Tri-lingual: The gift of Language

[jillio]

I think maybe you need to get your eyes checked. You've been provided the empirical data and quantitative at that. There is obviously no point in providing you with the research when you refuse to read it and see what it's saying.

loml, Cloggy, keep posting the information when you find it. Not everyone is as dumb as jillio seems to think they are.

My eyes are fine. There is no empirical data included in cloggy's zip file, and the majority of it is not even research. Likewise, it includes articles regarding legal issues, hearing stutterers, and hearing college students majoring in communication disorders. Please, please explain to me how any of that can be used to support the use of CS as a tool to increase literacy in deaf children.

 

[loml]

You asked for longitudinal data, you were provided with a sample. Read it and you will see that you have made a mistake with regards to "positive effect".

Once again, I know it's only 7 studies, but like I said before, what Cloggy was so kind to provide to you was not a comprehensive list.

There is still considerable research that CS is beneficial and you have been provided references to some of it. Whether you choose to ignore it or not is completely up to you. Likewise, the research that Cloggy provided has been "academic, cross discipline research, not research done by oralist organizations, thus incorporating the issue of bias." The Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education is hardly an oralist organization.

Europe is often ahead of North America in research and incorporating different ideas so the fact that lots of it is from Europe is not surprising. Sign is not the ONLY viable option. Often with regards to leading research from Europe there is a language barrier. This prevents much of it from being incorporated into North American research.

Unfortunately anyone could supply you with mountains of viable research (such as here) and you would still be unable to admit that sign may not be the only way.

You asked for proof and you were provided it, the fact that you refuse to see it as legitimate is unfortunate but your refusal does not remove that fact that it is there and it works.

owen06 -

 

[DragonYoga]

Jillio, yeah I read them. Yours is (as always) a good post, and a good explanation.


Everyone - Jillio NEVER said Sign is the only viable option. She is asking for hard, concrete proof that she can't argue.

We *KNOW* sign isn't the ONLY option - what works for each child is the best option.


Play nice.

If Jillio is asking for proof, FIND the type of research she is asking for, WITH American academic criteria - that is what she is asking for, NOT articles, summaries, etc.


I have always been led to believe that a longitudal study was over the course of YEARS, with a large pool of participants who meet certain criteria.

Since I'm in the middle of Final Exams at my college, I really don't have the time to find it, but if you can find it for me meeting this criteria:

Over the course of at least 5 years
Participants young prelingually Deaf and/or deafened soon after birth
At least 100 students in this study (more would be better)

The question I want this study to answer is: Does CS help with reading literacy better than any other modes of communication?

If you guys can find that for me, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[jillio]

Jillio, yeah I read them. Yours is (as always) a good post, and a good explanation.


Everyone - Jillio NEVER said Sign is the only viable option. She is asking for hard, concrete proof that she can't argue.

We *KNOW* sign isn't the ONLY option - what works for each child is the best option.


Play nice.

If Jillio is asking for proof, FIND the type of research she is asking for, WITH American academic criteria - that is what she is asking for, NOT articles, summaries, etc.


I have always been led to believe that a longitudal study was over the course of YEARS, with a large pool of participants who meet certain criteria.

Since I'm in the middle of Final Exams at my college, I really don't have the time to find it, but if you can find it for me meeting this criteria:

Over the course of at least 5 years
Participants young prelingually Deaf and/or deafened soon after birth
At least 100 students in this study (more would be better)

The question I want this study to answer is: Does CS help with reading literacy better than any other modes of communication?

If you guys can find that for me, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

You are absolutely correct regarding longitudinal studies. Because of normal differences in developmental stages, we need to look at the effects over time, so that natural variance in gains due to developmental stages are accounted for. For instance, a child in first grade will make larger gains in linguistic areas than will a child in 6th grade due to developmental issues. If one is to support the effectiveness, gains must be demonstrated over time.

And thank you for reading what I have actually stated.

 

[AlleyCat]

Changing the topic a little bit and closer to the original post:

I am deaf and I speak English and I am fluent in ASL. So I've always considered myself bi-lingual. I'm aware that some others (mostly hearings) do not count sign language when counting how many languages you are fluent in. I'm not here to argue that point -- my question is: if I were to know another sign language, such as French Sign Language for example, do people consider that as tri-lingual (English, ASL, and FSL?)

 

[DragonYoga]

AlleyCat, yeah I would consider ithat trilingual. If people don't, then they never considered sign a language. (and they're idiots)

By the way, that's a cute caption you have under your username.

 

[rick48]

Changing the topic a little bit and closer to the original post:

I am deaf and I speak English and I am fluent in ASL. So I've always considered myself bi-lingual. I'm aware that some others (mostly hearings) do not count sign language when counting how many languages you are fluent in. I'm not here to argue that point -- my question is: if I were to know another sign language, such as French Sign Language for example, do people consider that as tri-lingual (English, ASL, and FSL?)

Sure, but its more important what you think.

 

[rick48]

We *KNOW* sign isn't the ONLY option - what works for each child is the best option.

Agreed, there is no one, or best, way to raise any child, even a deaf child. What worked best for my child may not be best for your child. For parents it means being open to different methods and if your child takes you in a direction that is different from the one you had chosen for him or her, be open to accepting that change. It may also mean be that your child may thrive in one method over all others.

All of this is of course easier said than done.
Rick

 

[Boult]

Changing the topic a little bit and closer to the original post:

I am deaf and I speak English and I am fluent in ASL. So I've always considered myself bi-lingual. I'm aware that some others (mostly hearings) do not count sign language when counting how many languages you are fluent in. I'm not here to argue that point -- my question is: if I were to know another sign language, such as French Sign Language for example, do people consider that as tri-lingual (English, ASL, and FSL?)

Yes

 

[deafdyke]

You know.....I just thought of something. Cued Speech is basicly Visual Phonetics. How does phonetics teach syntax, grammar etc? People who learn another language as their second languag, don't nessarily have issues with pronounication etc.....it's more the syntax and grammar.

 

[jillio]

You know.....I just thought of something. Cued Speech is basicly Visual Phonetics. How does phonetics teach syntax, grammar etc? People who learn another language as their second languag, don't nessarily have issues with pronounication etc.....it's more the syntax and grammar.

It doesn't address grammar and syntax issues.

 

[loml]

You know.....I just thought of something. Cued Speech is basicly Visual Phonetics. How does phonetics teach syntax, grammar etc? People who learn another language as their second languag, don't nessarily have issues with pronounication etc.....it's more the syntax and grammar.

deafdyke - Firstly CS is not basically Visual Phonics.

For example, cueing with an infant: all the phonemes are received visually and depending on the level of hearing loss auditorally.

Let me provide for you the linguistic definition of phoneme, from: phoneme - Definitions from Dictionary.com

pho·neme/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[foh-neem] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun Linguistics.
any of a small set of units, usually about 20 to 60 in number, and different for each language, considered to be the basic distinctive units of speech sound by which morphemes, words, and sentences are represented. They are arrived at for any given language by determining which differences in sound function to indicate a difference in meaning, so that in English the difference in sound and meaning between pit and bit is taken to indicate the existence of different labial phonemes, while the difference in sound between the unaspirated p of spun and the aspirated p of pun, since it is never the only distinguishing feature between two different words, is not taken as ground for setting up two different p phonemes in English.

The person who is cueing provides the phonemes of spoken language, (using English as the example through out this post), as a stream of sound rhythmically, using the syntax and grammar of English.

For example:

"Are you enjoying you weather today?"

I would cue to you the phonemes of those exact words in that exact order, even raising my eyebrows. Cueing is done with prosody (stress and intonation) and expression.

I am not a neuroscientist and cannot explain to you the precise pathways or science involved, BUT, for a person who is profoundly deaf and they are receiving phonemes of English via CS, in conjunction with the mouth shapes, this information is processed in the auditory "cortex" of the brain. People who are deaf, and have been raised consistently with an accurate model of phoneme cues for communication, language and literacy develop "inner voices". This has been described to me, (in discussion with adults, with profound hearing loss, who have used cueing as their primary familial communication) when asked for clarification of what exactly this means for them, simply as "hearing the words”. I find this absolutely amazing!


Does this explanation answer you question:

How does phonetics teach syntax, grammar etc?

 

[loml]

Agreed, there is no one, or best, way to raise any child, even a deaf child. What worked best for my child may not be best for your child. For parents it means being open to different methods and if your child takes you in a direction that is different from the one you had chosen for him or her, be open to accepting that change. It may also mean be that your child may thrive in one method over all others.

All of this is of course easier said than done.
Rick

rick48 -

Exactly, and accurate information about all the methods! The method(s) must meet the needs of communication, language and inclusion within each family.

 

[jillio]

deafdyke - Firstly CS is not basically Visual Phonics.

For example, cueing with an infant: all the phonemes are received visually and depending on the level of hearing loss auditorally.

Let me provide for you the linguistic definition of phoneme, from: phoneme - Definitions from Dictionary.com




The person who is cueing provides the phonemes of spoken language, (using English as the example through out this post), as a stream of sound rhythmically, using the syntax and grammar of English.

For example:

"Are you enjoying you weather today?"

I would cue to you the phonemes of those exact words in that exact order, even raising my eyebrows. Cueing is done with prosody (stress and intonation) and expression.

I am not a neuroscientist and cannot explain to you the precise pathways or science involved, BUT, for a person who is profoundly deaf and they are receiving phonemes of English via CS, in conjunction with the mouth shapes, this information is processed in the auditory "cortex" of the brain. People who are deaf, and have been raised consistently with an accurate model of phoneme cues for communication, language and literacy develop "inner voices". This has been described to me, (in discussion with adults, with profound hearing loss, who have used cueing as their primary familial communication) when asked for clarification of what exactly this means for them, simply as "hearing the words”. I find this absolutely amazing!


Does this explanation answer you question:

Phonics is based on phonemes specific to the language being representing. The phonemes being represented by cuing are the same phonemes that can be represented in any phonetic representation of the language. Speech therapists have been writing out phonetic representations for years. The handshape is but yet another visual representation of the phoneme, or sound unit being represented. Therfore, it is visual represnted phonics. Everything you have just posted supports that.

Children who sign also develop "inner voices". You are taking the word "vioce" too literally. It is a psychological concept related to language development and cognitive development and is not dependent upon sound, but on language, age, and development. "Inner vioce" simply represents a thought process and can be accomplished as easily with a manual language as with a spoken language. Likewise, "Inner Voice" is tied not just to literacy, but to Kohlberg's theory of moral reasoning, Piget's theory of cognitive development, and Erikson's theory of lifespan development.

Likewise, phonetic representation does not address issues of grammar and syntax.

 

[loml]

If Jillio is asking for proof, FIND the type of research she is asking for, WITH American academic criteria - that is what she is asking for, NOT articles, summaries, etc.


I have always been led to believe that a longitudal study was over the course of YEARS, with a large pool of participants who meet certain criteria.

Since I'm in the middle of Final Exams at my college, I really don't have the time to find it, but if you can find it for me meeting this criteria:

Over the course of at least 5 years
Participants young prelingually Deaf and/or deafened soon after birth
At least 100 students in this study (more would be better)

The question I want this study to answer is: Does CS help with reading literacy better than any other modes of communication?

If you guys can find that for me, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

DragonYoda - Wouldn't it be wonderful to see all research meet the needs of all imagined/needed parameters! Perhaps you can/should discuss your envisioned research with the Board of Directors of your program that you are currently enrolled in.

Keep us posted!

 

[jillio]

DragonYoda - Wouldn't it be wonderful to see all research meet the needs of all imagined/needed parameters! Perhaps you can/should discuss your envisioned research with the Board of Directors of your program that you are currently enrolled in.

Keep us posted!

If research does not meet the parameters for which it is intended to offer support, it is neither valid nor reliable. That is the whole point. The "research" offered fails to do that, nor is the majority of it even research.

 

[loml]

deafdyke - This is a a comparison of the two systems as found in Fall 2003 - Odyssey. You will see that CS and VP are completely different systems.

Visual Phonics and Cued Speech are different in both structure
and intent. In Cued Speech, sounds are represented by a combination of designated handshapes and positions in conjunction with mouth movements. As defined by the National Cued Speech Association (2000), Cued Speech is a sound-based visual communication system. In English, it requires eight handshapes in four different locations in combination with the natural mouth movements of speech, to visually differentiate the sounds of spoken language
(National Cued Speech Association).


Visual Phonics differentiates each sound by representing it with a different handshape and movement that mimic how the sound is produced. It is a tool to assist in decoding and producing the sounds in the English language. It was not designed to be used in conjunction with spoken conversation. The goal is to clarify the sound symbol relationship between spoken English and print.

clerccenter.gallaudet.edu/Odyssey/Fall2003/see.pdf

 

[deafbajagal]

Agreed, there is no one, or best, way to raise any child, even a deaf child. What worked best for my child may not be best for your child. For parents it means being open to different methods and if your child takes you in a direction that is different from the one you had chosen for him or her, be open to accepting that change. It may also mean be that your child may thrive in one method over all others.

All of this is of course easier said than done.
Rick

That's the best posting I've seen on Alldeaf- ever. You're right on target with this statement.

 

[shel90]

AlleyCat, yeah I would consider ithat trilingual. If people don't, then they never considered sign a language. (and they're idiots)

By the way, that's a cute caption you have under your username.

 

[deafdyke]

loml,
actually what I meant is that Cued Speech is more of a visual Hooked on Phonics approach. I didn't mean that CS and the VP system were the same.
I still don't understand how it teaches syntax and grammer.