Arizona to Secede? - Page 8

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

uh............................ I'm going to give you a chance to redeem yourself. Think very hard about what you just said there.

Methinks it is a loosing battle.

Brain is not engaged before words are typed.

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

One day, to quote Dick Cheney "The US Constitution is just a G Damn piece of paper", the Constitution as we know it will one day disappear and replace with Totalitarian rule, a One World Government, as it were.

Yiz

You might want to think about it before quoting Dick. He doesn't have the most credibility or respect.

However, he is good for a laugh.

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

which is why people like you are in the minority. a very very tiny minority. thanks God *wipe my forehead*

No doubt.

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:27 AM

[quote=TXgolfer;1587230]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Texas signed away their right to secede in the war of 1812.QUOTE]

That is kinda impossible.

But as for a right to secede......Well anyone can. But they may have to fight for it.

Not impossible at all. Right there in history. And it has already been cited.

souggy · 05-24-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not impossible at all. Right there in history. And it has already been cited.

Well, it's impossible if they're successful.

If it's not, well, not sure what would happen afterwards. That's up to the government to decide to do with a failed secession.

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

That's why all these revolutionary talks and secession talks don't make a lot of sense.

So yeah... you broke away and restored what you think is right, and ended up suppressing other people's ideas of freedom in place of your own. So how are the people any more free than they were before?

Exactly. Only a very distorted thought process is incapable of seeing the obvious.

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:29 AM

[quote=souggy;1587241]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Well, it's impossible if they're successful.

If it's not, well, not sure what would happen afterwards. That's up to the government to decide.

Big "if".

souggy · 05-24-2010, 11:31 AM

There's consequences for everything.

If Texas unsuccessfully seceded, the Treaty of 1812 will be used against them.

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

There's consequences for everything.

If Texas unsuccessfully seceded, the Treaty of 1812 will be used against them.

Yep. The very Treaty they signed that gave away their right to secede.

**TXgolfer** · 05-24-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yep. The very Treaty they signed that gave away their right to secede.

Can you provide a link for that?

jillio · 05-24-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Can you provide a link for that?

This thread, several pages back. You don't need a link. You are already here.

Glenn · 05-24-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Only if they pass an unconstitutional law and impose their will against that of the people.

It would not be overthrowing the Judicial Branch ... it would be restoring the Constitution of the United States ... ah .. those subtle differences.

The Supreme Court doesn't pass laws.

**Jiro** · 05-24-2010, 12:09 PM

hence my post #165... when seceding....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you do realize that if you keep spouting about "Founding Fathers" and "Constitution"... you are referring to the United States of America.... not an individual state.

I'm sorry but you cannot just secede from USA and then copy the US Constitution, American history, etc. as State Constitution. That is unpatriotic and un-American.

when you secede from USA,
You no longer identify yourself as American.
You no longer share American value.
You no longer share with the heritage (the first family generation in America).
You no longer share with American history.
You no longer extend respect for our men and women in uniform who are fighting for America

Royale · 05-24-2010, 12:36 PM

While I was having a hearty chicken breast salad, I read thru this thread.

Know what? It reminds me of Quebec's failed attempts to secede from Canada.

**TXgolfer** · 05-24-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

This thread, several pages back. You don't need a link. You are already here.

Don't see the link.

Obviously that link is incorrect wherever it is.

Texas was an independent nation from 1836-1846. Texas became part of the U.S. in 1846.

souggy · 05-24-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

While I was having a hearty chicken breast salad, I read thru this thread.

Know what? It reminds me of Quebec's failed attempts to secede from Canada.

***naisho*** · 05-24-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

While I was having a hearty chicken breast salad, I read thru this thread.

Know what? It reminds me of Quebec's failed attempts to secede from Canada.

That's what she said! (posted somewhere back 2nd page

)

Oh and, posting in a failed secession thread.

yizuman · 05-24-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

2. any decision made at the Supreme Court is absolute and final. there's no appeal process.

That include repealing the US Constitution and call it obsolete?

Yiz

souggy · 05-24-2010, 01:12 PM

My bad... 1845. PBS - THE WEST - The Annexation of Texas Joint Resolution of Congress March 1, 1845

Either way, the Supreme Court ruled in the 1860s that the Constitution called for a union. So, once it's admitted, it's part of the union.

Texas vs White

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salmon Chase

“ When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States. ”

**Jiro** · 05-24-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Don't see the link.

Obviously that link is incorrect wherever it is.

Texas was an independent nation from 1836-1846. Texas became part of the U.S. in 1846.

right here - Arizona to Secede?

**Jiro** · 05-24-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

That include repealing the US Constitution and call it obsolete?

Yiz

That is Legislative Branch's job. hint - 18t Amendment and 21st Amendment.

yizuman · 05-24-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you do realize that if you keep spouting about "Founding Fathers" and "Constitution"... you are referring to the United States of America.... not an individual state.

I'm sorry but you cannot just secede from USA and then copy the US Constitution, American history, etc. as State Constitution. That is unpatriotic and un-American.

when you secede from USA,
You no longer identify yourself as American.

Not necessary true. I'm an United States of America citizen by birth, but I was not born as an "United States Government" citizen.

You no longer share American value.

Let's see, killing unborn babies (which resulted in the deaths of 40 million dead babies since 1973) Repealing the death penalties for Rape, Child Molestations, Kidnapping and in some states, Murder. So that's the American Values. Yep you're right, I don't share that. And you forgot to add one more word, it's "American Government" values.

You no longer share with the heritage (the first family generation in America).

False, what is mine as I inherited cannot be undone or erased. Unless someone has a time machine to wipe out my first generation American family.

You no longer share with American history.

Yes I do, I share the "United States of America" History, but I don't necessarily share the history of the "United States Government"

You no longer extend respect for our men and women in uniform who are fighting for America

I respect the men and women that fights for our country, but not the men and women who fight for the Government. Big difference there.

Yiz

**TXgolfer** · 05-24-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

right here - Arizona to Secede?

Right.....so not 1812 as one has said 4-5 times.

I never maintained Texas had a "legal right" to secede. Only that it didn't happen in 1812.

Of course they could decide to secede illegally. Question is, would the U.S. try to do anything about it.

I wonder how many supported the revolution before it started???

**Jiro** · 05-24-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Not necessary true. I'm an United States of America citizen by birth, but I was not born as an "United States Government" citizen.

Let's see, killing unborn babies (which resulted in the deaths of 40 million dead babies since 1973) Repealing the death penalties for Rape, Child Molestations, Kidnapping and in some states, Murder. So that's the American Values. Yep you're right, I don't share that. And you forgot to add one more word, it's "American Government" values.

False, what is mine as I inherited cannot be undone or erased. Unless someone has a time machine to wipe out my first generation American family.

Yes I do, I share the "United States of America" History, but I don't necessarily share the history of the "United States Government"

I respect the men and women that fights for our country, but not the men and women who fight for the Government. Big difference there.

sorry but none of it makes any sense at all. I don't even know where to begin.

yizuman · 05-24-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

sorry but none of it makes any sense at all. I don't even know where to begin.

Welcome to the Government controlled education system whereas you're not allowed to think for yourself, but what the Government wants you to think.

Yiz

souggy · 05-24-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Not necessary true. I'm an United States of America citizen by birth, but I was not born as an "United States Government" citizen.

Actually, he's right on this one. When you leave the Union, you're no longer a citizen of the United States. When you're no longer a citizen of the United States, you're no longer an American.

Quote:

Let's see, killing unborn babies (which resulted in the deaths of 40 million dead babies since 1973) Repealing the death penalties for Rape, Child Molestations, Kidnapping and in some states, Murder. So that's the American Values. Yep you're right, I don't share that. And you forgot to add one more word, it's "American Government" values.

Riiiiiiiiight... as long you retain the ability to vote, you're contributing to the creation of American values. If you operate outside the system, you're no longer hold American values since you're not contributing to it. So as long you're entitled to the right to vote, you're still upholding American values.

Quote:

False, what is mine as I inherited cannot be undone or erased. Unless someone has a time machine to wipe out my first generation American family.

Do you know what "share" means?

Quote:

Yes I do, I share the "United States of America" History, but I don't necessarily share the history of the "United States Government"

The truth of revolution, brother, is Year Zero. You don't "share" it. You DIVERGE from it. You're no longer sharing with American history because the timeline has split.

Quote:

I respect the men and women that fights for our country, but not the men and women who fight for the Government. Big difference there.

They sure are not fighting for your country by going overseas in foreign territories.

**Jiro** · 05-24-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Right.....so not 1812 as one has said 4-5 times.

I never maintained Texas had a "legal right" to secede. Only that it didn't happen in 1812.

Of course they could decide to secede illegally. Question is, would the U.S. try to do anything about it.

I wonder how many supported the revolution before it started???

War of 1812 - the Hartford Convention. that was when New England wanted to secede from the Union. It is relevant to Texas-Arizona secession.

**TXgolfer** · 05-24-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What does treason have to do with the fact that Texas does not have the legal right to sucede, and succession is not a Constitutional right?

Uhhh...Constitutional rights are provided for in the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence. You claimed that sucession was a Constitutional right. So I will again ask...specifically which section of the Constitution provides for the right of sucession? Particularly after Texas signed away any right to sucede in the War of 1812. The 10th Amendment does not provide for sucession as a Constitutional right, either. Are you posting again without reading first?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You stated that it was a Constitutional right. That means it has to be provided for in the Constitution. Can't backpedal your way out of that one simply by saying "Show me where it forbids it." According to what you claim, it must specifically provide for it.

And you have already been shown where Texas signed away their right to sucede during the War of 1812.

State Sovereignty is an entirely different topic, and one that I doubt you understand any better than the topic of right to sucede.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Are you actually trying to award credibility to a ranting and raving militia man? Can you say "indoctrination"?

It is illegal based on the treaty signed in the war of 1812 by Texas. How many times does that have to be said?

Likewise, you stated that it was a Consitutional right. In order to be a Constitutional right, the Consitution has to specifically provide for it. So, back up your claim that it is a Constitutional right by citing the specific area of the constitution that provides for secession as a Constitutional right. Or simply do the right thing, and admit that you were wrong and don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I've supported it in several posts. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it hasn't been supported.

Do you think that asking the same question over and over is going to get you a different answer? The only person that has anything to support would be the one that claimed that secession is a Constitutional right. Quite obviously, you are beginning to understand that you cannot support that because it is false. So now you are trying to turn it around to save face. Best to just let it drop.

Texas signed away their right to secede in the war of 1812. I think that is the 4th or 5th time I have stated that. Do you understand it now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not impossible at all. Right there in history. And it has already been cited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Do you understand it now?

I sure hope he doesn't

**Jiro** · 05-24-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Welcome to the Government controlled education system whereas you're not allowed to think for yourself, but what the Government wants you to think.

Yiz

I'm at loss for words

yizuman · 05-24-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Riiiiiiiiight... as long you retain the ability to vote, you're contributing to the creation of American values. If you operate outside the system, you're no longer hold American values since you're not contributing to it. So as long you're entitled to the right to vote, you're still upholding American values.

Wrong, abortion wasn't done by the vote of Americans, it was in fact, made legal by force through the United States Supreme Court, read "Roe vs Wade".

In 1973, the majority was against abortion, but the US Supreme Court made abortion legal by one single woman and she has since then recanted and is now working against the very monster that she created. Her name is Sandra Cano and she is now Pro Life.

Quote:

Do you know what "share" means?

Yes it means I share my heritage with my children, not to the Government.

Quote:

The truth of revolution, brother, is Year Zero. You don't "share" it. You DIVERGE from it. You're no longer sharing with American history because the timeline has split.

What timeline? I do not diverge from my COUNTRY, but I do not stand with the so called "values of Government" that forces the healthcare bill (among other things) on us whereas 70% of the American Citizens is against it. They did not act on the interest or the will of the American people, but rather the opposite.

Quote:

They sure are not fighting for your country by going overseas in foreign territories.

I'm glad you agree on that one.

Yiz

05-24-2010, 11:31 AM	#218 (permalink)
souggy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 9,541	There's consequences for everything. If Texas unsuccessfully seceded, the Treaty of 1812 will be used against them. __________________ "It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don’t understand it." - Richard Freynman

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05-24-2010, 12:36 PM	#224 (permalink)
Royale Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: World's Second Coldest Capital City! Posts: 4,414	While I was having a hearty chicken breast salad, I read thru this thread. Know what? It reminds me of Quebec's failed attempts to secede from Canada.