WWIII has begin? - Page 3

Steinhauer · 11-27-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What if any country attacked the USA in the same manner? What would you expect?

we will invade their country and topple their government. (Like the last two that tried).

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Who says it's necessary to wipe the country off the map? There's a wide range of military options between doing nothing and wiping a country off the map.

when you wipe out the government, you wipe out the country. I pray that we won't have another Afghanistan/Iraq situation.

Remember - majority of NK people really do have an extreme view of the world and South Korea. They truly think we are the merciless enemy out there to kill them. They believe we are the cause of their poverty and starvation. They have been indoctrinated about it for decades.

also... it is not easy to take out NK's weapons since they're deeply buried in mountains. The Korean peninsula is extremely mountainous. It makes Afghanistan mountain looks like a beginner's training ground for rock climber. The only effective way to take it out is to resort to heavy hitter... which will lead to a serious collateral damage.

NK citizens will believe we are invading them and they - both men and women - will defend their country against tyranny (us from their viewpoint).

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

yep, one would be to bomb their illegal nuke plant.

that would be seriously reckless and foolish. it's not like a nuke plant can produce several nuclear bombs per day. Beside - I have heard that USA/SK do have a joint military operation to raid and secure the nuke power plants in case of war.

USA has the same procedure for Pakistan in case it has fallen to rogue military dictatorship.

Have you learned nothing from Iraq? If you destroy the infrastructure, we'll be stuck in foreign country for a long time. It's messy and costly. Secure the nuke plant and convert it into nuclear power plant for NK. It's cheaper and cleaner that way. You will win NK's hearts and minds easily that way.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What if any country attacked the USA in the same manner? What would you expect?

how's Afghanistan and Iraq going? find any WMD or Osama bin Laden yet?

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

when you wipe out the government, you wipe out the country. I pray that we won't have another Afghanistan/Iraq situation.

It's not the same situation, and I doubt that it would be handled the same way.

In WWII, governments were wiped out but the countries were not wiped out. In fact, our country helped rebuild them better than ever.

Quote:

Remember - majority of NK people really do have an extreme view of the world and South Korea. They truly think we are the merciless enemy out there to kill them. They believe we are the cause of their poverty and starvation. They have been indoctrinated about it for decades.

That doesn't excuse the actions of their government and military.

Quote:

also... it is not easy to take out NK's weapons since they're deeply buried in mountains. The Korean peninsula is extremely mountainous. It makes Afghanistan mountain looks like a beginner's training ground for rock climber. The only effective way to take it out is to resort to heavy hitter... which will lead to a serious collateral damage.

We certainly don't want a land war with them again. We suffered way too many casualties with that kind of combat.

Quote:

NK citizens will believe we are invading them and they - both men and women - will defend their country against tyranny (us from their viewpoint).

That may be but that doesn't mean it's OK for the North to attack the South without repercussions.

Steinhauer · 11-27-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

that would be seriously reckless and foolish. it's not like a nuke plant can produce several nuclear bombs per day. Beside - I have heard that USA/SK do have a joint military operation to raid and secure the nuke power plants in case of war.

USA has the same procedure for Pakistan in case it has fallen to rogue military dictatorship.

Have you learned nothing from Iraq? If you destroy the infrastructure, we'll be stuck in foreign country for a long time. It's messy and costly. Secure the nuke plant and convert it into nuclear power plant for NK. It's cheaper and cleaner that way. You will win NK's hearts and minds easily that way.

Israel did it to Iran.... twice.

We have stealth bombers ... lets get some use out those tax payer dollars.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It's not the same situation, and I doubt that it would be handled the same way.

In WWII, governments were wiped out but the countries were not wiped out. In fact, our country helped rebuild them better than ever.

yes we did help out but it's actually Europeans helping out each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That doesn't excuse the actions of their government and military.

just stating the complicated reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

We certainly don't want a land war with them again. We suffered way too many casualties with that kind of combat.

That may be but that doesn't mean it's OK for the North to attack the South without repercussions.

well - the North hasn't attacked the mainland yet. We came close this time... My father's in Seoul. So are rest of my families.

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

how's Afghanistan and Iraq going? find any WMD or Osama bin Laden yet?

Are you saying that because there were no WMD, or bin Laden is still on the loose, that we should have just sighed, shrugged, and said, "oh,well" after 9/11?

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Israel did it to Iran.... twice.

um... "Nuclear Research Center"..... not a nuclear power plant that manufactures nuclear weapon.

What Israel did was stupid. If they did it again, I pray USA will cut off any military assistance for Israel.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Are you saying that because there were no WMD, or bin Laden is still on the loose, that we should have just sighed, shrugged, and said, "oh,well" after 9/11?

what we should done is exercising with extreme restraint. Look at what our knee-jerk retaliation brought us. Do we want same for South Korea?

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

that would be seriously reckless and foolish. it's not like a nuke plant can produce several nuclear bombs per day. Beside - I have heard that USA/SK do have a joint military operation to raid and secure the nuke power plants in case of war.

From whom did you hear that?

Quote:

USA has the same procedure for Pakistan in case it has fallen to rogue military dictatorship.

What same procedure?

Quote:

...Secure the nuke plant and convert it into nuclear power plant for NK. It's cheaper and cleaner that way. You will win NK's hearts and minds easily that way.

Oh, I'm sure that would win their hearts and minds.

I'm equally sure that the N. Koreans would allow that to happen.

Not.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

From whom did you hear that?

What same procedure?

Elite US troops ready to combat Pakistani nuclear hijacks - Times Online

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Oh, I'm sure that would win their hearts and minds.

I'm equally sure that the N. Koreans would allow that to happen.

Not.

so I guess our effort in Afghanistan and Iraq went futile.

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

what we should done is exercising with extreme restraint. Look at what our knee-jerk retaliation brought us. Do we want same for South Korea?

I think we and S. Korea have restrained ourselves beyond reason so far.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I think we and S. Korea have restrained ourselves beyond reason so far.

keep it up. our restraint will buckle their regime. Why reinforce NK propaganda that motivates their soldiers to fight?

Steinhauer · 11-27-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

um... "Nuclear Research Center"..... not a nuclear power plant that manufactures nuclear weapon.

What Israel did was stupid. If they did it again, I pray USA will cut off any military assistance for Israel.

if they didn't do it, we would have.

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Elite US troops ready to combat Pakistani nuclear hijacks - Times Online

Is this what you refer to?

"The US army is training a crack unit to seal off and snatch back Pakistani nuclear weapons in the event that militants, possibly from inside the country’s security apparatus, get their hands on a nuclear device or materials that could make one.

The specialised unit would be charged with recovering the nuclear materials and securing them."

Where is the attribution? Who said that? Did the reporter just make it up?

Quote:

so I guess our effort in Afghanistan and Iraq went futile.

I'm trying to figure out the connection you're attempting to make.

Futile in what sense for each country?

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

keep it up. our restraint will buckle their regime. Why reinforce NK propaganda that motivates their soldiers to fight?

We've been restrained for over 50 years, and I don't seen their regime buckling.

Whatever we do or don't do, their propaganda will use it for their purposes.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

if they didn't do it, we would have.

no we didn't. we scolded Israel.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

We've been restrained for over 50 years, and I don't seen their regime buckling.

Whatever we do or don't do, their propaganda will use it for their purposes.

you know this... how?

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you know this... how?

The cease fire period--have we attacked N. Korea yet?

Or are you referring to the propaganda?

Do you understand the nature and methods of propaganda?

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The cease fire period--have we attacked N. Korea yet?

Or are you referring to the propaganda?

Do you understand the nature and methods of propaganda?

about the regime not buckling. We won Cold War. We can win it again and we didn't even fight.

**Jiro** · 11-27-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Is this what you refer to?

"The US army is training a crack unit to seal off and snatch back Pakistani nuclear weapons in the event that militants, possibly from inside the country’s security apparatus, get their hands on a nuclear device or materials that could make one.

The specialised unit would be charged with recovering the nuclear materials and securing them."

Where is the attribution? Who said that? Did the reporter just make it up?

Plausible Deniability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I'm trying to figure out the connection you're attempting to make.

Futile in what sense for each country?

to win their hearts and minds. did we fail at it?

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

about the regime not buckling. We won Cold War. We can win it again and we didn't even fight.

N. Korea's communist regime has not buckled since the cease fire began, so how is any further restraint going to cause them to buckle?

We succeeded in the Cold War against the USSR but it wasn't by backing down to Soviet threats. Do you remember the Berlin Airlift, the Cuban Crisis, Reagan's Berlin Wall speech, MAD, etc.? The times that the Soviets backed down were the times that we flexed our muscles and stood firm. It wasn't when we let them get their way. The times that we "restrained" ourselves, they took advantage of our weakness.

Have our decades of restraint caused China or Cuba to buckle and reject their communist regimes?

We're straying from the current Korean topic.

**Reba** · 11-27-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Plausible Deniability.

You're not answering my question.

"Where is the attribution? Who said that? Did the reporter just make it up?"

The reporter does not say what or who was her source. For all we know, she just made it up. That's not good reporting.

Quote:

to win their hearts and minds. did we fail at it?

Overall, yes. In limited areas, on one-to-one situations, we were successful.

Study: Few Afghans Know About 9/11, Reason for War | CommonDreams.org

**Jiro** · 11-28-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

N. Korea's communist regime has not buckled since the cease fire began, so how is any further restraint going to cause them to buckle?

how would you know? We all know it's on the verge of collapse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

We succeeded in the Cold War against the USSR but it wasn't by backing down to Soviet threats. Do you remember the Berlin Airlift, the Cuban Crisis, Reagan's Berlin Wall speech, MAD, etc.? The times that the Soviets backed down were the times that we flexed our muscles and stood firm. It wasn't when we let them get their way. The times that we "restrained" ourselves, they took advantage of our weakness.

Have our decades of restraint caused China or Cuba to buckle and reject their communist regimes?

We're straying from the current Korean topic.

we're not straying from topic. It's all related to how it can buckle NK's communist regime. We never retaliated nor attacked during Cold War, didn't we? and against China too, didn't we? and Cuba? Not a single war.

beside - we already retaliated back. what more do you want? Korean War II? Easy for you to say that we should retaliate back when you're 7,000 miles away from North Korea while our families are within eye sight of NK's missile strikes in Seoul.

We must exercise with extreme restraint and UN Secretary General Ban (South Korean too) is suggesting same. We both fear for our birth country and our people.

**Jiro** · 11-28-2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

You're not answering my question.

"Where is the attribution? Who said that? Did the reporter just make it up?"

The reporter does not say what or who was her source. For all we know, she just made it up. That's not good reporting.

She wouldn't be a good reporter if she gave up her source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Overall, yes. In limited areas, on one-to-one situations, we were successful.

Study: Few Afghans Know About 9/11, Reason for War | CommonDreams.org

Steinhauer · 11-28-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

no we didn't. we scolded Israel.

Of course we did ... publicly too (in private, different matter - the sighs of relief couldn't be heard by the press).

**Jiro** · 11-28-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Of course we did ... publicly too (in private, different matter - the sighs of relief couldn't be heard by the press).

ok *pat pat pat*

**Jiro** · 11-28-2010, 01:19 AM

a reply from my dad (don't mind his English)

Quote:

Here a lot of tension exist after North Korea's bombing.
It looks a political action rather than a real threat.
So the rest of life is peaceful amid a concern of uncertainty..
The past regimes of Korea for 8 years had a policy of getting friendly to North Korea for peaceful solutions. During this period, the Korea army has been weakened and relaxed.
The current regime observes conservertism and has been strengthening the military power against the North Korea. But it is still vulnerable and not well prepared.
Now the Korea ramps up the miliary investment against the North. It will take time.
The joint military practice with the Korea and the US in the largest scale starts tomorrow. The North keeps threating against this practice. So a tension is stepping up.
Anyhow don't worry much about the situation here.
It should be okay.

dad

**Foxrac** · 11-28-2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

how would you know? We all know it's on the verge of collapse.

we're not straying from topic. It's all related to how it can buckle NK's communist regime. We never retaliated nor attacked during Cold War, didn't we? and against China too, didn't we? and Cuba? Not a single war.

beside - we already retaliated back. what more do you want? Korean War II? Easy for you to say that we should retaliate back when you're 7,000 miles away from North Korea while our families are within eye sight of NK's missile strikes in Seoul.

We must exercise with extreme restraint and UN Secretary General Ban (South Korean too) is suggesting same. We both fear for our birth country and our people.

In bold, what about Vietnam War?

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