Whats so wrong with CI????

Lianca said:
When I was working as a substitute teacher assistant for mainstream students. I was sending to school but they were on the field trips, so they sent me to another school. Turn out the Pre-K students have CI, all of them. It turn me off and felt so digusted but was very patient till 3pm to get out of there. I saw one boy have the scar on his head and I looked at the teacher. The teacher told me that they had to repaired it and now it fixed.. I smiled and nodded then turn around and felt so sick but act cool. I never went back there to work with the Pre-K CI students again.
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One problem with your post, you failed to tell us how the Pre-K CI students were doing in their classes.

That is the important part, it's even more important than the scar on a child's head. At least, it is to me.

We have to resist being superficial by not resorting to stereotypes and looks.

All I'm asking for is to have you tell us how the students are doing in the classes. Can you tell us that?
 
Banjo said:
One problem with your post, you failed to tell us how the Pre-K CI students were doing in their classes.

That is the important part, it's even more important than the scar on a child's head. At least, it is to me.

We have to resist being superficial by not resorting to stereotypes and looks.

All I'm asking for is to have you tell us how the students are doing in the classes. Can you tell us that?
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Its oral school for HEARING IMPAIRED kids. The teachers didnt sign, they talked to the kids with FM thing. I saw anything that the kids couldn't hear much what the teacher said and didnt talk alot.. I stayed there for 2 hours.

BUT I still dont like the kids to have CI.. It's parents decision and they decided to have their kids to have CI.. What happened when the kids get older and realized that they dont like it.. I knew few friends of mine were forced by their parents when they were kids, they got older and remove it bec they made their own decision and want to do what they want, not what the parents want.

sigh, I think its enough to debating abt the kids with CI... It makes me sick..
 
MED-EL is the worldwide leader in bilateral cochlear implantation with over 300 bilateral users, ranging from infants to seniors. (as of April 2003)
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Um Boult, I don't think 300 cases translates into "not rare"
and They just need to be a child not having to go through alot of programs like including appropriate specialists, such as a school psychologist, speech-language pathologist, occupational therapist, physical therapist, medical specialist, educational diagnostician, classroom teacher, and others.. that is a lot of work for a Child that Young..
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Cheri, I do agree with you but on the other hand, it does seem like a signifcent percentage of parents who have chosen the oral-only route would have chosen it even if hearing aids were the only option available. But yeah...more parents need to accept their kids as deaf, and view oral programs not as making a deaf kid normal (the way it is now) but view oral programs as giving their kids additional survival skills. (so they can function somewhat in the hearing world)
 
Yeah, only 10% of them use it for the rest of their lives!!

What's wrong with just getting hearing aids? Cochlear implants are too extreme and is advocated mostly by oralists. Of all the Deaf people I know who had implants done, only about 90% percent of them no longer use their implants! It seems to be such a waste of money, time and physical pain if they aren't going to use them for the rest of their lives! I have seen Deaf kids who are taught the bilingual-bicultural (ASL-English) approach develop a stronger sense of confidence and independence. Very few of them have implants done. I also have seen the same age group of oral deaf kids who are too dependent on others to take care of them and have very low self-esteem. A large majority of these oral kids have cochlear implants. It is obvious that being implanted and being oral isn't the best way to go. Using hearing aids, I was oral until I started learning ASL in 1994. I became a better person because of being Deaf and using ASL. Being oral do have their benefits, but it never made me a happy person. My parents thought about giving me cochlear implants and decided strongly against it. So.. I am a better, happier person after learning ASL and growing to be part of the Deaf community and I didn't even need cochlear implants to accomplish this.
 
Hi everyone,

I read all of your posts carefully. I´m sorry to tell you that I´m agree or disagree some of your view but I respect your choice...

Here is my opinion: What you are agree or disagree with me is the welcome...

Well, I´m mother of 2 hearing sons & know an exactly how edcuation my children & also conercn their feeling, too....

Some of you think it´s not possible to deal with a seven year old?
My answer: YES, the children from 7 years old have the feeling & know what they want... Sure, we (parents) give them education what/why we think it´s best WITHOUT force them do something what they don´t want because their happiness are the most important to us..... With dentals, doctors, school etc appointments is a different story.

Example of all is my 8 years old son who have floppy ear reject to have an operation to improve his ears. Should I ignore him & get him to Surgery to improve his ears because he´s too little to understand? My answer: NO! The children know an exactly what they want or not... Of course I explained him why I think it´s good for him but I respect his wish...

I beleive is: give a child upbringing/education limit to right path & also support is belong parent´s job WITHOUT change/choose their babies´s bodies or anything what they want. To change or choose are not belong upbring/education limit or parent´s decision because it´s THEIR bodies, they choose to change with their parents´s support.

I´m not choose anything to give the children the food, clothes etc what I want because they have the different taste than me. Do you think that the children rely on their parents for everything from meals to clothes etc? My Answer: NO because there´re influence everywhere in the school, friends, family etc... That´s how they (children) learn/collect what they like to eat or have the taste with clothes through influence from everywhere... Some of the children have the different opinion than their parents because they like somewhere better..

I disagree most is...
The parents let their babies to toddler to surgery to change their bodies because they don´t like their babies´s bodies. It´s mean that the parents didn´t accept what the god give their children like this.
Train them to speak because they think CI make them hear like hearing world. I would like to remind you that CI can´t make you hear like hearing because you are still deaf...

I would like to remind you all that prosthetic arm or leg are NOT an implant like CI... The prothetic arm & leg are the same as hearing aid, glass etc. I would wear my children with prosthetic arm or leg like I would wear them with hearing aid straight way to improve their skills WITHOUT operation...

My husband is oral all of his life .. he is profoundly deaf like me. Most people said his speech is good but they weren´t realized how unhappy he was because he feel being under the pressure/ask too much due his parents´s decision. During his childhood, he learn all is how to speak all the time... he´s too tired of it.. He has no good relationship with his parents for that because he had the feeling that they are still not accept what he is. It put him total off when his parents told him that they would of implant him straight way when they learn the new better one than hearing aid. It´s stress for him to watch his teacher´s lip all the time. He feel more relax to use DGS (German sign language).

As you see what my husband suffered... You can´t expect that children can speak prefect like hearing with the help from CI but their education would be great only if they are WILLING to learn what they really want... like what I´m willing LEARN how to speak/understand/read Germans... without CI.

My opinion is:
Accept what my children are because I love them what they are.
Give the children love & attention
Enjoy to watch them grow up without get them to speech therapy...
Let them enjoy their fun first until their first school then it´s is a different story.

I would of agree to have my hearing sons to get CI straight way when they become deaf tomorrow because they grow up knowing hearing world (only if they want it)

Well, it´s not late for the children from 7 years old to teenagers learn their speech development or anything if they want to have CI later since they already wear hearing aid an earlier....The children without CI CAN learn to speak if they are WILLING do it.
Look at my friend wore hearing aid when she was 6 months old. She can speak like HOH... She CAN choose to have CI if she really want to BUT she is happy with hearing aid.

I already met a 8 years old Deaf boy at Deaf Club with his parents last week. His parents is my good friend... Her opinion are the same as me.... I was total surprised that his son know what CI is & told me HIMSELF that he refused to have CI. Could you imagine how a 8 years old saying that? Like what I said an earlier that they (children) know EXACTLY because they have FEELING like adult...

His parents let his son to mix with CI, HOH & Deaf children... he grow up with them.... He has the feeling & don´t want to have CI. He said this to me HIMSELF...

The interpreter for the deaf told me the story what it put her off when she saw only 3 of 25 CI children at classroom are willing to learn speak or hear. She´s glad to listen deafie´s instead of doctor´s recommend for not implant her 8 years old deaf son (now he´s 18 years old). He thank his mother for not implant him...

I beleive the CI is suitable for deaf children to adults who are WILLING to learn to speak or hear or really want it.

Please listen CI people here BECAUSE they know through their OWN experience & their OWN feeling, not us. It´s not first time because I often received a lot of sad stories from CI people.

To me, I'm proud to being deaf. I won't let anyone to make negatives over Deaf.... Sure, I was being mocked by hearing world over deafness in the past but I didn´t change my babies´s body over that.. Remember it´s NOT only deaf, but many disablities & also nonsense things, they made fun of..., like blind, wheelchair, glasses, fat, skinny, color skin etc.etc.etc.
Well, my sons were upset & told us that they were mocked by schoolmates over us... Their teachers are agreed with me for give their pupils the information over the deafness etc... The children realized now & nice to us.... My sons told them that "yes, my parents are deaf but I love them & proud of them etc".

Do SOMETHING instead of being sorry yourself.. The children dislike you for that if you keep being sorry yourself. Stop being sorry yourself but think about positive about yourself... be proud yourself what you can acheive everything with your life...

*Bottom Line is Remember: I do NOT against CI...Its the CHILD ALONE that will make that choice! It has NOTHING to do about learning the technology but child´s CHOICE!....
 
What's wrong with just getting hearing aids? Cochlear implants are too extreme and is advocated mostly by oralists. I have seen Deaf kids who are taught the bilingual-bicultural (ASL-English) approach develop a stronger sense of confidence and independence. Very few of them have implants done. I also have seen the same age group of oral deaf kids who are too dependent on others to take care of them and have very low self-esteem. A large majority of these oral kids have cochlear implants
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Well very often the kids who get CIs (especially early on) don't get all that much benifit from hearing aids. CIs were orginally invented to help those people who had severe/profound losses and didn't get all that much benifit from hearing aids. I am OK with CIs for those cases,(which incidently make up only about 5%-1% of deaf kids. I read that back in the old days oralists claimed that most deaf kids could hear and talk with hearing aids alone) but for ambigious cases...I think the parents should wait and let the kid make the decision when the kid's older. Excellent point about the self-esteem and indepedance. I know AG Bell's philopshy is that "oralism turns out indepenant, contribuating citizens" :roll:and while some of them might be pseduindependant (they don't have to rely on a 'terp) they still have to rely on technology or oral 'terps or whatever. They're just "independant" b/c they still can't understand 100% what's going on. (and I have no idea understanding something 100% is considered a crutch) Self-esteem is an excellent reason NOT to pursue an oral education. I'm sorry, but an education where you're constantly criticized on your speech and language is not an education conductive to good self-esteem. Mainstream kids very often pick on us, b/c our voices sound diffferent and a lot of times we get picked on and don't feel like we fit in b/c we may be the only dhh kid in the entire school.
 
As with all disabilities, hearing, blindness, physical, it is best for early intervention on children to obtain the best results. The later it is left the harder it is for the child. This is a fact! The hardest thing it seems, is to accept that deafness, blindness, physical disabilty are all the same as in all are disabilities and all need everyones support, especially the parents to provide a full and happy life. Don't get me wrong I know plenty of deaf people who are happy in themselves but don't we all want to do what is best for our children for the future.

You would not wait until the child was seven if you could fix blindness or a cleft palate (which is cosmetic surgery) or provide leg braces like my nephew to help him walk straight and tall.
Yes, Early intervention is key but on the other hand, early intervention isn't going to make the kid function like a hearing/seeing/nondisabled person. It just might give them additional skills. There are sucess stories out there, yes but there are still many kids who fall through the cracks or who still need disability aids (like walkers, speechreading, sign, wheelchairs, crutches and so on)
BTW, there's no way to "fix" blindness. Blindness has never been cured.
Cleft palate is not cosmetic sugery. Cleft palate affects speech and eating!
As for braces.....braces don't cure a foot/ leg malformation. All it does is give support to prevent really bad leg/foot malformations!
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You just don't get what I mean do you! "shrugs shoulders" If you read the post it said "if you could fix blindness" I know at this time there is not a cure but laser eye surgery has come a long way!!!

I mean I would do the best for my childs future for schooling etc, whether it be glasses, eye operation to improve sight, leg braces to straighten bow legs, C.I. if profoundly deaf for hearing and to improve "speech", operation for Cleft palate to improve "speech".

Why wait until seven??? I can't see how you can seperate C.I. from all other medical solutions to improve a childs life???

I know glasses can't make perfect sight, C.I. doesn't make you hearing but surely any benefit for your child should improve their future and face it, we only do these things in the best interest of our children.
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The implants are a slap in the face to the deaf population and "deaf culture". One thing that came across from the deaf people depicted that deaf folks are proud of their deafness, and they are clearly proud of their beautiful, expressive language. They do not generally view their deafness as a disability, so they don't understand the need to cure or alter the condition. The deaf parents who elected against the implants on babies and Small Children come across as good, caring, loving parents -- in a way that is difficult for a some people to understand.

The issue of the cochlear implant is apparently an emotional one in the deaf world. Those of us Have intense arguments over it...This is a very serious subject... Not everyone is Going to Agree with each others on CI or Without CI...the bottom line is keep an open mind that everyone has their Opinion If anybody is willing to open up and understand each others and Accept their Opinions even though Some People are not at all eager "to implant" babies and Small Children that doesn't mean they are Wrong to think that way....

Please Respect Others.. :ily:
 
I know at this time there is not a cure but laser eye surgery has come a long way!!!
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Laser eye surgery for blindness? There is laser eye surgery that helps ROP (retiniopathy of prematurity) but most blindness can't be helped by the laser surgery at least at this time. Laser surgery helps people who can't see without glasses...not legally blind folks. Besides, there are pathologies which are impossible for doctors to figure out or fix. (like Peter's Anomoly)

I mean I would do the best for my childs future for schooling etc, whether it be glasses, eye operation to improve sight, leg braces to straighten bow legs, C.I. if profoundly deaf for hearing and to improve "speech", operation for Cleft palate to improve "speech".

Why wait until seven??? I can't see how you can seperate C.I. from all other medical solutions to improve a childs life???

I know glasses can't make perfect sight, C.I. doesn't make you hearing but surely any benefit for your child should improve their future and face it, we only do these things in the best interest of our children.
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FOA, I'm not one of the folks who is advocating waiting til seven. I think in some cases, it would be helpful if parents waited until the kid was a little olde. Me, I would wait until the child could be tested both by traditional means and ABR, just b/c I am cynical and don't believe in reliying on technology. (I've heard of cases where the ABR indicated profound loss, but the kid showed a hoh loss on traditional play audiotremy. The difference between CI and other medical interventions is simple. CI is NOT essential. A deaf kid can function perfectly well without CI. However, with braces, glasses etc there are no alternatives. See what I mean?
 
Cheri said:
The implants are a slap in the face to the deaf population and "deaf culture". One thing that came across from the deaf people depicted that deaf folks are proud of their deafness, and they are clearly proud of their beautiful, expressive language. They do not generally view their deafness as a disability, so they don't understand the need to cure or alter the condition. The deaf parents who elected against the implants on babies and Small Children come across as good, caring, loving parents -- in a way that is difficult for a some people to understand.
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The deaf parents who elected against the implants on babies and Small Children come across as good, caring, loving parents
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What about the hearing parents who choose to implant their babies and children?

Do they come as good, caring, loving parents or not?
 
Banjo said:
What about the hearing parents who choose to implant their babies and children?

Do they come as good, caring, loving parents or not?
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I am not going to Judge weather Hearing People want to Implant their babies and Children because they have not gave a chance to try out another way around.. Like for Example there are Speech Specialist they could go to to help their Deaf Child...But, If they decide Implant is the Best Choice then let it be.
 
deafdyke said:
Laser eye surgery for blindness? There is laser eye surgery that helps ROP (retiniopathy of prematurity) but most blindness can't be helped by the laser surgery at least at this time. Laser surgery helps people who can't see without glasses...not legally blind folks. Besides, there are pathologies which are impossible for doctors to figure out or fix. (like Peter's Anomoly)
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I have already said I know there is no cure AT THIS TIME, who knows in the future!!!

deafdyke said:
FOA, I'm not one of the folks who is advocating waiting til seven. I think in some cases, it would be helpful if parents waited until the kid was a little olde. Me, I would wait until the child could be tested both by traditional means and ABR, just b/c I am cynical and don't believe in reliying on technology. (I've heard of cases where the ABR indicated profound loss, but the kid showed a hoh loss on traditional play audiotremy. The difference between CI and other medical interventions is simple. CI is NOT essential. A deaf kid can function perfectly well without CI. However, with braces, glasses etc there are no alternatives. See what I mean?
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Your right C.I. is not essential, the child can attend deaf school, also glasses are not essential the child can attend blind school if necessary, braces aren't essential we have wheelchairs.

The only thing essential is something required to save ones life. We can go round in circles all day if we want, but different people have different opinions. I didn't say what age, all I said is I would investigate all possible solutions to give my child the best possible future. If that meant C.I. so be it.

And yes I agree with many tests as we have experienced stupid people who think the children must be deaf just because I am.
 
Your right C.I. is not essential, the child can attend deaf school, also glasses are not essential the child can attend blind school if necessary, braces aren't essential we have wheelchairs.

The only thing essential is something required to save ones life. We can go round in circles all day if we want, but different people have different opinions. I didn't say what age, all I said is I would investigate all possible solutions to give my child the best possible future. If that meant C.I. so be it.
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Red Rum, I disagree....glasses are essential and so are AFOs (braces)
Only a very small percentage of glasses wearers are blind. (yes...many blind wear glasses. Just as with deaf having lots of residual hearing, most blind have some residual vision) Most glasses wearers
are far, or nearsighted. However, lots of blind people wear glasses to help them with what residual sight they have left! Most AFO wearers, use them to correct deformaties of the feet or legs.(that can cause pain) Even wheelchair users wear AFOs!
 
deafdyke said:
Red Rum, I disagree....glasses are essential and so are AFOs (braces)
Only a very small percentage of glasses wearers are blind. (yes...many blind wear glasses. Just as with deaf having lots of residual hearing, most blind have some residual vision) Most glasses wearers
are far, or nearsighted. However, lots of blind people wear glasses to help them with what residual sight they have left! Most AFO wearers, use them to correct deformaties of the feet or legs.(that can cause pain) Even wheelchair users wear AFOs!
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Deafdyke, I agree with you but you forgot to add hearing aids or cochlear implants are essential too.
 
Cheri said:
The implants are a slap in the face to the deaf population and "deaf culture". One thing that came across from the deaf people depicted that deaf folks are proud of their deafness, and they are clearly proud of their beautiful, expressive language.
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Speaking about the 'slap'.

If your child has rotten their teeth and their need be in fix as such teeth implant. So is that sound such slap the population of rotten teeth? It expressive the beaut white teeth.

Second, if person is blind and want to be see. Is that still count as slap who is prouding be blind population? It expressive the color of world.

Respect others? How can be respect if they have the facts as result?
 
deafdyke said:
Laser eye surgery for blindness? There is laser eye surgery that helps ROP (retiniopathy of prematurity) but most blindness can't be helped by the laser surgery at least at this time. Laser surgery helps people who can't see without glasses...not legally blind folks. Besides, there are pathologies which are impossible for doctors to figure out or fix.
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Actully, they success with blind problem to be solve being see again. However, it will not show as color. It will be like animal's vision for now until future has improve tech. Their sucess caused from Clarion of cochlear implant. Only who is getting one that has nerves disconnect or several damaged. Who has no or none nerves around the eyes between the brain will not able implant to see the color of world. In future will possible that happen.
 
ideafspy said:
Speaking about the 'slap'.

If your child has rotten their teeth and their need be in fix as such teeth implant. So is that sound such slap the population of rotten teeth? It expressive the beaut white teeth.

Second, if person is blind and want to be see. Is that still count as slap who is prouding be blind population? It expressive the color of world.

Respect others? How can be respect if they have the facts as result?
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You have a way of going Off Topic... The name of this thread is "What's so wrong with CI" so Stick with the Topic if u want to ask questions about Blind or teeth or etc. then make up a New Thread ask that question not in here! :slap:

U talking about respect if you have the facts in results?:Laffin: U don't get it do you? Read my post again I said respect those who spoke their opionions it does not matter what is the facts its about what they feel inside their heart their mind. this is what the forum is for ...."Everybody" Thank you.... :mrgreen:
 
Interestingly enough today I was at Deaf Studies conference in Orem, and one of the workshops I went to was on cochlear implants. The speaker spoke about two different perspectives: deafness as a medical condition and Deafness as a pyscho-social condition. Most hearing parents view deafness as a medical condition because they are unaware of the pyscho-social aspects of the Deaf community. It is a matter of how one view deafness as either one of these two views.
 
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