Why can't deaf people respect deaf people's choice of sign language?

Jane B. said:
Let's get back to the first issue that the OP brought up. RESPECT! Why can't the users of the different forms (SEE, PSE, ASL) show respect to the users of the others and their right to use which ever they prefer?
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Lol. Respect? 6-10 people said ignore them. One militant here and his name starts with crazy. You're battling people who are trying to genuinely answer your question.

ANYWAY...

Thomas Gallaudet wanted to become an educator for the Deaf here in America but he was unable to figure out a good way to go about it as America failed miserably in this capacity so he decided to travel to Europe. He first went to England to the Braidwood institute (oral BTW) but they did not welcome him and were not open with their methods of teaching.

He then met Abbe Sicard who was considered the pioneer of sign language in schools (or formerly called manual communication) and was the main instructor at some school that I don't remember the name of (I'll give a like for whoever names it). At the time, Sicard was teaching two other notable figures... Laurent Clerc and Jean Massieu. They all came back here and effectively created the Deaf world as we have grown to know it. They founded the Hartford Asylum for the Education and Instruction of the Deaf and Dumb (now known as American School for the Deaf) then Gallaudet and the birth of ASL came from that.

Forgot to add that Sicard, Clerc, and Massieu are French. Hope this clarifies why ASL is what it is.
 
NitroHonda said:
Lol. Respect? 6-10 people said ignore them. One militant here and his name starts with crazy. You're battling people who are trying to genuinely answer your question.

ANYWAY...

Thomas Gallaudet wanted to become an educator for the Deaf here in America but he was unable to figure out a good way to go about it as America failed miserably in this capacity so he decided to travel to Europe. He first went to England to the Braidwood institute (oral BTW) but they did not welcome him and were not open with their methods of teaching.

He then met Abbe Sicard who was considered the pioneer of sign language in schools (or formerly called manual communication) and was the main instructor at some school that I don't remember the name of (I'll give a like for whoever names it). At the time, Sicard was teaching two other notable figures... Laurent Clerc and Jean Massieu. They all came back here and effectively created the Deaf world as we have grown to know it. They founded the Hartford Asylum for the Education and Instruction of the Deaf and Dumb (now known as American School for the Deaf) then Gallaudet and the birth of ASL came from that.

Forgot to add that Sicard, Clerc, and Massieu are French. Hope this clarifies why ASL is what it is.
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Institution Nationale des Sourds-Muets à Paris
 
pixiestix said:
Please keep in mind that SEE was my first language and ASL was never used in schools growing up.

I do sign PSE, too. I just do not understand full blown ASL at all. I just want people to respect me and my signing as I respect their ASL signing even though I don't understand it if they speak full blown ASL.
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Hello you have grow up at parents? you situation family I am curious I am question you, family teach you SEE or ASL , I believe hard you family.. you. lots of people have cultures respect to ASL/SEE choice want to happy of course they know learn how education. it is not easy. limit is sign language access communication ASL, advise to mentor support to deaf interpreter easy supportive clear to sign language. troubles communication to hard to family parents, frustrated I can do alots of ASL I am support to ASL/SEE I do mind doesn't matter I can help assistant. I clear interesting to ASL clear. It is very hard SEE is difficult! I have lots of adjust to SEE instead better improve fast to ASL :) cheer effort to learn it successfully love ASL awesome is very happy I learn myself ASL. whom is support mentor deaf and school many times kindly people supportive etc surprised wonderful ASL impressive!
 
Grummer said:
what? no, you really need to go and study linguistics see what they say.
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I studied linquistics. Nobody plans out languages and their rules.

Maybe you are not understanding what I am saying.
 
Jane B. said:
Let's get back to the first issue that the OP brought up. RESPECT! Why can't the users of the different forms (SEE, PSE, ASL) show respect to the users of the others and their right to use which ever they prefer?
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It is not about respect. It is about not understanding SEE. When someone signs in SEE, my brain goes into ASL mode and I get confused by what the person is saying and I end up having to work hard to keep my mind in English mode.
 
NitroHonda said:
Lol. Respect? 6-10 people said ignore them. One militant here and his name starts with crazy. You're battling people who are trying to genuinely answer your question.

ANYWAY...

Thomas Gallaudet wanted to become an educator for the Deaf here in America but he was unable to figure out a good way to go about it as America failed miserably in this capacity so he decided to travel to Europe. He first went to England to the Braidwood institute (oral BTW) but they did not welcome him and were not open with their methods of teaching.

He then met Abbe Sicard who was considered the pioneer of sign language in schools (or formerly called manual communication) and was the main instructor at some school that I don't remember the name of (I'll give a like for whoever names it). At the time, Sicard was teaching two other notable figures... Laurent Clerc and Jean Massieu. They all came back here and effectively created the Deaf world as we have grown to know it. They founded the Hartford Asylum for the Education and Instruction of the Deaf and Dumb (now known as American School for the Deaf) then Gallaudet and the birth of ASL came from that.

Forgot to add that Sicard, Clerc, and Massieu are French. Hope this clarifies why ASL is what it is.
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Interestingly enough, the French signing system was initialized in the same way SEE is initialized often times.
 
Wirelessly posted

I Sign PSE and ASL. I do understand ASL when someone else does it, but for me to do it. My brain runs in English, since it is my first language. I have to stop and change modes so it ends up being more PSE than ASL. Majority of my ASL friends do not mind my signing.
 
I guess that is why I don't have many friends in Deaf circle. I am more of a PSE user than ASL. Yeah, it sucks that deaf world is divided like that. Damn!!
 
Wirelessly posted

Majority of Deaf people do not care how you sign. It is a matter of communication and "if" they understand you. You would not walk up to a spanish speaking person speaking french.
 
shel90 said:
People have attempted to change ASL to follow English structure (SEE) and it still doesnt work for the majority of deaf children.

I totally understand what Jane said because she has brought up that question and complained about how ASL doesnt follow English before in other threads.
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This is a common misconception.

SEE was never created to take away from, or to change ASL.

It was created to better facilitate the learning of the English language that, in years past was not as successful as one would like. It was created in an effort to provide visual clues to support the spoken language surrounding them. It was created with one goal- to help individuals who are DHH attain a mastery of English.

There have been many people who have benefitted from SEE, some in this forum (and including my son). It has a purpose. There are probably countless others on this forum who are hesitant to admit they use/used SEE because of this animosity towards it. Posters have even stated as much.

In no way was it created to "change ASL"....
 
dereksbicycles said:
I guess that is why I don't have many friends in Deaf circle. I am more of a PSE user than ASL. Yeah, it sucks that deaf world is divided like that. Damn!!
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It's like the turbo/no-turbo divide.

It can be overcome but it ain't always easy.
 
CSign said:
This is a common misconception.

SEE was never created to take away from, or to change ASL.

It was created to better facilitate the learning of the English language that, in years past was not as successful as one would like. It was created in an effort to provide visual clues to support the spoken language surrounding them. It was created with one goal- to help individuals who are DHH attain a mastery of English.

There have been many people who have benefitted from SEE, some in this forum (and including my son). It has a purpose. There are probably countless others on this forum who are hesitant to admit they use/used SEE because of this animosity towards it. Posters have even stated as much.

In no way was it created to "change ASL"....
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Csign, quoting Babyblue who posted just above you.....'You wouldn't go up to a Spanish person speaking to them in French'. Using SEE with ASL/Auslan/BSL/NZSL users etc., is like speaking English to someone in Cambodia or North Korea. PSE is more transitional to pure sign language as the only difference is incorrect grammatical structure. It is like a non-native learning to speak English. You can understand them, but their grammar is not perfect.

BTW, it is not about 'changing ASL' it's about proper communication and understanding what the other person is saying.
 
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pixiestix said:
Please keep in mind that SEE was my first language and ASL was never used in schools growing up.

I do sign PSE, too. I just do not understand full blown ASL at all. I just want people to respect me and my signing as I respect their ASL signing even though I don't understand it if they speak full blown ASL.
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i grew up see 100 percent...am now pse/asl and ive long shed alot of see signs over time as i grew up see until 3rd year in high school, you admitted you are already pse so its okay to find specific people who are more word for word in that style. i prefer to hang out with educated or wordy deaf people. the less sign they need to to convey the message is the ones i avoid.

my signing adapts and changes where i am at and who i am with though

no offense is meant to be given to asl but when i have to use more asl its for lower functioning clients in my work and ive not met a deaf person thats not pure asl any deaf can say theyre asl when theyre really pse ive said it over n over dont worry about it find other deaf like you and itll be good ive been made fun of when i got older using some see signs i just laughed with them its like making fun of ones accent to me thats all.
 
No one answered the idea that ASL is structured the way it is because the inventors of it followed French structure. I believe that is an incorrect assertion. Does the person who brought it up know French? Do you think French Sign Language is the same as spoken French? I have news for you, it isn't.

It is the way it is because it is a visual language.
 
It is a little different, I took 3 years of French and I could never get used to putting my adjectives after my nouns...example~ English- blue jeans, French jeans bleu.

I didn't bring it up so I can't answer that question.

For someone young learning a new language it would easy, that's when your brain is most adaptable and capable of learning new languages, you can take a hearing toddler and you could teach them English, Spanish and ASL all at the same time and they would pick it up easily. If you took that hearing toddlers English speaking parent and tried to do the same thing it would be immensely more difficult. So this is really just noted as someone late deafened or the parents of a deaf child learning ASL. personally am not nitpicking ASL or saying it should be changed, just noting that if it followed the same sentence structure as English it would be easier to learn, for us. You know wishing for fish with our ish wish dish.
 
I get that it would be easier for someone like yourself, or like me. I first started learning ASL at 18 years old, but first became deaf at 11. ASL is different because it is visual. I thought Reba explained it well earlier in this thread. It just would not work if it followed English grammar rules.
 
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