT's criteria for admission back in the 80's when I had class partner, I would notice their skills was dismal than mine that make me think in back of my head, "how the hell he/she get in with this crap!!!" so I ask him/her, "Did you really graduate?" "yes" "12th grade?" "yes" "which school?" "my deaf institution" (in asl meaning deaf residential school) I nodded "I see, me hearing mainstream nice meet ya"

back in the 80's English system at NTID was so weak... they could admit any student into English Composition then liberal arts with lousy grammars! what's important is creativity... That's what the liberal art chairperson told me when I went to see her to find out what's up...

Is it still that way in Deaf school? Are they focusing more now on literacy? Geeeeez, that is so sad. It will take 7 years in college just to get a BA. I also heard that very few Deaf students are attempting the higher degrees. Is that true?

Boult · 05-14-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

Is it still that way in Deaf school? Are they focusing more now on literacy? Geeeeez, that is so sad. It will take 7 years in college just to get a BA. I also heard that very few Deaf students are attempting the higher degrees. Is that true?

I don't know what's it is like now in 2008 What I saw was in 80's

when I say NTID/RIT I was referring to college not deaf school.

shel90 · 05-14-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

Is it still that way in Deaf school? Are they focusing more now on literacy? Geeeeez, that is so sad. It will take 7 years in college just to get a BA. I also heard that very few Deaf students are attempting the higher degrees. Is that true?

I work in a Deaf school and literacy is the #1 priority but the problem is we get more than half of our students referred from the mainstreamed programs with language delays or get students in kindergarden with little or no language. however, we got a new program that has gotten like so many students skip 2 grade levels this year alone with reading.
I am really excited about this new program!

jillio · 05-14-2008, 11:30 PM

Actually, they don't spend their first 3 years taking non-credit courses. All students are tested upon admission, and assessed in 3 areas: reading, writing, and math (generally referred to as quatitative skills). If a student is determined to be fiunctioning below the level needed to do college level work, they will be asked to complete a developmental course designed to bring their skills to college level. These courses are for credit unless they exceed 12 hours. During the time that developmental courses are being completed, the student can take other college courses in their major. These courses generally do not add more than a quarter or a semester to the time needed to complete a degree, and quite often, do not add to the time necessary to complete degree coursework at all. This is not something that is applied to just Deaf students, but is applied to all students.

Brian · 05-15-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I work in a Deaf school and literacy is the #1 priority but the problem is we get more than half of our students referred from the mainstreamed programs with language delays or get students in kindergarden with little or no language. however, we got a new program that has gotten like so many students skip 2 grade levels this year alone with reading.
I am really excited about this new program!

Hello Shel90, I want to make sure I understand this. Let's say...a student, aged 15 in the 6th grade is moved to 8th grade so he could graduate at 19 instead of 21? Is this what your school is doing/trying to do?

dreamchaser · 05-15-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Actually, they don't spend their first 3 years taking non-credit courses. All students are tested upon admission, and assessed in 3 areas: reading, writing, and math (generally referred to as quatitative skills). If a student is determined to be fiunctioning below the level needed to do college level work, they will be asked to complete a developmental course designed to bring their skills to college level. These courses are for credit unless they exceed 12 hours. During the time that developmental courses are being completed, the student can take other college courses in their major. These courses generally do not add more than a quarter or a semester to the time needed to complete a degree, and quite often, do not add to the time necessary to complete degree coursework at all. This is not something that is applied to just Deaf students, but is applied to all students.

So, what I am hearing is dependent upon the student's ability. That is a relief. I was beginning to think it was standard.

Reba · 05-15-2008, 09:44 AM

Depends on the college. The school with which I have experience has a "developmental" program where students (hearing and deaf) can take but they are not for credit. Once they pass the developmental math, reading, and writing courses, then they can take entry level (100 series) courses for credit. Then, they can take courses that apply towards their majors.

Taking all three of the developmental courses and passing them depends on the student. Some get it done in one semester, some take one year. Some students have to take the courses more than once before they pass.

dreamchaser · 05-15-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I work in a Deaf school and literacy is the #1 priority but the problem is we get more than half of our students referred from the mainstreamed programs with language delays or get students in kindergarden with little or no language. however, we got a new program that has gotten like so many students skip 2 grade levels this year alone with reading.
I am really excited about this new program!

That is so awesome. I know literacy is a problem for the hearing kids too. I put 9 kids through school, and I am amazed at how many of their friends are so iliterate in their senior year. pretty bad.

so, Shel, how does sign fit in? Is it true that kids that learn with sign learn literacy better? I mean as long as they have some form of SEE for literacy?

dreamchaser · 05-15-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Depends on the college. The school with which I have experience has a "developmental" program where students (hearing and deaf) can take but they are not for credit. Once they pass the developmental math, reading, and writing courses, then they can take entry level (100 series) courses for credit. Then, they can take courses that apply towards their majors.

Taking all three of the developmental courses and passing them depends on the student. Some get it done in one semester, some take one year. Some students have to take the courses more than once before they pass.

Rheba, is there anybody that keeps stats on the percentage of Deaf students who go for the higher degrees?

Jiro · 05-15-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Actually, they don't spend their first 3 years taking non-credit courses. All students are tested upon admission, and assessed in 3 areas: reading, writing, and math (generally referred to as quatitative skills). If a student is determined to be fiunctioning below the level needed to do college level work, they will be asked to complete a developmental course designed to bring their skills to college level. These courses are for credit unless they exceed 12 hours. During the time that developmental courses are being completed, the student can take other college courses in their major. These courses generally do not add more than a quarter or a semester to the time needed to complete a degree, and quite often, do not add to the time necessary to complete degree coursework at all. This is not something that is applied to just Deaf students, but is applied to all students.

Yea she's right. It is not discriminated toward to people with disability. I think the test's called "PROFICIENCY TEST" or something.

Reba · 05-15-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

Rheba, is there anybody that keeps stats on the percentage of Deaf students who go for the higher degrees?

I personally know many deaf adults who have two-year degrees, four-year degrees and higher.

I also personally know many deaf adults who are functionally illiterate.

The deaf population is varied.

jillio · 05-15-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiro123

Yea she's right. It is not discriminated toward to people with disability. I think the test's called "PROFICIENCY TEST" or something.

It's called placement testing. The system we use is COMPASS.

dreamchaser · 05-15-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I personally know many deaf adults who have two-year degrees, four-year degrees and higher.

I also personally know many deaf adults who are functionally illiterate.

The deaf population is varied.

I know that the Deaf community is the same as the hearing when it comes to ability. So much depends on teachers and their ability to explain things and to keep your interest etc., plus it depends on your interest in a subject.

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND>>> geeeeez, sounded good, but it has shut down many of our Oregon schools.

I, for one, had no idea that the Deaf community had a problem with literacy. I don't think most people know how hard they have to work to excel in that.
I was wondering about PHDs. I heard somewhere that enrollment was down in the higher mode... How does one pay for that high of a level of ed? Grants? Scholarships?

dreamchaser · 05-15-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It's called placement testing. The system we use is COMPASS.

Did you read the link that was posted further up? It said that it was considered normal for deaf people to have a fourth grade level reading???? Is that true?

Bottesini · 05-15-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

I know that the Deaf community is the same as the hearing when it comes to ability. So much depends on teachers and their ability to explain things and to keep your interest etc., plus it depends on your interest in a subject.

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND>>> geeeeez, sounded good, but it has shut down many of our Oregon schools.

I, for one, had no idea that the Deaf community had a problem with literacy. I don't think most people know how hard they have to work to excel in that.
I was wondering about PHDs. I heard somewhere that enrollment was down in the higher mode... How does one pay for that high of a level of ed? Grants? Scholarships?

About Oregon school closings, I think if you check, it had more to do with state budget cuts.(Pretty sure my literacy at least grade 8.)

Reba · 05-15-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It's called placement testing. The system we use is COMPASS.

Similar here. It's computer-based, self-paced progam, with a live instructor for one-on-one help.

jillio · 05-15-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamchaser

Did you read the link that was posted further up? It said that it was considered normal for deaf people to have a fourth grade level reading???? Is that true?

What they aren't telling you is that the average high school graduate (hearing) graduates with a 5th grade reading level.

And grade level testing, because of the way it is scored, is deceptive.

jillio · 05-15-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Similar here. It's computer-based, self-paced progam, with a live instructor for one-on-one help.

Yeppers. There are several different systems, but all are similar.

dreamchaser · 05-15-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

About Oregon school closings, I think if you check, it had more to do with state budget cuts.(Pretty sure my literacy at least grade 8.)

That is what I had said before. It was all about money. The blind school was worth a lot, and the hospital is close to it. Salem hospital and some other developers made some pretty impressive bids. But one of the issues that they used to try to push for the merger was that enrollment is down in the Deaf school. A lot of that has to do with the fact that it is not being promoted around the state. Kids are screened and then steered towards the implant and mainstreaming.

My whole point was this.. If the kids are going to be mainstreamed in larger and larger majorities, wouldn't it be nice if they had access to Deaf culture and to sign.??? Ya know, if the muhamad won't come to the mountain, then move the mountain to him???? (just an old sayin)

05-14-2008, 12:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
dreamchaser Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 560 Blog Entries: 1	Why do they make Deaf students spend their first three years at college taking no .. I have been reading that Deaf college students are having to take 3 years of non credit courses. Is that a wide spread truth, or just sometimes for some people? If it is true, is it because the students are not getting enough education information from interpreters? or is it because they were in an envirnment that didn't allow for sign? The things I've been reading say that Deaf students only get about a 4th grade literacy skill before entering college. Why is that? What do you think can be done to fix this? 3 years extra in college is a long time.

05-14-2008, 01:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
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05-14-2008, 01:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
dreamchaser Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 560 Blog Entries: 1	Hey, thanks for the link... Yeah, that is exactly what I mean.. I have spoken to real live friends that told me the same things, and they were mainstreamed. I just wanted to see if it made a difference if they came from a Deaf school or mainstream or if it is just standard procedure. Why are they not spending more time in literacy classes instead of ???? It seems to me that literacy is the most important thing. If you are literate, you can learn most anything. It is sad.

05-14-2008, 11:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,163	Actually, they don't spend their first 3 years taking non-credit courses. All students are tested upon admission, and assessed in 3 areas: reading, writing, and math (generally referred to as quatitative skills). If a student is determined to be fiunctioning below the level needed to do college level work, they will be asked to complete a developmental course designed to bring their skills to college level. These courses are for credit unless they exceed 12 hours. During the time that developmental courses are being completed, the student can take other college courses in their major. These courses generally do not add more than a quarter or a semester to the time needed to complete a degree, and quite often, do not add to the time necessary to complete degree coursework at all. This is not something that is applied to just Deaf students, but is applied to all students.

05-15-2008, 09:44 AM	#13 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,237	Depends on the college. The school with which I have experience has a "developmental" program where students (hearing and deaf) can take but they are not for credit. Once they pass the developmental math, reading, and writing courses, then they can take entry level (100 series) courses for credit. Then, they can take courses that apply towards their majors. Taking all three of the developmental courses and passing them depends on the student. Some get it done in one semester, some take one year. Some students have to take the courses more than once before they pass.