Who has the Salvation? Christianity

[The*Empress]

Who has the Salvation?

COLOR] [/i]Page 135 We can not live with sin people and we should not invite any sinners to our house for our purity.

We are all sinners.

 

[Askjo]

I disagree with Calvinism's teaching because its teaching is wrong. The interesting source concerning John MacArthur is that he believes the cross, not Jesus' blood, can save your soul. I disagree with John MacArthur concerning between the cross and Jesus' blood.

 

[Teresh]

My issue with Christianity has traditionally been that it believes that humans are helpless and dependent on God to get to Heaven... Calvinism makes it worse by saying that humans are completely powerless to change their fate and instead are supposed to sit on their hands and do nothing. It takes everything that spirituality/religion is and turns it inside out. You're no longer religious/spiritual because you want a better understanding of the world or because you want to learn new things, instead, you're anti-religion/anti-spirituality because your own religion is utterly empty inside.

Christians tend to be fearful people... Afraid of other people, places, things, the unknown and worst of all, themselves. This bothers me because they go out of their way to make diffucult the lives of we who are not afraid of our own shadows.

 

[Reba]

...Christians tend to be fearful people... Afraid of other people, places, things, the unknown and worst of all, themselves. This bothers me because they go out of their way to make diffucult the lives of we who are not afraid of our own shadows.

Interesting that you should say that.

I was a fearful person before I was saved.

After I was saved, I became confident in Jesus. The Lord gave me courage to face things that I normally would not do.

When our family was huddled in the hallway of our house during hurricane Hugo, we thought we might die. The walls of our house were flexing, we could hear crashing outside, and we knew that the huge trees around our house could kill us. I expected to die but I was not afraid. I knew that the three of us were saved for eternity, so we were "safe" in the Lord.

I know many other Christians who face various serious and life-threatening situations, and are not fearful; they are at peace.

Missionary families travel to unknown countries where they don't know the language or culture. They don't have much money, and they are meeting people who might be unfriendly or even threatening. I don't think you could call them "fearful" people.

The early Christians faced torture and death in the Coliseum; you can't call them fearful.

In the past, Christians in the Soviet Union were sent to Gulags. In the present, Christians in China and other countries still face persecution. Fearful?

 

[Teresh]

I know many other Christians who face various serious and life-threatening situations, and are not fearful; they are at peace.

There's only a handful of Christians out there who would not be terrified when at death's knell. I know a few, and I can say they're nothing like the rest of the group of so-called "Christians"

Missionary families travel to unknown countries where they don't know the language or culture. They don't have much money, and they are meeting people who might be unfriendly or even threatening. I don't think you could call them "fearful" people. The early Christians faced torture and death in the Coliseum; you can't call them fearful.

Being willing to die for something makes you a martyr for it. The SS soldiers were willing to die for the Third Reich. ILF "soldiers" are willing to die for the cause. The KKK at one point were willing to die for their cause. (They're Christian too, by the way.) Put it a different way and saying Christians faced torture and death before doesn't seem like all that heroic.

In the past, Christians in the Soviet Union were sent to Gulags. In the present, Christians in China and other countries still face persecution. Fearful?

And the Christians persecute Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, other non-Christians and gay people. Also usually persecute liberals and people who believe in personal freedoms and separation of church and state. Are Christians usually afraid of their own shadows? You betcha!

 

[Reba]

I'm sorry that your experiences have been so negative.

There's only a handful of Christians out there who would not be terrified when at death's knell. I know a few, and I can say they're nothing like the rest of the group of so-called "Christians"

Hmmm...I know quite a few. I personally know some that are right now facing "death's knell" with grace and peace. They are not "terrified".

The KKK at one point were willing to die for their cause. (They're Christian too, by the way.)

The KKK that I know about are willing for other people to die; they are actually themselves very cowardly (hence, the hoods and doing their deeds in the darkness of night).

BTW, they are not Christians. Anyone can use the cross as their symbol, but that doesn't make them real Christians. I think it is obvious that their philosophy and practices are NOT Christian.

And the Christians persecute Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, other non-Christians and gay people. Also usually persecute liberals and people who believe in personal freedoms and separation of church and state.

Where and how is this happening? What "persecution"?

Are Christians usually afraid of their own shadows? You betcha!

That is so weird. The "Christians" that you describe are nothing like the ones that I know.

What makes you think that they are "afraid of their own shadows"?

 

[Teresh]

BTW, they are not Christians. Anyone can use the cross as their symbol, but that doesn't make them real Christians. I think it is obvious that their philosophy and practices are NOT Christian.

They claim to be Christians. The fact that you disavow that claim does not make them wrong, it merely indicates your opinion on the subject. The ILF claims to be Muslim, but find me an American who would go as far as saying that they're not even though they're nothing like most other Muslims.

Your belief that Christian terrorist organisations don't or can't exist is just a fallacy on your part, it shows your naivete. Any religion's doctrine can be perverted into something terrible, Christianity is no exception to that. I see it everyday from people like you who use the Bible as the basis for their hate and bigotted views. Slavery in the US was originally an economic thing, and yet it became eventually a cultural, and even religious thing, with ministers finding support for slavery in the Bible and using it as "god given evidence" that slavery and the racism that went with it were acceptable.

Where and how is this happening? What "persecution"?

James Dobson? Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Pope Benedict XVI? Listen to any of these people for more than five minutes and a casual observer would believe them full of hate.

That is so weird. The "Christians" that you describe are nothing like the ones that I know.

Maybe they are and you simply don't realize it.

What makes you think that they are "afraid of their own shadows"?

What do they (the televangelists above) do besides bilk their followers for cash to buy fancy expensive cars and go on TV and say the US should assassinate foreign leaders? Oh, right, they go on the 700 Club and condemn the people they don't like.

 

[Crazymanw00t]

I disagree with Calvinism's teaching because its teaching is wrong. The interesting source concerning John MacArthur is that he believes the cross, not Jesus' blood, can save your soul. I disagree with John MacArthur concerning between the cross and Jesus' blood.

I need to speak this out.
You are wrong with this one.

John MacArthur and the Calvinist people believes in Jesus Christ through his blood and the cross.

Please review and do not put your mind on the lock with the "Calvinism is wrong!"

By the way, WOW it has been long time that I left this website.

It will be my last message for good. It is better if I don't come back for the alldeaf.com cuz I seems causes many drama and all those insane comments on this forum.

Takecare people on alldeaf.com and I prays for the choosen people that they will recieves the light from Jesus Christ.

 

[Reba]

They claim to be Christians.

Exactly. They claim to be Christians. That doesn't mean that they are Christians. I can claim to be a Martian but that doesn't make it so.

Your belief that Christian terrorist organisations don't or can't exist is just a fallacy on your part, it shows your naivete.

Real Christians who know and believe the Bible and strive to become Christ-like do not join terrorist organizations or commit terrorist acts.

I see it everyday from people like you who use the Bible as the basis for their hate and bigotted views.

Please tell me who it is you think that I hate and am bigotted against.

James Dobson? Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Pope Benedict XVI? Listen to any of these people for more than five minutes and a casual observer would believe them full of hate.

I don't listen to any of the above on a regular basis, other than what I have seen or heard recently on the news, so you will have to tell me about their "hateful" statements. James Dobson tends to be too ecumenical and liberal for me but I don't recall hearing him say anything hateful. I know that Falwell and Robertson make controversial political statements. I don't know much about Benedict XVI; I don't follow Catholic news. I haven't heard anything on the news about him making "hateful" statements.

Maybe they are and you simply don't realize it.

It is really sad that you have such a negative outlook.

What do they (the televangelists above) do besides bilk their followers for cash to buy fancy expensive cars and go on TV and say the US should assassinate foreign leaders? Oh, right, they go on the 700 Club and condemn the people they don't like.

I don't watch televangelists; in fact, I blocked those cable channels on my TV.

 

[deafdyke]

with ministers finding support for slavery in the Bible and using it as "god given evidence" that slavery and the racism that went with it were acceptable.

Correct. I forget the exact verse, but it's something about blacks being condemed to hew wood and draw water b/c of the sins of one of the sons of Noah.

 

[Teresh]

Exactly. They claim to be Christians. That doesn't mean that they are Christians. I can claim to be a Martian but that doesn't make it so.

I want to see your spaceship, omg!

Real Christians who know and believe the Bible and strive to become Christ-like do not join terrorist organizations or commit terrorist acts.

Would you agree, then, that real Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, Shintoists, Taoists, Hindus, Jews et al would not join terrorist organisations? None of those religions have scripture which condones terrorist acts. This is a question rather than an accusation--Answer it however you wish (or don't).

Please tell me who it is you think that I hate and am bigotted against.

Gay people? The above question would clarify any religious biases you may have rather neatly.

I don't listen to any of the above on a regular basis, other than what I have seen or heard recently on the news, so you will have to tell me about their "hateful" statements. James Dobson tends to be too ecumenical and liberal for me but I don't recall hearing him say anything hateful. I know that Falwell and Robertson make controversial political statements. I don't know much about Benedict XVI; I don't follow Catholic news. I haven't heard anything on the news about him making "hateful" statements.

"For more than 40 years, the homosexual activist movement has sought to implement a master plan that has had as its centerpiece the utter destruction of the family. ...Those goals include universal acceptance of the gay lifestyle, discrediting of Scriptures that condemn homosexuality, muzzling of the clergy and Christian media, granting of special privileges and rights in the law, overturning laws prohibiting pedophilia, indoctrinating children and future generations through public education, and securing all the legal benefits of marriage for any two or more people who claim to have homosexual tendencies." -- James Dobson

Liberal? Doubt it. Hateful? Definately.

It is really sad that you have such a negative outlook.

I don't have a negative outlook. I just dislike Christianity. There's a big difference between the two.

I don't watch televangelists; in fact, I blocked those cable channels on my TV.

Good for you. Join the club.

 

[Reba]

I want to see your spaceship, omg!

Beaming Teresh up!

Would you agree, then, that real Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, Shintoists, Taoists, Hindus, Jews et al would not join terrorist organisations? None of those religions have scripture which condones terrorist acts. This is a question rather than an accusation--Answer it however you wish (or don't).

I don't know all the doctrines of all the religions so I can't say for sure if some of them promote terrorism. I do know that some Muslim religious and political leaders themselves stated that their religion supports wiping out Jews and infidels (including Christians). Are they right or wrong?

Gay people? The above question would clarify any religious biases you may have rather neatly.

When have I stated that I hated gay people? Never. I have never endorsed violence or insults or mocking or screaming against gay people.

"For more than 40 years, the homosexual activist movement has sought to implement a master plan that has had as its centerpiece the utter destruction of the family. ...Those goals include universal acceptance of the gay lifestyle, discrediting of Scriptures that condemn homosexuality, muzzling of the clergy and Christian media, granting of special privileges and rights in the law, overturning laws prohibiting pedophilia, indoctrinating children and future generations through public education, and securing all the legal benefits of marriage for any two or more people who claim to have homosexual tendencies." -- James Dobson

I don't disagree with that statement.

Liberal? Doubt it. Hateful? Definately.

I didn't say that he was liberal about everything. He is right about many things. He just accepts more liberal practices than I do.

I haven't seen any "hateful" quotes from him yet, so I will reserve my judgment on that.

I don't have a negative outlook. I just dislike Christianity. There's a big difference between the two.

So you are biased against Christianity, and you stereotype Christians, and that is acceptable? I see. It is OK for people to be against Christians but not any other groups.

 

[deafdyke]

Wait, Reba, you think DOBSON is too liberal? This is a guy who advocates BEATING your child! Oh, and Reba....... the gay movement as a whole does NOT condone pedophillia! THAT is DISGUSTING!

 

[Teresh]

I don't know all the doctrines of all the religions so I can't say for sure if some of them promote terrorism. I do know that some Muslim religious and political leaders themselves stated that their religion supports wiping out Jews and infidels (including Christians). Are they right or wrong?

Well, if you appeal to scripture, any priests, rabbis, imams, monks, et al who would condone or support terrorist actions are wrong. The danger of fundamentalism, and this also applies to Christianity, is that the religious leaders believe that they know better than other followers with regard to how to interpret scripture. The Southern Baptist Convention made this view law for its convention a few years ago.

When have I stated that I hated gay people? Never. I have never endorsed violence or insults or mocking or screaming against gay people.

Ah, but if you don't disagree with hatred of gay people, in line with your affirmation of accord with Dr. Dobson, then logic would dictate that you hate gay people, whether you are willing to admit that or not.

I don't disagree with that statement.

We do not use profanity or double negatives in True Directions!

I haven't seen any "hateful" quotes from him yet, so I will reserve my judgment on that.

And this is why you are a bigot--You do not even acknowledge that what you believe is hateful.

So you are biased against Christianity, and you stereotype Christians, and that is acceptable? I see. It is OK for people to be against Christians but not any other groups.

I'm not biased against Christianity in general. Just those who use it as means to promote their agenda.

 

[Reba]

Wait, Reba, you think DOBSON is too liberal? This is a guy who advocates BEATING your child! Oh, and Reba....... the gay movement as a whole does NOT condone pedophillia! THAT is DISGUSTING!

Dobson does NOT advocate "beating" children.

"The gay movement" refers to the social/political movement; it does NOT mean ALL gay people.

 

[Reba]

...any priests, rabbis, imams, monks, et al who would condone or support terrorist actions are wrong.

Agreed.

The Southern Baptist Convention made this view law for its convention a few years ago.

I'm not a member of the Convention, and not "under" their "laws".

Ah, but if you don't disagree with hatred of gay people, in line with your affirmation of accord with Dr. Dobson, then logic would dictate that you hate gay people, whether you are willing to admit that or not.

Dobson didn't say that he hates gay people. I don't hate gay people. He and others (including me) are against the social/political movement of liberal gay people. It might surprise you to know that not all "gay" people support the movement's agenda either.

If you could speak to the gay people that I know, they would be shocked at your assesment that I "hate" gay people.

We do not use profanity or double negatives in True Directions!

What are you talking about?

And this is why you are a bigot--You do not even acknowledge that what you believe is hateful.

I admit that I hate Satan and sin.

Which one of my beliefs do you think is "hateful" against individuals?

 

[pek1]

You are right. It is most important to read, and re-read, the Scriptures.

And, Reba, if I may add to what you said...

When your pastor opens his/her Bible, open yours and read along. S/He may take something out of context or say the passage incorrectly. If the pastor says, "You don't have to open your Bibles..." ahem, open it anyway and read what is said. NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER, NEVER take tha pastor's word for anything when it comes to Scripture.

 

[Reba]

And, Reba, if I may add to what you said...

When your pastor opens his/her Bible, open yours and read along.

I'm already ahead of you. I absolutely do that during every service and class. :P Also, our Pastor always says, "turn to..."--he expects us to follow along in the Bible passages.

You should see all the notes, circles, underlines, arrows, etc., written in my Bible! I also copy down the outlines and references on note paper so I can check them out later.

 

[Teresh]

Dobson didn't say that he hates gay people.

hate (v. tr.)
1. a. To feel hostility or animosity toward.
b. To detest.
2. To feel dislike or distaste for

The notion that gay people are inherently sinful and that they should be "cured" of their homosexuality would qualify as hate under that definition. Belief that someone or something's existence is inherently wrong would constitute "hostility".

I don't hate gay people. He and others (including me) are against the social/political movement of liberal gay people. It might surprise you to know that not all "gay" people support the movement's agenda either.

No, not all gay people are for same-sex marriage, but you'd have difficulty finding a gay person who doesn't think discrimination against gay people in employment, housing and credit is wrong.

What are you talking about?

It's a quote from the movie But I'm a Cheerleader said by the head of the ex-gay camp True Directions in the film.

Dobson does NOT advocate "beating" children.

"The gay movement" refers to the social/political movement; it does NOT mean ALL gay people.

"Some strong-willed children absolutely demand to be spanked, and their wishes should be granted. . . [T]wo or three stinging strokes on the legs or buttocks with a switch are usually sufficient to emphasize the point, 'You must obey me.'"

 

[Reba]

hate (v. tr.)
1. a. To feel hostility or animosity toward.
b. To detest.
2. To feel dislike or distaste for

The notion that gay people are inherently sinful and that they should be "cured" of their homosexuality would qualify as hate under that definition. Belief that someone or something's existence is inherently wrong would constitute "hostility".

I don't "feel hostility or animosity toward, or detest, or feel a dislike or distaste" for gay people.

Yes, I believe that homosexual sex is sinful. I believe many other things that people think, say, and do are also sinful. Every one sins. If I followed your reasoning, hating sin would mean hating every one (including myself). That is not what's happening.

I don't believe that homosexuality can be "cured" because it is not a "sickness." No sin can be "cured" because sin is not a "disease" in the medical or psychological sense. Jesus can remove the penalty and stronghold of sin from a repentant sinner. Thru the indwelling and filling of the Holy Spirit, and support from the Christian community, the temptation can be resisted, and the sin can be overcome. It is not easy but also it is not impossible.

It's a quote from the movie But I'm a Cheerleader said by the head of the ex-gay camp True Directions in the film.

Thank you. I was not familiar with that movie.

"Some strong-willed children absolutely demand to be spanked, and their wishes should be granted. . . [T]wo or three stinging strokes on the legs or buttocks with a switch are usually sufficient to emphasize the point, 'You must obey me.'"

That is not "beating" children.