Two things that happened this week that made me mad and really think...

[shel90]

Two things that happened this week that really got my blood boiling but made me really sit and think differently. Warning...this may be LOOONG!

I cant go into full details and cant state the sex of the child but there was a situation with the hearing parents of a deaf child. The child has a CI and was sent to a deaf school at a later age cuz the child wasnt doing well in the mainstreamed program. The child picked up ASL so fast during the first year at the school where the child goes. Well, the parents made a complaint to the school that the child's speech still hasnt developed despite hours and hours of speech therapy. I cant say why the child is not benefiting from the CI but the one comment that the parents said really got me soooooo pissed off. They said "We cant wait until our child learns how to speak so we can finally communicate with the child and get to know our own child." They expressed their frustrations with difficulties in helping their child with homework and everything else. They said they feel they dont know who their child is. WTF?????

My issue with this is that if the parents want so badly to communicate and get to know their child, WHY CANT they learn sign language?? Even if it is hard or they may not become as fluent..ANY sign language is better than nothing!!!

This really made me think..in the other "hot" thread about CIs and everyone bashing each other, I expressed my feelings about being on the fence with CIs. U know what I just realized? It is not the CI themselves that I am having some anger about...that really "woke me up". I just realized that I am not against CIs themselves at all and I do think they are a great tool that help people. What I just realized that I am against the "fix the child" attitudes that come with it. There are so many parents that I have encountered that are sooo dead set in believing that the CI will solve all their child's hearing and communication issues that they really forget about meeting the child's needs. It is all about meeting their needs and that ticks me off cuz what about meeting the child's deaf needs? What if the child doesnt really benefit from the CI? They forget about ASL or deny ASL to the child and put so much focus on speech and listening skills and as a result as the child has no strong language. I have personally seen that as the older the child gets without any strong language, the more difficult it will become for the child to learn at school.

I grew up oral and thinking about it..it was always me having to work my ass off to meet the communication needs of my hearing family, hearing teachers at my schools, and my hearing friends but not once they considered maybe meeting me half way to meet my deaf needs? That is what I see in those parents and as a result, the child suffers both academically and emotionally if they are unable to meet their hearing needs. I am all for speech and listening skillsbut I would like to see the parents make some sacrifices themselves and learn ASL or at least really put themselves in their child's shoes to think about meeting some of their deaf needs. That was why I applaud those parents who even after getting their child implanted still think of their child's deaf needs.


Now another situation..my husband is hearing as many of u probably know and he is very understanding of my deaf needs so no problem there. Well, yesterday he asked me if I wanted to join him to SEARS so he can get his new tires and I can get my HAs fixed. As a Xmas present, his dad said he will pay for his 4 new tires so this morning while we are getting dressed, he kept telling me to hurry up. I told him to go ahead (I assumed that we were taking 2 cars so we can drop his car off ) and he was like "huh? Arent we going together?" I said "No, I thought we were taking two cars?" Blah blah...turns out he wanted us to go to his parents' house first and then we stay there all day while his car gets fixed. I was like No way! He was like why? I said cuz I cant understand them...and I am not staying there all day while everyone is chatting and I am sitting there twiddling my fingers. He was like "it never bothered u before". I told him that yes I will stay for about 2 hours there to say hi and show myself and will stay longer for family gatherings. That was the first time he wanted us to stay at his parents' all day for no special reason. He can do that but I wont. He was a little disappointed. My mom happened to be online and I told her what happened. U know what my mom said? She said that I was being rude and I should stay there all day out of respect for them and spend time with them. I was SHOCKED cuz I didnt know she saw it that way. She said that when my deaf brother or I leave after 2 hours at a family gathering, it offends everyone.

My issue with this is that I dont want to spend all day sitting there doing nothing while everyone is chatting away. I will stay for 2 hours and will make efforts to chat with everyone but if they dont make the efforts to make sure they are facing me or make sure I know what is going on, then I dont see a reason for me to stay all day. If they did make some effort, sure I will!!! I have accepted that they wont make the efforts and I am not going to force nor demand that from them but I dont think they should expect me to stay all day. When I am there, I honestly feel that they dont even notice that I am there cuz they are so busy just chatting away. For two hours, that is fine with me..I have accepted it but I will NOT accept staying all day. I have other things that I can do and I dont feel that I should make the sacrifice and give up my weekend day just to make an appearance. I think 2 hours is good enough and for my husband and my mom to be disappointed in me for that is really amazing. I was surprised at my husband but later he said he understands and wishes his family would make a little more effort. My mom? That was shocking to me! Growing up, my brother and I were always left out in our family gatherings and we worked hard to make the effort to chat with our family members but they would just stop chatting and jump into other conversations leaving us out. Not once (except for my mom), they would make the efforts to make sure my brother and I know what everyone is talking about. When we would ask them what is going on or whatever, they would say "We will tell u later or it is nothing." Come on!! Fuck that!

My question and my issue is why do I have to compromise myself to make others happy...why cant they meet halfway too? If they dont want to meet halfway, that is fine with me but dont get mad if I dont want to spend all day with them??!!! That to me is just plain rude!

I needed to vent and sorry this is soooo long and rambling but I did some serious thinking about those two incidents and I think I know why many deaf people have anger issues with many hearing people (not all) cuz we are expected to meet their hearing needs but they feel they dont need to meet our deaf needs.

If any of u disagree, fine but that is just how I really feel. On the other hand, I feel better realizing that I really am not on the fence about CIs at all.

 

[morbid-mongoose]

I grew up oral and thinking about it..it was always me having to work my ass off to meet the communication needs of my hearing family, hearing teachers at my schools, and my hearing friends but not once they considered maybe meeting me half way to meet my deaf needs? That is what I see in those parents and as a result, the child suffers both academically and emotionally if they are unable to meet their hearing needs. I am all for speech and listening skillsbut I would like to see the parents make some sacrifices themselves and learn ASL or at least really put themselves in their child's shoes to think about meeting some of their deaf needs.

Yeah, I'm dealing with that right now. My parents think it's my responsibility to communicate with people. When I asked my mom to back me up about an incident at school where I got in trouble relating to something I couldn't hear, she said, "No. It's not the school's fault you can't hear."

She said that when my deaf brother or I leave after 2 hours at a family gathering, it offends everyone... My issue with this is that I dont want to spend all day sitting there doing nothing while everyone is chatting away. I will stay for 2 hours and will make efforts to chat with everyone but if they dont make the efforts to make sure they are facing me or make sure I know what is going on, then I dont see a reason for me to stay all day. If they did make some effort, sure I will!!! I have accepted that they wont make the efforts and I am not going to force nor demand that from them but I dont think they should expect me to stay all day. When I am there, I honestly feel that they dont even notice that I am there cuz they are so busy just chatting away.

My family gets pissed too. I totaly understand the whole thing about them ignoring you the whole time and then getting upset when you leave. It's ridiculous.

<33

 

[Angel]

Good vent there Shel90, I competely understand how you feel there, and I do agreed, also I feel the same way when you said "That was why I applaud those parents who even after getting their child implanted still think of their child's deaf needs." .. I've debates in CI threads for several years, first I was against the CI in children, I had my reason for that, but then I learned alot more about these implants, and heard the parents's reason for it, I read some amazing stories of their children with CI, but the feelings Im getting from a few CI users wasn't being quite open mind about Anti-CIs viewers, I see attitudes flying on both sides, yet they only put blame on the Anti-CIs. so I decide to step out of those CI threads, I'm tired of some people not looking at themselves, respect goes both ways never one way....So it got to the point it was too much for me to handle, so I decide to not post in the CI threads anymore....but once in a while I would read stories about their children with CI, that's the only time it put a smile on my face...

 

[highlands]

I am against some parents who wants their deaf children live in only hearing world. I always support CIs but CIs don't make a deaf child hearing. The child still has deaf world,and hence he/she may prefer communicating via sign rather than speech and there is nothing wrong with it.. so if I had an impanted child I would go in both ways of communicating ,sign and speech regarding the child's preference as well.. If child wants to build his/her world in deaf world then his/her parents should accept and respect it.

 

[Roadrunner]

Shel90....

In the meantime, turn on a 'fan' and take a good long look at your child...be so ever grateful for him. Apparently you're a cool and caring mother!


Straddlin' the fence may be a thing of the past...now...you sure can make a difference.





~RR

 

[deafskeptic]

I used to be against CIs in children and nowadays I'm neutral about CIs in children.

However, I feel a strong sense of disquiet when I read a post like Shel90. When I read that post I keep thinking of the grandfather with a CI grandson who's a friend of my parents. I was told that he couldn't speak well. I keep wondering if his parents learned sign or if they chose to go the oral route only. Although this isn't true of all hearing parents with deaf children, I wonder why so many are resistant to sign language.

If I were to have a child who was born deaf and I had the child implanted, I'd make damn sure they know sign even if they don't learn to speak. I don't want my deaf kids to end up like the child in Shel's post or the CI grandson.

 

[Angel]

I used to be against CIs in children and nowadays I'm neutral about CIs in children.

.

Same here ...

 

[kayla123]

I could understand being angry and frustrated with those parents who refuse to sign, after all, first and foremost it's about being able to communicate with your child and vice versa. I myself have'nt met any parents who have refused to sign and i don't recall seeing any parents in here refusing to learn sign. My daughter does'nt sign yet, but we will start this summer when she starts going to a camp with other dhh kids. There are no other dhh kids in her school and i think it's important for her to meet kids just like her. I wanted her to communicate verbally first, but not because i'm against sign. I know she is and always will be deaf, it's who she is and i'm very proud of her. After the surgery i wanted to make sure i put her through that for a reason, which was to communicate verbally and i did everything i could to make sure she did. I wanted her to be involved in everything and so far she is. My husband and i are going to take the classes with her and we will sign to each other but i can't make everyone else take sign classes. So it's not about refuseing to sign but when a parent chooses the CI, obviously they want their child to talk and to make it work you have to concentrate on spoken language first. I just think it gets misunderstood at times but then again like i said i have'nt met any parents who have refused to sign and if they are out there then it is a shame. The best thing you could do for you dhh chid is make sure they have both tools so when they get older they are well equipped and decide for themselves which route they want to take, or better yet be part of both worlds.

 

[shel90]

I could understand being angry and frustrated with those parents who refuse to sign, after all, first and foremost it's about being able to communicate with your child and vice versa. I myself have'nt met any parents who have refused to sign and i don't recall seeing any parents in here refusing to learn sign. My daughter does'nt sign yet, but we will start this summer when she starts going to a camp with other dhh kids. There are no other dhh kids in her school and i think it's important for her to meet kids just like her. I wanted her to communicate verbally first, but not because i'm against sign. I know she is and always will be deaf, it's who she is and i'm very proud of her. After the surgery i wanted to make sure i put her through that for a reason, which was to communicate verbally and i did everything i could to make sure she did. I wanted her to be involved in everything and so far she is. My husband and i are going to take the classes with her and we will sign to each other but i can't make everyone else take sign classes. So it's not about refuseing to sign but when a parent chooses the CI, obviously they want their child to talk and to make it work you have to concentrate on spoken language first. I just think it gets misunderstood at times but then again like i said i have'nt met any parents who have refused to sign and if they are out there then it is a shame. The best thing you could do for you dhh chid is make sure they have both tools so when they get older they are well equipped and decide for themselves which route they want to take, or better yet be part of both worlds.

Yea, we need more parents like u. I have a feeling the parents of deaf children who are members here are very open minded and are understanding of their child's deaf needs and limitations.

As for concentrating on spoken language first, that is where I think it gets risky. If u focus on it solely at first for the sake to make the CI work but if for some reason the child is not picking up on the spoken language doesnt that put the child at a risk for language development delays? Why not focus on both learning ASL and spoken language from the start?

Believe me, there are parents out there that refuse to learn sign language. My parents are in that group. :/

 

[Kuifje75]

Shel, I think you would be surprised to know that even if a parent knows sign language, he-she will still leave you out of conversations in family gatherings. I would know, cos both of my parents sign. Every time there is a family gathering or friends coming over to visit, they never include me in the conversations. But I made it clear to them early in lifetime that I wasn't going to be around if they weren't gonna include me. There were still gaps in communication between me and my parents, mostly because there was not an understanding by my family that they don't include me. Sometimes I find out about family news which they thought I knew, but never told me because they didn't include me in conversations. I remind them of that and their "I'll tell you later" attitudes. That makes them angry that I point it out to them about that. Oh well...

 

[shel90]

Shel, I think you would be surprised to know that even if a parent knows sign language, he-she will still leave you out of conversations in family gatherings. I would know, cos both of my parents sign. Every time there is a family gathering or friends coming over to visit, they never include me in the conversations. But I made it clear to them early in lifetime that I wasn't going to be around if they weren't gonna include me. There were still gaps in communication between me and my parents, mostly because there was not an understanding by my family that they don't include me. Sometimes I find out about family news which they thought I knew, but never told me because they didn't include me in conversations. I remind them of that and their "I'll tell you later" attitudes. That makes them angry that I point it out to them about that. Oh well...

Wow! u just gave me something to think about! One of the students at my school always complained that she hates being left out at the dinner table. I was cuz her parents are pretty decent signers and I have met them. Now, thanks to your post, I can understand where that student is coming from now.

 

[Animal_Lover]

Two things that happened this week that really got my blood boiling but made me really sit and think differently. Warning...this may be LOOONG!

I cant go into full details and cant state the sex of the child but there was a situation with the hearing parents of a deaf child. The child has a CI and was sent to a deaf school at a later age cuz the child wasnt doing well in the mainstreamed program. The child picked up ASL so fast during the first year at the school where the child goes. Well, the parents made a complaint to the school that the child's speech still hasnt developed despite hours and hours of speech therapy. I cant say why the child is not benefiting from the CI but the one comment that the parents said really got me soooooo pissed off. They said "We cant wait until our child learns how to speak so we can finally communicate with the child and get to know our own child." They expressed their frustrations with difficulties in helping their child with homework and everything else. They said they feel they dont know who their child is. WTF?????

My issue with this is that if the parents want so badly to communicate and get to know their child, WHY CANT they learn sign language?? Even if it is hard or they may not become as fluent..ANY sign language is better than nothing!!!

This really made me think..in the other "hot" thread about CIs and everyone bashing each other, I expressed my feelings about being on the fence with CIs. U know what I just realized? It is not the CI themselves that I am having some anger about...that really "woke me up". I just realized that I am not against CIs themselves at all and I do think they are a great tool that help people. What I just realized that I am against the "fix the child" attitudes that come with it. There are so many parents that I have encountered that are sooo dead set in believing that the CI will solve all their child's hearing and communication issues that they really forget about meeting the child's needs. It is all about meeting their needs and that ticks me off cuz what about meeting the child's deaf needs? What if the child doesnt really benefit from the CI? They forget about ASL or deny ASL to the child and put so much focus on speech and listening skills and as a result as the child has no strong language. I have personally seen that as the older the child gets without any strong language, the more difficult it will become for the child to learn at school.

I grew up oral and thinking about it..it was always me having to work my ass off to meet the communication needs of my hearing family, hearing teachers at my schools, and my hearing friends but not once they considered maybe meeting me half way to meet my deaf needs? That is what I see in those parents and as a result, the child suffers both academically and emotionally if they are unable to meet their hearing needs. I am all for speech and listening skillsbut I would like to see the parents make some sacrifices themselves and learn ASL or at least really put themselves in their child's shoes to think about meeting some of their deaf needs. That was why I applaud those parents who even after getting their child implanted still think of their child's deaf needs.


Now another situation..my husband is hearing as many of u probably know and he is very understanding of my deaf needs so no problem there. Well, yesterday he asked me if I wanted to join him to SEARS so he can get his new tires and I can get my HAs fixed. As a Xmas present, his dad said he will pay for his 4 new tires so this morning while we are getting dressed, he kept telling me to hurry up. I told him to go ahead (I assumed that we were taking 2 cars so we can drop his car off ) and he was like "huh? Arent we going together?" I said "No, I thought we were taking two cars?" Blah blah...turns out he wanted us to go to his parents' house first and then we stay there all day while his car gets fixed. I was like No way! He was like why? I said cuz I cant understand them...and I am not staying there all day while everyone is chatting and I am sitting there twiddling my fingers. He was like "it never bothered u before". I told him that yes I will stay for about 2 hours there to say hi and show myself and will stay longer for family gatherings. That was the first time he wanted us to stay at his parents' all day for no special reason. He can do that but I wont. He was a little disappointed. My mom happened to be online and I told her what happened. U know what my mom said? She said that I was being rude and I should stay there all day out of respect for them and spend time with them. I was SHOCKED cuz I didnt know she saw it that way. She said that when my deaf brother or I leave after 2 hours at a family gathering, it offends everyone.

My issue with this is that I dont want to spend all day sitting there doing nothing while everyone is chatting away. I will stay for 2 hours and will make efforts to chat with everyone but if they dont make the efforts to make sure they are facing me or make sure I know what is going on, then I dont see a reason for me to stay all day. If they did make some effort, sure I will!!! I have accepted that they wont make the efforts and I am not going to force nor demand that from them but I dont think they should expect me to stay all day. When I am there, I honestly feel that they dont even notice that I am there cuz they are so busy just chatting away. For two hours, that is fine with me..I have accepted it but I will NOT accept staying all day. I have other things that I can do and I dont feel that I should make the sacrifice and give up my weekend day just to make an appearance. I think 2 hours is good enough and for my husband and my mom to be disappointed in me for that is really amazing. I was surprised at my husband but later he said he understands and wishes his family would make a little more effort. My mom? That was shocking to me! Growing up, my brother and I were always left out in our family gatherings and we worked hard to make the effort to chat with our family members but they would just stop chatting and jump into other conversations leaving us out. Not once (except for my mom), they would make the efforts to make sure my brother and I know what everyone is talking about. When we would ask them what is going on or whatever, they would say "We will tell u later or it is nothing." Come on!! Fuck that!

My question and my issue is why do I have to compromise myself to make others happy...why cant they meet halfway too? If they dont want to meet halfway, that is fine with me but dont get mad if I dont want to spend all day with them??!!! That to me is just plain rude!

I needed to vent and sorry this is soooo long and rambling but I did some serious thinking about those two incidents and I think I know why many deaf people have anger issues with many hearing people (not all) cuz we are expected to meet their hearing needs but they feel they dont need to meet our deaf needs.

If any of u disagree, fine but that is just how I really feel. On the other hand, I feel better realizing that I really am not on the fence about CIs at all.

Wow...your life is similar to my life...
I know how u felt..
But i have bigger problems than that..

 

[Fly Free]

VERY good vent Shel and i can uddy where u are coming from! i may not be an advocate of CI implanted in very young children -- but the description of the child's parents' behavior was appalling! theyre so selfish!

as for family gathering -- yea i dont stick around for very long -- just eat and say hi and leave cuz i KNOW its the same old BS routine -- always left out even if i try to find out whats up always "ill tell u later" ARGH!

 

[Jolie77]

Very well said and very eloquently put, Shel. I admire that you are thinking on the level with your head rather than letting the emotions get to you.

I can relate to the part where everyone does not sign and only to be slammed in the face with either one of those comment such as "I'll tell you later" or "Never-mind". My mother and sister both are decent signers and they will still do that later down the road when I am at a family gathering or whatever it is. It's like, At first they will "sign" the conversation for me and to get me involved which is fine but they start to get themselves involved on the conversation and "forgets" to keep me in the loop repetitively.

So that is why I try not to stay much longer at any of those family gatherings by myself. When the kids are with me, sure I'll stay a little bit longer because it's not that often when my kids gets to see my family.

As for the CI issue - I have my own opinions to it but I remain reserved towards that since it is always a sticky issue.

 

[Seattle.guy]

I used to be against CIs in children and nowadays I'm neutral about CIs in children.

Same here ...

I third that.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Very and good vent

I know those description, you made out of your feeling to us... I have the same feeling as you.

I find very sad that some parents refuse to learn their children´s language but want them do what they wants.

I beleive to learn to familiar my children´s language as the same as they learn to familiar my language as well.

I shared my experiences for receive the stories from few CI users at 5 weeks spa at other thread few days ago. It´s very sad one...

I´m neutral about CI but I beleive that the parents should accept the fact that their children are deaf, no matter either they wear HA or CI and learn sign then they are able to understand their children by communicate easily. All what I see is the parents see in their children as "baby designer" when they want to fix their ears with tools then they are able to see in their children as "hearing" children.

 

[Miss-Delectable]

Shel, I think you would be surprised to know that even if a parent knows sign language, he-she will still leave you out of conversations in family gatherings. I would know, cos both of my parents sign. Every time there is a family gathering or friends coming over to visit, they never include me in the conversations. But I made it clear to them early in lifetime that I wasn't going to be around if they weren't gonna include me. There were still gaps in communication between me and my parents, mostly because there was not an understanding by my family that they don't include me. Sometimes I find out about family news which they thought I knew, but never told me because they didn't include me in conversations. I remind them of that and their "I'll tell you later" attitudes. That makes them angry that I point it out to them about that. Oh well...

Yep, you're right about that, Kuijfe.
It has happened to me numerous times. I'd have to make a inquiring noise in my throat and direct an questioning look on at the signing members of my family, and that make them realise I didn't know what they're talking about.

My mother'd fill me in on the family news afterward, but not always during the convos.

*sighs*

Yeah, I get peeved at parents who's so selfish about what they want in their deaf child without realising the child's paying the price of their selfishness. I wish so many parents'd keep an open mind when it comes to sign language.

And if they ever wake up to smell the coffee about the benefit of sign language and such, it's usually years late.

No wonder there's still Oralism vs Sign Language. It made me wish that the Milan Conference has never happened. Then maybe the world for the deaf might be pleasanter.

 

[jillio]

OMG shel, I so agreewith you that I could have written what you wrote. This is the thing I have tried to get across the whole time I have been accused of being anti CI on this message board. I am not anti CI at all, just anti abusive and neglectful parents and pro child. Thank you for expressing my feelings!

 

[Cheri]

First I'll like to say, I'm with you, jillio. I understand how you feel.

Secondly, Great vent there Shel!

I understand totally based on how you feel, I feel the same way, There's are some hearing parents believes strongly committed to oral education for their CI children, instead of learning sign language method too. I think they should use of both spoken and signed language. I like Total Communication a lot better than oral education, even had experience in oral education when I was younger and I hated it, it was SO difficult to even catch up with my tasks at school, I was getting far behind than other hearing students while other students were beyond grade level, it wasn't the right place for me at the right time. It's not fair for us deaf to struggling, while parents out there want their children to be able to hear, and enroll their children in public schools district.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

OMG shel, I so agreewith you that I could have written what you wrote. This is the thing I have tried to get across the whole time I have been accused of being anti CI on this message board. I am not anti CI at all, just anti abusive and neglectful parents and pro child. Thank you for expressing my feelings!

*nodding agreement*

I try to understand the parents of CI babies/toddlers but why can´t they do the same when we are for child´s choice? All what they label us is "anti-CI"... Oh Well