Hillary for President! Vote? - Page 7

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:15 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredfam1

Leibling, now I am very curious. What are the attitudes in general, of doctors towards patients over where you are?
Here in the US doctors often treat patients, (no matter what
their economic status) like this, "I am the doctor, I have all
authority and nothing you say is important or relavant" My
natriopathic doctor is not like this. But many regular doctors
are. It has been one of the frustrating things with our system.
Here is an example.

No, the doctors would not say like that. They only do is recommend us to do... It's up to us as patient either we want to hear their advise or ask other doctor for second opinion. It's our responsible if we don't want to listen our doctor's advise/recommendation.

Quote:

I take care of my elderly mom. Since I have been doing this
she has had 4 surgeries. Because she has a mechanical heart
valve she is on a blood thinner called coumadin. When she has
had surgeries in the past they gave her another short term
blood thinner after the surgery at the same time as restarting
her coumadin. This was supposed to be a saftey prevention
because coumadin takes a long time to build up in the body.
I told them she was reacting differently, (she was bleeding
through early and hemmoraging before her blood levels of
coumadin reached safe levels) I showed them research but
no one would listen. (a common problem here) She almost
died after each surgery. On the fourth surgery, (she got knocked
down by our goat and broke her arm) they had finally decided
that I was correct. She sailed through the surgery no problems.

I am very sorry to hear about your mother. I am glad that you searched positive how to help your mother. Why can't you check with other doctor for second opinion? We often do that... if we feel unsure either our doctor are right or not... We searched and visit other doctor for second opinion. If their opinion are equal then I accept...

Quote:

Also with all the tax and fees and private ins taken out of your
check do you actually get to take any money home? Can your
two parent families afford to have one parent be a stay at home
with the children? Technically we shouldn't be able to afford
for me to stay home with a family of eight and less than $35,000
per year. (I do a lot of creative financing and bartering) But
is important to both my husband and I that one of us be home
to homeschool our brood. One thing I have noticed is that
it is difficult to get info about what really goes on in other
countries. Thanks

I work full time and my hubby work part time (I work from 7.30 am to 4.00 pm and my hubby work from 4.30 pm to 10.00 pm) The reason we use different time because of be there for our boys.

Yes, obligation taxes and social insurances are being removed from our monthly wage automatic.

We receive EUR 154 per child a month from Government, no matter either I have a job or not. I have 2 boys which mean is I receive total 308 EUR per month until my boys get job with their income limited (their monthly income should be under 800 EUR per month... I will lost child allowance if my boys's month earn over 800 EUR... Child allowance remains until my boys finish with their univerisity or to age 25.

You have 8 person in household? How many children do you have? Do you have child allowance in America?

We need to go work to keep our house survive and support our family life. It's impossible to keep our house survive if one of us are out of work.

I thought Americans work to pay taxes to federal government, don't they?

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredfam1

I just read the above article which from the link you provide and there
is conflicting info. If you read the article I posted, It says that Brittan
ranks LAST in providing health care and that the waiting lines are
horrible. Yet the article you posted (and they were both current)
says Brittan ranks first. Both can not be true. In reading your
artical more carfully it appears that the info they got was not
from statistics but from interviews of doctors in the various
countries. I would doubt the accuracy of such a method of
determining health care quality.

You can ask Dreama... She is British and still live in England.

I born and raise in England and live in Germany at over 22 years ago. I know British health system... It's definitely sucker but I heard that UK health system goes improve time to time than before. I don't know either it's true or not. Some friends who live in England said positive things and some not.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

So it's not free.

Exactly

We work to pay social insurances (healthcare, nursing care, pension and unemployment) and taxes every month under my hubby's health insurance at Bosch company as "family insurance".

All what my family & I do is carry our health insurance card to show doctors and hospital etc then the treatment, therapies, surgery etc for goes direct to our health insurance automatic. I will get free medical care if I am out of work.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's why the plan Hillary supports is not good. It takes my tax dollars to support insurance for people who can afford to get it for themselves and their own families. Bush's plan supports all the poor children who need medical insurance.

Why should my tax dollars pay for medical insurance for people who can afford their own? Then I won't have enough money for my own medical needs.

how could the people can afford to get themselves when they are out of work? how could the people can afford to get expensive insurance themselves when they get low wage?

That's why I am for Hillary's support plan because everyone (yes, I mean everyone) should pay health insurance if they are work and support the others who are out of work or living on pension money. Its about support each other.

I do not support to help just children but everyone because they need our medical help badly to survive.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

No medical care is "free"; someone is paying the bill.

I would like to correct you about this.

We work to pay health insurance. The bill goes to health insurance directly, not us, no matter either I am work or out of work.

Reba · 11-13-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

...I will get free medical care if I am out of work.

Even that is not really "free"; someone still pays for it.

Reba · 11-13-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I would like to correct you about this.

We work to pay health insurance. The bill goes to health insurance directly, not us, no matter either I am work or out of work.

You and other members pay into the health insurance. Therefor, your medical care is not "free".

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

You said it's not free, there's other system for universal health center is use funds that's under government like in Canada, UK and other countries that which is offers free health center, that means government are paid for that since patients are nothing to pay bills (exception of some portion), it's not private health center then if it's so then would be difference.

I used to work in England before married and live in Germany.

Yes I work to pay insurance when I was in England.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

You and other members pay into the health insurance. Therefor, your medical care is not "free".

I already explained in my previous posts... So? I really have no problem with that because I prefer to have health insurance to pay everything than without insurance then I have to pay $300 per emergency...

Did you know how much head surgery cost, my son had at 2 years ago? I am realllllyyyyyy gllllaaaaddddd that I have health insurance for our family safety....

Reba · 11-13-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

how could the people can afford to get themselves when they are out of work? how could the people can afford to get expensive insurance themselves when they get low wage?

The really poor people can get Medicaid.

Quote:

That's why I am for Hillary's support plan because everyone (yes, I mean everyone) should pay health insurance if they are work and support the others who are out of work or living on pension money. Its about support each other.

We already do that. My taxes pay for Medicaid and Medicare for other people.

Who will pay for the additional medical services that Hillary proposes? If my taxes increase to pay for her programs, then I will have less money to pay for my own medical needs.

Reba · 11-13-2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I already explained in my previous posts... So? I really have no problem with that because I prefer to have health insurance to pay everything than without insurance then I have to pay $300 per emergency...

Health insurance pays for everything with your money. You (or other people) actually pay for it without realizing it. Nothing is free (except maybe for thieves, heh, heh).

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Even that is not really "free"; someone still pays for it.

So? Again, I am reallllyyyyyy gllllaaaadddddddd.... without hassle and stress

Did you heard the movie "John Q"? Can you image to end like him when you were in his shoe?

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Health insurance pays for everything with your money. You (or other people) actually pay for it without realizing it. Nothing is free (except maybe for thieves, heh, heh).

I think you don't get it...

Example:

I pay $100 for health insurance per month... It doesn't mean that they cover $100 for my son's head surgery that's because I pay $100 to health insurance?

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The really poor people can get Medicaid.

We already do that. My taxes pay for Medicaid and Medicare for other people.

Who will pay for the additional medical services that Hillary proposes? If my taxes increase to pay for her programs, then I will have less money to pay for my own medical needs.

Why million people don't have insurance when they are on work? Why can't they get Medicaid then?

Reba · 11-13-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

So? Again, I am reallllyyyyyy gllllaaaadddddddd.... without hassle and stress

Did you heard the movie "John Q"? Can you image to end like him when you were in his shoe?

Hello, that was a fictional movie, not a true story.

I can't give details (for privacy reasons) but let me tell you that critically ill poor children (of all races) do get taken care of, including transplants. It's not easy but it can be done.

And the staff do not treat them like "charity cases". I've seen it.

PowerON · 11-13-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I think you don't get it...

Example:

I pay $100 for health insurance per month... It doesn't mean that they cover $100 for my son's head surgery that's because I pay $100 to health insurance?

you don't get it. more tax, govt will take your money to pay to someone for med in need.

Canada don't make much money as they decide go to shop here in US which is much cheap than in Canada to save their ass.

Foxrac · 11-13-2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I would like to correct you about this.

We work to pay health insurance. The bill goes to health insurance directly, not us, no matter either I am work or out of work.

It sounds like health tax or medical tax (paid from payroll), sometime, you made confused me after mention on health insurance.

In USA, we do have medicare from payroll, that is part of tax from SS.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 11:55 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

It sounds like health tax or medical tax (paid from payroll), sometime, you made confused me after mention on health insurance.

No, our system are different.

Check my thread. It explains
http://www.alldeaf.com/general-chat/...ies-world.html

I work to pay social insurances (health, nursing care, pension and unemployment) AND taxes (Gross tax, solidarity tax and Church tax) My Employer and I as employee or worker pay social insurances and taxes 50%-50%.

I used to work in England and paid health insurance, pension insurance and gross tax. It goes the same with Canada and other European countries as well.

Quote:

In USA, we do have medicare from payroll, that is part of tax from SS.

Yes, I know you work to pay tax for medicare to help poor people but you don´t have medicare yourself that´s because you are work... Right? I get my medical care because I work to pay insurances.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

you don't get it. more tax, govt will take your money to pay to someone for med in need.

Canada don't make much money as they decide go to shop here in US which is much cheap than in Canada to save their ass.

You don´t get it either.

I explained Reba in my previous post... That's why I am for Hillary's support plan because everyone (yes, I mean everyone) should pay health insurance if they are work and support the others who are out of work or living on pension money. Its about support each other. I really have no problem for that.

I rather to help people with my money because their health come first before war issues.

I don´t beleive that Canadians went to USA for medical care since they have everything what they need in their country.

Foxrac · 11-13-2007, 12:07 PM

[QUOTE=Liebling:-)));869352]

Quote:

No, our system are different.

Check my thread. It explains
http://www.alldeaf.com/general-chat/...ies-world.html

I work to pay social insurances (health, nursing care, pension and unemployment) AND taxes (Gross tax, solidarity tax and Church tax) My Employer and I as employee or worker pay social insurances and taxes 50%-50%.

I used to work in England and paid health insurance, pension insurance and gross tax. It goes the same with Canada and other European countries as well.

Yes, I know you work to pay tax for medicare to help poor people but you don´t have medicare yourself that´s because you are work... Right? I get my medical care because I work to pay insurances.

I only have Medicaid for medical issue reason, that all but different from Medicare.

Liebling:-))) · 11-13-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Hello, that was a fictional movie, not a true story.

Yes I know but it could be happened one of you some day if you don´t have health insurance.

I remember one former ADer who told us the story in other forum at several years ago that she and her hubby are worker and don´t have health insurance until the happend to her hubby. Her hubby fall down from the ladder and his arm or leg fractured and surgery... It cost them $10,000. Those situation cost their hassle and stress... after that bad experience, they decided to insure healthcare... They make sure that it won´t happen again. They made monthly payment to doctor until the debt is end...

fredfam1 · 11-13-2007, 12:49 PM

[QUOTE=Liebling:-)));869300]

Quote:

You have 8 person in household? How many children do you have? Do you have child allowance in America?

I thought Americans work to pay taxes to federal government, don't they?[/COLOR]

I have 4 children left at home. The others have left and are adults
on their own. One college student that is home on weekends, my
husband, myself and my mother. My mother pays her own medical
from medicare and extra private insurance. We do not have an allowance
but something almost as good. At the end of each year you can take
a certain amount off of your taxes for each child. So I don't have to
pay as much in taxes with all my little ones. (something Hillary would
like to take away)

The federal government takes our taxes, and the state government
takes our taxes. These are listed on our checks, every thing the
government takes out. If you look at all that is taken out you begin
to get suspicious because you think "where is all that money going?"
and we should have free health care and spas with all that money
coming out of pay checks."

I would much rather make payments to end a debt and therefor
only have to pay when is necessary than to have the govt take
more money when I am not using it. And like Reba says, if we
were to have any really huge debt, there are govt programs you
can file for that will pay your medical bills. Say one of my kids
had an accident and I owed a $10,000 medical bill. Then I would
apply for the Oregon Health Care plan. I didn't do it for $300
because I would rather make payments than cause another
taxpayer to have to help pay for my kids medical bills. As I said
there is already enough taken out of checks for taxes. If anything
it is the governments fault for using the money they already get
in unneccasary spending, like when Bill Clinton got that $700 hair
cut on the airplane. Does anyone else here remember that? I would
have cut his hair for $20 and saved the taxpayers some money. I
would have even slapped his hand if he tried to sneak a feel!

fredfam1 · 11-13-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

About antibiotic... I would recommend you to take herbal tea and some vitamin C to reduce your bad cold, flu etc. I don't use any medical but drink herbal tea and hot lemon. It work pretty good within 3 days... If it's more than 3 days then check with doctor.

Excellent advice. I would like to add, L-lysiene taken on an empty stomach
once per day is anti-viral and will shorten the duration of a cold. I talked to
an emergency room doctor here who was from Romania. She said that here
if she tells someone to drink herbal tea and hot lemon with ginger like she
does for a sore throat, that she could lose her liscense to practice medicine
over here!

Reba · 11-13-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yes I know but it could be happened one of you some day if you don´t have health insurance.

I remember one former ADer who told us the story in other forum at several years ago that she and her hubby are worker and don´t have health insurance until the happend to her hubby. Her hubby fall down from the ladder and his arm or leg fractured and surgery... It cost them $10,000. Those situation cost their hassle and stress... after that bad experience, they decided to insure healthcare... They make sure that it won´t happen again. They made monthly payment to doctor until the debt is end...

Were they refused medical care? No.

Did she have to take a gun to force the doctor to help her hubby? No.

An unexpected accident is always a "hassle and stress". But he did get medical care, right?

That situation isn't even close to the movie story.

Reba · 11-13-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

...I work to pay social insurances (health, nursing care, pension and unemployment) AND taxes (Gross tax, solidarity tax and Church tax) My Employer and I as employee or worker pay social insurances and taxes 50%-50%.

Is your "social insurance" voluntary or mandatory? That is, can you refuse to participate in that insurance? Do you have a choice of which insurance company that you use?

Quote:

Yes, I know you work to pay tax for medicare to help poor people but you don´t have medicare yourself that´s because you are work... Right? I get my medical care because I work to pay insurances.

Medicare is for older retired people. Retired working people are eligible for Medicare whether or not they are "poor".

Medicaid is for disabled and/or poor people regardless of age.

tinkskater · 11-13-2007, 02:48 PM

I totally dont support her...sorry but her husband has been doing all the work it seems.... also i heard on the radio...that she went to a resturant && didnt leave a tip to the waitress... thats totally not cool....I'm sorry but my votes going somewhere else if i could actually vote...i'm only 16 so i cant yet vote...

Reba · 11-13-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

...I don´t beleive that Canadians went to USA for medical care since they have everything what they need in their country.

Please read this:

Quote:

Canada's Expectant Moms Heading to U.S. to Deliver

Wednesday, October 10, 2007
By Sara Bonisteel

Mothers in British Columbia are having a baby boom, but it's the United States that has to deliver, and that has some proud Canadians blasting their highly touted government healthcare system.

"I'm a born-bred Canadian, as well as my daughter and son, and I'm ashamed," Jill Irvine told FOX News. Irvine's daughter, Carri Ash, is one of at least 40 mothers or their babies who've been airlifted from British Columbia to the U.S. this year because Canadian hospitals didn't have room for the preemies in their neonatal units.

"It's a big number and bigger than the previous capacity of the system to deal with it," said Adrian Dix, a British Columbia legislator, told FOXNews.com. "So when that happens, you can't have a waiting list for a mother having the baby. She just has the baby."

The mothers have been flown to hospitals in Seattle, Everett, Wash., and Spokane, Wash., to receive treatment, as well as hospitals in the neighboring province of Alberta, Dix said. Three mothers were airlifted in the first weekend of October alone, including Carri Ash.

"I just want to go home and see my kids," she said from her Seattle hospital bed. "I think it's stupid I have to be here."

Canada's socialized health care system, hailed as a model by Michael Moore in his documentary, "Sicko," is hurting, government officials admit, citing not enough money for more equipment and staff to handle high risk births.

Sarah Plank, a spokeswoman for the British Columbia Ministry of Health, said a spike in high risk and premature births coupled with the lack of trained nurses prompted the surge in mothers heading across the border for better care.

"The number of transfers in previous years has been quite low," Plank told FOXNews.com. "Before this recent spike we went for more than a year with no transfers to the U.S., so this is something that is happening in other provinces as well."

Critics say these border crossings highlight the dangers of a government-run health care system.

"The Canadian healthcare system has used the United States as a safety net for years," said Michael Turner of the Cato Institute. "In fact, overall about one out of every seven Canadian physicians sends someone to the United States every year for treatment."

Neonatal intensive care units in Alberta and Ontario have also been stretched to capacity, she said.

The cost of these airlifts and treatments, paid to U.S. hospitals by the province under Canada's universal health care system, runs upwards of $1,000 a child.

"We clearly want to see more capacity built in the Canadian system because it’s also expensive for taxpayers here to send people out of the country," Dix said.

The surge could be due to women giving birth later in life, and passport restrictions and family separation adds to the stress.

"I think it’s reasonable to think that this is a trend that would continue and we have to prepare for it and increase the number of beds to deal with perhaps the new reality of the number of premature babies and newborns needing a higher level of care in Canada," Dix said.

British Columbia has added more neonatal beds and increased funding for specialized nurse training, Plank said.

"There is an identified need for some additional capacity just due to population growth and that sort of thing and that is actively being implemented," she said.

FOXNews.com - Canada's Expectant Moms Heading to U.S. to Deliver - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Reba · 11-13-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

...I don´t beleive that Canadians went to USA for medical care since they have everything what they need in their country.

This is a 90-page report:

Hospital Waiting Lists In Canada

http://downloads.heartland.org/20320.pdf

Here's one section:

Quote:

...The result has been lengthy waiting lists, often as long
as a year or more, followed by public outcry, which in
turn has prompted short-term funding. Across Canada,
many governments have had to provide additional
funding for heart surgery in their provinces. In the
past, American hospitals have also provided a convenient
short-term safety valve for burgeoning waiting
lists for cardiac operations. The government of British
Columbia contracted Washington State hospitals to
perform some 200 operations in 1989 following public
dismay over the 6-month waiting list for cardiac bypass
surgery in the province.
Wealthy individuals, furthermore, may avoid waiting
by having heart surgery performed in the United
States. A California heart-surgery centre has even
advertised its services in a Vancouver newspaper.
Throughout Canada in 2006, an average of 2.3 percent
of cardiac patients inquired about receiving treatment
in another province, while 1.8 percent of patients
asked about treatment in another country. From these
inquiries, 0.7 percent of all patients received treatment
in another province and 0.6 percent received treatment
in another country (Fraser Institute, national hospital
waiting list survey, 2006).
The Fraser Institute / Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada (16th edition) / 23

Reba · 11-13-2007, 04:26 PM

Interesting:

Quote:

The victims of “universal” healthcare

The waiting time for treatment in Canada varies from 14 to 30 weeks. Waiting lists for diagnostic procedures range from two to 24 weeks. Some patients die while waiting for treatment. To stop sick people from circumventing the “free” system, the government of British Columbia enacted Bill 82 in 2003, which makes it illegal to pay for private surgery. Patients waiting for critical procedures are now forced to seek procedures in the U.S. and doctors are abandoning Canada in droves. Cleveland, Ohio is now Canada’s hip-replacement center. Ontario is turning nurses into doctors to replace some of the 10,000 doctors who left Canada in the 1990’s....

The One Minute Case Against Socialized Healthcare » The One Minute Case

PowerON · 11-13-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

You don´t get it either.

I explained Reba in my previous post... That's why I am for Hillary's support plan because everyone (yes, I mean everyone) should pay health insurance if they are work and support the others who are out of work or living on pension money. Its about support each other. I really have no problem for that.

I rather to help people with my money because their health come first before war issues.

I don´t beleive that Canadians went to USA for medical care since they have everything what they need in their country.

I'm saying to earn salary isn't much you made as govt took out from your payroll to use for medical. Geez.

More tax, more quick to get people see doctor
• no money for vacation (rat!)

Less tax, long listing to get people to see doctor
• holiday for vacation (hello Hawaii!)

None are win-win situation

11-13-2007, 02:48 PM	#206 (permalink)
tinkskater ~HOTTIE WITH A BODY~ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, Co Posts: 5 Blog Entries: 3	I totally dont support her...sorry but her husband has been doing all the work it seems.... also i heard on the radio...that she went to a resturant && didnt leave a tip to the waitress... thats totally not cool....I'm sorry but my votes going somewhere else if i could actually vote...i'm only 16 so i cant yet vote... __________________ GIRL ALL THE BAD GUYS WANT

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