WWIII has begin? - Page 15

**Jiro** · 12-01-2010, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I would like to know more about that. I have a deaf friend from Taiwan that mentioned his disappointment with US History books.

We learn much more about what happened in Europe than we ever did about what happened in Asia during WWII.

no one likes to lecture about the wars we didn't win

To learn more about Korean's involvement in Vietnam War - you can simply pick up English-version of Korean history book or borrow some books from library. I don't know any good book. It's just the story told by my father and Korean friends.

It scares me to read more about Korean's involvement because they were that ruthless. Even scarier - we did same to our fellow Koreans during "Red Scare" when some South Koreans favored communism - harsh interrogation and public execution. That's how ROK knew how to effectively interrogate Vietnamese villagers.

Anyway, some civilians were forced to "sympathize" with communism because it was the only way to get food and when the Communism Hunters found out... they interrogated and executed them. It is not surprising that some of executed people's loved ones avenged them by joining the Red Army.

a blockbuster movie in Korea - Tae Guk Gi.

**Jiro** · 12-01-2010, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear2much

Hell yeah. Most people don't even know much about Nanking! A Shame

or No Gun Ri.....

300 Korean civilians slaughtered by American soldiers....

Steinhauer · 12-01-2010, 02:44 AM

My Lai 4

**Reba** · 12-01-2010, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

or No Gun Ri.....

300 Korean civilians slaughtered by American soldiers....

There is still controversy about that. There is debate about the number of casualties (from 8 to 400), and the three main witnesses were proven to be frauds.

In From the Cold: The Ghosts of No Gun Ri

No Gun Ri, late July, 1950

Did the Associated Press Misrepresent the Events that Happened at No Gun Ri?

No Gun Ri | Ask.com Encyclopedia

Grummer · 12-01-2010, 03:10 PM

all in all i liked this thread, when i re-read it again with a clearer head (no i just been busy) i actually learnt alot and from all sides, i gave b everyone equal worth of their efforts in the debate about the mid-20th century war,(WW2) its really good, and i found Jiro's contribution espeically enlightening as well giving views of which those of us didnt get to be in/see this thread we may never have an oppurtunity to learn more. Thanks to everyone and Jiro and CraigM, so on...cheers to all!

Grummer · 12-02-2010, 03:46 AM

and, nearly forgot to mention Reba, she has my respect here!

**Jiro** · 12-02-2010, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There is still controversy about that. There is debate about the number of casualties (from 8 to 400), and the three main witnesses were proven to be frauds.

In From the Cold: The Ghosts of No Gun Ri

No Gun Ri, late July, 1950

Did the Associated Press Misrepresent the Events that Happened at No Gun Ri?

No Gun Ri | Ask.com Encyclopedia

I guess my grandma, my parents, and entire Korea are wrong then....

**Jiro** · 12-02-2010, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

all in all i liked this thread, when i re-read it again with a clearer head (no i just been busy) i actually learnt alot and from all sides, i gave b everyone equal worth of their efforts in the debate about the mid-20th century war,(WW2) its really good, and i found Jiro's contribution espeically enlightening as well giving views of which those of us didnt get to be in/see this thread we may never have an oppurtunity to learn more. Thanks to everyone and Jiro and CraigM, so on...cheers to all!

you're welcome

**Reba** · 12-02-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I guess my grandma, my parents, and entire Korea are wrong then....

I didn't say that.

The Americans who reported it were wrong--they lied.

Apparently, this is something that is still under investigation.

Something terribly wrong did happen at No Gun Ri but the details are not clear.

**Reba** · 12-02-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

and, nearly forgot to mention Reba, she has my respect here!

Thank you. *blush*

**Reba** · 12-02-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

all in all i liked this thread, when i re-read it again with a clearer head (no i just been busy) i actually learnt alot and from all sides, i gave b everyone equal worth of their efforts in the debate about the mid-20th century war,(WW2) its really good, and i found Jiro's contribution espeically enlightening as well giving views of which those of us didnt get to be in/see this thread we may never have an oppurtunity to learn more. Thanks to everyone and Jiro and CraigM, so on...cheers to all!

Yes, I, too, appreciate the new perspective that Jiro gives to the discussion.

Yes, all the contributors have been involving us in a refresher course in history!

**Jiro** · 12-03-2010, 01:14 PM

What is life like inside North Korea? - CNN.com

Quote:

Why did Kim Jong Il never launch China-style economic reforms?
Experts say that for him to have done so after Kim Il-Sung's death would have shown disrespect to his father's legacy. Since then, Kim Jong Il's leadership and system has calcified, meaning that any significant reforms launched would be highly risky for what some now consider a brittle regime.

Quote:

What is the nature of North Korean society today?
In state propaganda, the Kim personality cult, the anti-Japanese struggles of the 1930s and the Korean War of the 1950s (which North Korea insists was started by the South) are central to national identity and explain why the state sinks so many resources into its military. Communism was officially struck from the Constitution in 2009; today the state's characteristics lean more towards fascism: intense nationalism, socialism and a "military-first" policy.

Quote:

Is Kim Jong Il firmly in charge?
Politically, yes: He controls the armed forces which, at 1.2 million (among a 23 million-strong populace) makes North Korea perhaps the world's most militarized state. But economically, many experts believe that regions outside Pyongyang -- Kim's showpiece capital and the home of the favored elite -- have become increasingly autonomous, due to the failure of centrist distribution policies.

Quote:

What is the economy based upon?
Since the state releases no economic date, this is a statistical void, but the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development estimated the North's economy in 2009 as being worth US$40 billion, roughly the same as that of Panama. North Korea was one of the world's most heavily industrialized nations, but due to power shortages and chronic underinvestment since the 1990s, most of this capacity lies silent. However, the country is known to produce military hardware -- notably missiles -- and chemicals; it also exports high-value added foodstuffs (seafood, mushrooms, etc.). The service sector earns some foreign currency with tourism, animation and software. The nation boasts veins of coal, iron ore, limestone, magnesite, graphite, copper, zinc, lead and precious metals. Finally, there is strong evidence that a secret directorate channeling money to Kim Jong Il earns hard currency through sales of military goods, contraband tobacco and narcotics. Money is needed for Kim to buy the allegiance of the elite, and these are the sectors U.N. sanctions are designed to impact.

Quote:

Are there any signs of free market economics?
Some. Low-end cross-border trade with China has expanded since the late 1990s. Black markets and farmers' markets have always been permitted in limited forms, but since the 1990s have expanded as the state-run distribution sector faltered. Few consider this real reform, however; most analysts see official tolerance of markets as being less about reform, more about acceptance of essential economic survival mechanisms. Central authorities periodically crack down upon market activity to reassert the primacy of central distribution, but such efforts have been increasingly ineffectual in recent years, indicating a weakening of central control. A currency re-evaluation at the end of 2009 was reversed after reported unrest: The move wiped out the savings of a nascent entrepreneurial class and led to hoarding of goods and produce.

Quote:

How do North Koreans live?
If not members of the elite or the privileged military, poorly. The country is one of the world's most destitute, with the CIA estimating per capita GDP at US$1,900, meaning that many North Koreans survive at the subsistence level. With the state industrial sector largely idle, many citizens reportedly rely on state asset stripping, hoarding, trading and personal farm plots to survive. Amid economically booming Northeast Asia, North Korea is, literally, a black hole: At night, due to power failures, the lights go out.

Quote:

Who are North Korea's investors and partners?
Primarily China, though there is limited investment from Southeast Asia and Europe. South Korea operates the Kaesong Special Industrial Zone, a border enclave where North Koreans work in southern factories. With Beijing maintaining strong political ties with Pyongyang -- which it sees as a buffer on its northeast border -- and investing heavily in the dilapidated state's natural resources, some South Koreans worry that North Korea is becoming an economic colony of Beijing. Many nations -- including most of Western Europe -- have diplomatic representation in Pyongyang, though key players Japan, South Korea and the US do not.

Quote:

What do North Koreans really think of their leadership?
One demonstration of the effectiveness of the personality cult is the surprising number of defectors who are loath to speak ill of Kim Jong Il himself, blaming the country's problems instead on those around him. In the 57 years since the end of the Korean War, fewer then 20,000 defectors have fled to South Korea.

Quote:

How serious are North Korea's human rights abuses?
The country keeps the doors of its labor and "re-education" camps firmly closed, but from the testimony of defectors who escape, it is clear that due process is largely absent, internees' family members suffer incarceration alongside internees, and near starvation diets and brutal treatment at the hands of guards are commonplace. Public executions have been filmed, and some who have fled the country have made allegations of torture, forced abortions and even the testing of chemical or biological weapons on prisoners. Organizations as diverse as Amnesty International, the UN and the US State Department are highly critical of Pyongyang on the human rights front.

Quote:

Is North Korea a military threat?
The country's military suffers from outdated equipment and fuel shortages but possesses significant asymmetric capabilities -- notably massive special force units, biological and chemical weapons and heavy artillery dug into bunkers and ranged on Seoul. The country possesses both atomic materials and long-range missiles, although it is believed to have neither a nuclear warhead nor a missile with the range to reach the continental United States -- yet. While many analysts say North Korea would never launch another war, which would spell the end of its regime, some fear that a pressured Pyongyang might lash out as a last resort. Another worrying scenario is of internal chaos, collapse or civil war, with factions competing for possession of fissile materials. With the country threatening both South Korea and Japan, any military action could have catastrophic effects on global capital markets.

Quote:

Who is Kim Jong Un?
He is the third son of Kim Jong Il and the man who, analysts in the South believe, is going to be named his father's successor, though there has been no official confirmation from the North. Being a scion of the most secretive family in the world's most secretive state, virtually nothing concrete is known of him. He is believed to have studied in Switzerland, and to share many of his father's personal characteristics. His older half-brother, Kim Jong-nam, was expected to take power but today resides in Macau, where he is believed to operate businesses; he has told Japanese reporters that he has no interest in taking power. The middle brother is Kim Jong-chul, but according to the memoirs of one former regime insider, he is regarded as "un-manly" and not a potential successor.

Quote:

Are there other power personalities among North Korea's elite?
Jang Song-thaek, Kim Jong Il's brother-in-law, is widely considered Kim's right-hand man. He has accompanied Kim to Beijing, and many analysts expect him to guide the widely anticipated succession of Kim Jong Un. Jang's wife -- Kim's younger sister, Kim Kyong-hui -- has also been photographed widely with Kim on visits to military bases and factories, a strong sign of official favor.

Quote:

Is North Korea on the verge of collapse?
There are no such signs, though -- unusually -- reports of public unrest following last year's botched currency revaluation have leaked out. Whether or not the populace would support a third Kim seems irrelevant, as the nation is still so tightly controlled that revolution appears unlikely. But would Kim Jong Un wield real power -- as his father and grandfather did -- or would he be the puppet of powerful figures in the party or the military? This is unknown.

Steinhauer · 12-03-2010, 01:18 PM

South Korea's defense minister vows airstrikes if North Korea attacks - CNN.com

**Reba** · 12-03-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

What is life like inside North Korea? - CNN.com

craigm26 · 12-04-2010, 04:15 PM

for expanding people's knowledge

to everyone!

**Dixie** · 12-04-2010, 05:15 PM

From a National Geographic TV report, North Koreans as a whole are so cut off from the world that many do not even know a man has walked on the moon. Only the most loyal get to live in Pyongyang and many defectors never actually make it out of the country. Also from this same source, though N.K. has a large army, many soldiers are actually undernourished and only the best fed soldiers are kept on the borders. They don't join the military in support of the regime, they join the army to have an income only slightly less meager.

Many, even though in deplorable states of living, still stand behind Kim Jong-Il. They revere him as a living god and blame Americans for their poor state of living. The children are even taught nursery rhymes that speak of the 'bad Americans'.

Here's a link to it:

YouTube - Inside North Korea

**Jiro** · 12-05-2010, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie

From a National Geographic TV report, North Koreans as a whole are so cut off from the world that many do not even know a man has walked on the moon. Only the most loyal get to live in Pyongyang and many defectors never actually make it out of the country. Also from this same source, though N.K. has a large army, many soldiers are actually undernourished and only the best fed soldiers are kept on the borders. They don't join the military in support of the regime, they join the army to have an income only slightly less meager.

Many, even though in deplorable states of living, still stand behind Kim Jong-Il. They revere him as a living god and blame Americans for their poor state of living. The children are even taught nursery rhymes that speak of the 'bad Americans'.

Here's a link to it:
YouTube - Inside North Korea

yea saw that documentary in tv long while back. What I didn't like about it is Lisa Ling. She was unbelievably ignorant, insensitive, and stupid for making stupid comments or asking stupid questions. Does she not realize that she could get these people killed or punished once her news team leaves Korea?

to add insult to injury - her sister was captured in NK for intruding into NK. Those 2 sisters have to be the dumbest people in the world.

darkferret85 · 12-05-2010, 10:06 AM

world war 3 isn't happening. never.

world war 3 is gonna happen if few nations are in war against few nations like WW2 which was huge.

DDU · 12-05-2010, 10:18 AM

dang, not fighting. that means no OT for me

12-01-2010, 03:10 PM	#425 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,518	all in all i liked this thread, when i re-read it again with a clearer head (no i just been busy) i actually learnt alot and from all sides, i gave b everyone equal worth of their efforts in the debate about the mid-20th century war,(WW2) its really good, and i found Jiro's contribution espeically enlightening as well giving views of which those of us didnt get to be in/see this thread we may never have an oppurtunity to learn more. Thanks to everyone and Jiro and CraigM, so on...cheers to all! __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein Last edited by Grummer; 12-02-2010 at 03:21 AM.

12-02-2010, 03:46 AM	#426 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,518	and, nearly forgot to mention Reba, she has my respect here! __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein

12-05-2010, 10:18 AM	#439 (permalink)
DDU Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: north east Posts: 804	dang, not fighting. that means no OT for me __________________ when in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

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12-01-2010, 02:44 AM	#423 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	My Lai 4

12-03-2010, 01:18 PM	#433 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	South Korea's defense minister vows airstrikes if North Korea attacks - CNN.com

12-04-2010, 04:15 PM	#435 (permalink)
craigm26 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 1,291	for expanding people's knowledge to everyone!

12-05-2010, 10:06 AM	#438 (permalink)
darkferret85 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bedford, IN Posts: 15	world war 3 isn't happening. never. world war 3 is gonna happen if few nations are in war against few nations like WW2 which was huge.