What dB loss makes you "deaf" rather than "hard-of-hearing"?

[Taric25]

My former-friend, who is DeafBlind, Barry, told me once that if someone has a hearing impairment less than a 55 dB loss, they are hard-of-hearing, and if not, they are deaf.

I told him that to be D/deaf or H/hard-of-H/hearing is based on the ability to speak. I told him that if someone is D/deaf and speaks, but uses residual hearing, that person may consider oneself H/hard-of-H/hearing. If someone is D/deaf and does not speak, that person may condiser oneself to be D/deaf, and if someone is D/deaf and speaks, that person may also consider onself to be O/oral D/deaf. In addition, if a person becomes D/deaf later in life, that person may consider oneself L/latened D/deafened. Also, if someone has a hearing impairment unrelated to decibal or tone loss, that person may consider oneself H/hearing-I/impaired.

Obviously, we got into a heated discussion, in Barry's opinion, a person who is deaf and signs ASL and is in Deaf Culture is Deaf, not deaf, and someone who is oral deaf is a deaf person who chooses not to sign and uses only oralism. He also was relentless to his conclusion that a 55 dB loss determined whether or not someone is deaf or hard-of-hearing.

I told him to conseder a few things. In ASL, we sign "DEAF" by touching the ear and mouth, showing hearing and speech or "deaf-mute", as ASL was invented in 1817, and that was the common word pair to use at the time. Also, we sign "HEARING" by showing words flowing out of the mouth. The signs we use do not denotate being Hearing with the physical ability of being able to hear, but the ability to speak. If we believed otherwise, that the difference between being D/deaf and H/hard-of-H/hearing related to decibel loss, we would not sign "HEARING" by showing words flowing out of the mouth. We would sign as it is signed in DGS (Deutsche Gebärdensprache [German Sign Language]), "HOREND" ("HEARING") showing something coming out of the ear, however, even in Germany, that sign is used to describe the physical ability to hear and not usually a Hearing person. In DGS, the sign for Gehörlos (Deaf) is the same as ours, showing hearing and speech.

Here are how I understand these definitions.

deaf: a person who is deaf and may not speak

Deaf: a person who is deaf, may not speak, signs ASL and is in Deaf culture

hard-of-hearing: a person who has decibal loss and likely speaks and uses residual hearing

Hard-of-Hearing: a person who has decibal loss, likely speaks and uses residual hearing, signs ASL and is in Deaf culture

oral deaf: a person who is deaf and does speak

Oral Deaf: a person who is deaf and does speak, signs ASL and is in Deaf culture

latened deafened or Latened Deafened: a person who has become deaf later in life and likely speaks, may use residual hearing, and may not sign ASL and/or be in Deaf culture

hearing-impaired or Hearing-Impaired: a person who has hearing loss, may or may not speak, and may or may not sign ASL and/or be in Deaf Culture

speech-disabled, Speech-Disabled, speech-impaired, Speech-Impaired, soft-spoken, Soft-Spoken or a person who has a speech disability: a person who likely hears, may not use residual speech, and may sign ASL and/or be in Deaf culture

deaf-blind, Deaf-blind, Deaf-Blind, deaf/blind, Deaf/blind, Deaf/Blind, deafblind, Deafblind or DeafBlind: a person who has both hearing and/or speech loss & vision and/or writing loss, may use residual hearing/speech & vision/writing, may sign ASL and/or Visual Frame Sign Language and/or TSL (Tactile Sign Language) and/or be in Deaf and/or Blind culture and may use audio and/or small/large print and/or braille

hearing or Hearing: a person who hears, speaks and may not sign ASL and/or be in Deaf culture

According to Wikipedia – The Free Encyclopedia, there are many kinds of deafness and hearing impairments.

• Unilateral
• Pre-lingual
• Peri-lingual
• Post-lingual
• Partial
• Progressive
• Profound
• Limited (to tone)
• Tinnitus

I am the very last of that list. I am Hearing-Impaired, but my hearing impairment is unrelated to decibil or tone loss, because I have a ringing in my ears that never goes away. I have tinnitus. I sign ASL, and I am in Deaf culture.

 

[Eve]

I dunno where you are getting your info, but a 90 db loss is deaf and 40+ db loss is HoH.

 

[Taric25]

Where I got my dB loss information

I dunno where you are getting your info, but a 90 db loss is deaf and 40+ db loss is HoH.

I already wrote where I got my information.

My former-friend, who is DeafBlind, Barry, told me once that if someone has a hearing impairment less than a 55 dB loss, they are hard-of-hearing, and if not, they are deaf.

According to Wikipedia – The Free Encyclopedia, there are many kinds of deafness and hearing impairments.

 

[deafskeptic]

Here are how I understand these definitions.

deaf: a person who is deaf and may not speak

Deaf: a person who is deaf, may not speak, signs ASL and is in Deaf culture

hard-of-hearing: a person who has decibal loss and likely speaks and uses residual hearing

Hard-of-Hearing: a person who has decibal loss, likely speaks and uses residual hearing, signs ASL and is in Deaf culture

oral deaf: a person who is deaf and does speak

Oral Deaf: a person who is deaf and does speak, signs ASL and is in Deaf culture

Interesting. It's my understanding that you're considered Deaf regardless of your hearing loss if you're active in the Deaf community and are fluent in ASL.

I seem to have slightly different meanings of what d/Deaf means to me than you do.

For example my definition of oral deaf is this:
Oral deaf: A deaf person who grew up using the oral way and doesn't know ASL and is not part of the Deaf culture.

deaf: someone who is deaf; may or may not speak but is not part of the Deaf culture.

Deaf: one who is fluent in ASL and is acknowledged to be part of the Deaf community. Usually from a Deaf family and either has a hearing loss or is a CODA. May also apply to some late comers (both hearing and deaf) given enough time.

 

[shel90]

For example my definition of oral deaf is this:
Oral Deaf: A deaf person who grew up using the oral way and doesn't know ASL and is not part of the Deaf culture.

deaf: someone who is deaf; may or may not speak but is not part of the Deaf culture.

Deaf: one who is fluent in ASL and is acknowledged to be part of the Deaf community. Usually from a Deaf family and either has a hearing loss or is a CODA. May also apply to some late comers (both hearing and deaf) given enough time.

Who gets to determine that someone who grew up oral and has learned ASL is (D)eaf or still (d)eaf? Everyone in the deaf community has different opinions on that. Some people consider me (D)eaf since I am fluent in ASL and other consider me (d)eaf based solely on the fact that I grew up not knowing ASL nor about the deaf culture. Right now the most important thing to me is I have my family and friends that love and accept me for who I am.

 

[dracotkk]

I've never heard having HoH mean something different than hoh. o.o I agree with DeafSkeptic on the terms.

 

[R2D2]

I dunno where you are getting your info, but a 90 db loss is deaf and 40+ db loss is HoH.

That has been my understanding also.

My hearing loss has always been 90DB+ but my primary communication has always been oral and I've always felt it was dishonest to refer to myself as hard of hearing just because of my preferred choice of communication. It just doesn't feel right - I guess maybe I have images of people who once could hear but who have lost a little bit due to old age or similar. I always have called myself "deaf".

 

[greema]

I must say I totally agree with deafskeptic here! I consider myself to be Deaf (grew up oral -- CID -- left CID to enter public school in 6th grade and went on to graduate from hearing high school (with absolutely NO interpreter or note-takers with the exception of one class which was wholly based on the teacher's lecture so my counselor allowed me to bring a tape recorder for my mom to transcribe) -- I was strictly oral until I was about 13 or 14 and a good friend started attending the state school for the deaf and I met Deaf through her and started picking up ASL; my first husband's family was Deaf -- went to the deaf club and totally immersed myself into the Deaf culture.

I can speak pretty good but I'm not gonna brag that everyone understand me!

My sister is hoh but she went to the state school for the deaf in her teens and she married a hoh man who went there his whole life.

And I really like what Shel had to say!

 

[deafskeptic]

Who gets to determine that someone who grew up oral and has learned ASL is (D)eaf or still (d)eaf? Everyone in the deaf community has different opinions on that. Some people consider me (D)eaf since I am fluent in ASL and other consider me (d)eaf based solely on the fact that I grew up not knowing ASL nor about the deaf culture. Right now the most important thing to me is I have my family and friends that love and accept me for who I am.

Heh, very good question. I've been wondering that one for years.

 

[Boult]

Taric25,

Hearing impairment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hear Again]

I've always been told that a 90+ dB loss is D/deaf while a 30-85 dB loss is considered hard of hearing.

I've had severe-profound hearing loss for the past 11 years and referred to myself as "hard of hearing" until I could no longer understand speech with an FM system. Once I lost what speech discrimination I had in my right ear and started using tactile sign and other alternative methods for communication, I started calling myself deaf.

As for someone being "Deaf' in a cultural sense, this is not defined by one's audiogram. Someone with normal hearing can be considered "Deaf" just as much as a person with total hearing loss.

 

[ismi]

I've heard numbers similar to those, but I've always operated with deaf/hard of hearing being a distinction in how one grew up. So I have about a 90 dB loss (ish - it goes up and down about 5-10 dB), and have had for several years now, but all my communication is oral, and my progressive loss means I learned to speak without therapy, when I only had a mild to moderate loss. Because of that, I don't 'sound deaf', and my speech perception with lip reading is good enough that hearing people sometimes don't realize I'm ... er, whatever I am. So the few times I have called myself deaf, it's just resulted in confusion - and I don't really feel I have a claim on the word, anyway. (Not to mention that a lot of hearing people I know assume that deaf means Deaf, and anyone else must be HOH.) Calling myself hard of hearing works for me, especially when I preface it with "severe to profound".

Just another perspective - YMMV.

 

[Hear Again]

ismi,

I've had severe-profound loss for the past 11 years and I don't sound "deaf" either. I do have a tendency to slur my words and I have a nasal quality to my voice (which I've had since I was diagnosed with a moderately-severe loss at age 15), but I don't have a "deaf" voice per se.

Just wanted to clarify my post above. My left ear has had no speech discrimination for the past 11 years. When I lost what speech discrimination I had in my right ear, it was only then that I considered myself deaf.

 

[ismi]

I've had severe-profound loss for the past 11 years and I don't sound "deaf" either. I do have a tendency to slur my words and I have a nasal quality to my voice (which I've had since I was diagnosed with a moderately-severe loss at age 15), but I don't have a "deaf" voice per se.

Just wanted to clarify my post above. My left ear has had no speech discrimination for the past 11 years. When I lost what speech discrimination I had in my right ear, it was only then that I considered myself deaf.

Speech discrimination is probably part of why I consider myself HOH - but I know people who have discrimination similar to mine and consider themselves deaf. I guess what I'm saying is that using audiological 'cutoffs' for deaf/HOH is a bit like trying to use an audiological cutoff for Deafness - it might fit for a lot of people, but there are also a lot of exceptions. How people self-identify is always hard to guess.

 

[Hear Again]

Speech discrimination is probably part of why I consider myself HOH - but I know people who have discrimination similar to mine and consider themselves deaf. I guess what I'm saying is that using audiological 'cutoffs' for deaf/HOH is a bit like trying to use an audiological cutoff for Deafness - it might fit for a lot of people, but there are also a lot of exceptions. How people self-identify is always hard to guess.

I agree.

How one chooses to identify themselves may also have to do with the country in which they live. In some countries, "deaf" describes anyone with a hearing loss regardless of degree.

 

[Taric25]

Oral Deaf and oral deaf

Oral deaf: A deaf person who grew up using the oral way and doesn't know ASL and is not part of the Deaf culture.

There is a difference between Oral Deaf and oral deaf.

For example, my friend, John, signed ASL since he was about 7 years old, but he also went through extensive speech therapy, and everyone can understand his speech. When he signs Deaf, for himself, he doesn't use the classical sign DEAF pointing at the ear and mouth. He uses a 5-handshape, palm facing forward and fingers pointed up, touching the ear, and the hand rotates backwards, with the fingers pointing backwards and the palm facing up. His sign indicates he is Deaf, but it does not denotate that he is unable to speak. He lives with a Hard-of-Hearing roommate, Kirk, who also signs ASL, and a Hearing-Blind roommate, Nader. Nader fingerspells, but he does not have very good sense of touch. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to communicate with Nader if John and Kirk did not speak?

 

[Hear Again]

I didn't know there was a distinction made between Oral Deaf and oral deaf. Interesting.

There are other communication methods that could be used with Nader including print on palm (tracing block letters in the palm of the hand -- or another part of the body such as the arm, back, etc.) and fingerbraille (using the first 3 fingers of each hand to represent the keys of a Perkins Brailler -- dots 1, 2 and 3 represent the first 3 fingers of the left hand and dots 4, 5 and 6 represent the first 3 fingers of the right hand -- again, this can be used on any part of the body). Depending on how much sensitivity he has in his fingers, he could also use a Braille/print alphabet card using Jumbo Braille (Braille that contains larger spacing between dots and is twice the size of standard Braille).

 

[Taric25]

Good Braille Ideas

There are other communication methods that could be used with Nader including print on palm (tracing block letters in the palm of the hand -- or another part of the body such as the arm, back, etc.) and fingerbraille (using the first 3 fingers of each hand to represent the keys of a Perkins Brailler -- dots 1, 2 and 3 represent the first 3 fingers of the left hand and dots 4, 5 and 6 represent the first 3 fingers of the right hand -- again, this can be used on any part of the body). Depending on how much sensitivity he has in his fingers, he could also use a Braille/print alphabet card using Jumbo Braille (Braille that contains larger spacing between dots and is twice the size of standard Braille).

Nader doesn't have enough sensititivity for print on palm or Perkins Brailler, but we've never tried it on another part of the body. That's a good idea.

Nader is totally Blind and cannot read large print. He reads Braille very slowly. I remember I got him a print-braille book, and it took us half an hour to read the word "January" (J-A-N-U-AR-Y in braille, AR is a combined letter). I haven't tried Jumbo Braille though. That's also a good idea.

I notice you capitalize Braille. Can you give us some background?

 

[Hear Again]

I notice you capitalize Braille. Can you give us some background?

Taric,

I've always capitalized the word Braille in honor of Louis Braille. In fact, many blind people I know who use Braille on a daily basis tend to capitalize the word.

There are over 180 contractions (short form words such as "b" for but, "c" for can, "d" for do, "f" for from, "k" for knowledge, "l" for like, "v" for very, "z" for as, dots 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 for "you," dots 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 for "and," dots 2, 3, 4, 6 for the, "t-g-r for together, "p" for people, prefixes such as "ch," "com," "dis," "st," suffixes such as "ed") in Grade II Braille including various punctuation signs such as a "dropped h" (refers to the lower half of a Braille cell) for a question mark/open parenthesis, a "dropped d" for a period, dot 5 for a comma, dot 6 for a capital sign or a "dropped f" for an exclamation point. Of course, like ASL, the way a contraction is used depends on the context of a sentence. For example, a dropped d in one sentence can represent the "dis" sign (such as in the word disappoint) while in another it can represent a period. The same is true for the dropped h which can represent an open parenthesis, the word "his" or a question mark.

If you'd like to learn more about Braille, the BRL (Braille Through Remote Learning) is an excellent website to refer to:

BRL: Braille Through Remote Learning

If you or others have any other questions about Braille, let me know.

 

[greema]

There is a difference between Oral Deaf and oral deaf.

For example, my friend, John, signed ASL since he was about 7 years old, but he also went through extensive speech therapy, and everyone can understand his speech. When he signs Deaf, for himself, he doesn't use the classical sign DEAF pointing at the ear and mouth. He uses a 5-handshape, palm facing forward and fingers pointed up, touching the ear, and the hand rotates backwards, with the fingers pointing backwards and the palm facing up. His sign indicates he is Deaf, but it does not denotate that he is unable to speak. He lives with a Hard-of-Hearing roommate, Kirk, who also signs ASL, and a Hearing-Blind roommate, Nader. Nader fingerspells, but he does not have very good sense of touch. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to communicate with Nader if John and Kirk did not speak?

Taric25, I am curious as to which you would consider John to be: oral deaf or Oral Deaf?
Remember I was raised oral and English was my first language and when I started signing at age 13 or 14 (ASL was my first sign language) and I have signed "deaf" in any signs that denotes "deaf" -- 1) pointing from chin to ear; 2) that 5-handshape (with one hand) as you described; 3) same handshape in #2 but with two hands -- because of this, I've never considered myself to be o/Oral d/Deaf, just d/Deaf (depending on the moment) that was raised oral. I'm very interested in comments/opinions from the others on board.