Tonal and Intonational Languages

VacationGuy234

VacationGuy234

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How do deaf understand tonal changes to pitch in tonal languages(were the tone of a word's syllables denotes its' meaning)?

How do deaf understand intonational languages(were the tone of an entire word indicates the meaning of a sentence)?

In lip reading, is there a facial expression or a formation of lips I should be looking for which would indicate tone?

Does anyone know of any good literature on this?
 
VacationGuy234 said:
How do deaf understand tonal changes to pitch in tonal languages(were the tone of a word's syllables denotes its' meaning)?

How do deaf understand intonational languages(were the tone of an entire word indicates the meaning of a sentence)?

In lip reading, is there a facial expression or a formation of lips I should be looking for which would indicate tone?

Does anyone know of any good literature on this?
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Hmm... I dunno. I'm a solid lip-reader so I'll try to give a little input.

I'd have to say body language. Especially considering speech. It affects body language more that one would think. Tone has emotion to it.

Intonational languages (new word for me!) are certainly very difficult for me. If a certain word has lots of meanings, I have difficulty carrying on the conversation as lip-reading isn't an exact science. It's still like reading broken English.

____ store ___ ____ ____ on my sale!

I can only latch on to key words and try to decipher to sentence using that. It is a challenge.
 
NitroHonda said:
Hmm... I dunno. I'm a solid lip-reader so I'll try to give a little input.

I'd have to say body language. Especially considering speech. It affects body language more that one would think. Tone has emotion to it.

Intonational languages (new word for me!) are certainly very difficult for me. If a certain word has lots of meanings, I have difficulty carrying on the conversation as lip-reading isn't an exact science. It's still like reading broken English.

____ store ___ ____ ____ on my sale!

I can only latch on to key words and try to decipher to sentence using that. It is a challenge.
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Intonational differences change the meaning of a sentence not the word so you still could decipher much from what is being said, but the topic of the sentence would be hard to grasp. On the other hand, Tonal communication would, in fact, mean the word itself has different meaning.

And, if you were trying to interpret a hybrid of both, it would be a daunting task.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Intonational differences change the meaning of a sentence not the word so you still could decipher much from what is being said, but the topic of the sentence would be hard to grasp. On the other hand, Tonal communication would, in fact, mean the word itself has different meaning.

And, if you were trying to interpret a hybrid of both, it would be a daunting task.
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I don't see what you mean? I'm pretty sure that's what I said (with the exception of me still being able to decipher). I can catch the word but when it changes the meaning of the sentence, I need the blanks filled in.

Did I explain it better or am I still missing it?
 
NitroHonda said:
I don't see what you mean? I'm pretty sure that's what I said (with the exception of me still being able to decipher). I can catch the word but when it changes the meaning of the sentence, I need the blanks filled in.

Did I explain it better or am I still missing it?
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You don't have to fill in anything, unless you translating a whole different sentence so you can understand it. In both case, no words or letters change.

For example, the sentence: "I didn't say YOU stole it" (were emphasis is on the word, "YOU").

Means: The speaker said specifically someone else is the thief.


However, for the same sentence: "I DIDN'T say you stole it" (emphasis on the word, "DIDN'T")

Means: The speaker is not saying specifically who stole it.

The words in the sentence do not change.
 
what is your purpose to get answers from us?


I do not follow you. sorry. all i can think of getting help from speech therapist. :lol:
 
VacationGuy234 said:
You don't have to fill in anything, unless you translating a whole different sentence so you can understand it. In both case, no words or letters change.

For example, the sentence: "I didn't say YOU stole it" (were emphasis is on the word, "YOU").

Means: The speaker said specifically someone else is the thief.


However, for the same sentence: "I DIDN'T say you stole it" (emphasis on the word, "DIDN'T")

Means: The speaker is not saying specifically who stole it.

The words in the sentence do not change.
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Yeah. That's not where I thought you were going.

Seems simple enough then. Placement of tone is easy to decipher. Again... with body language.
 
NitroHonda said:
Yeah. That's not where I thought you were going.

Seems simple enough then. Placement of tone is easy to decipher. Again... with body language.
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So what body language picks up the tone?

Can you cite any literature for this?
 
VacationGuy234 said:
So what body language picks up the tone?

Can you cite any literature for this?
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Just that your body language carries tone, not so much your lips. It can be in the form of a stronger facial expression or body motion. I wish I could help you better with the technical aspects of it.

Not at all. Like I said... it's a new term for me. I've never heard of it. I was just spitballing based on my own personal lip-reading ability. Just giving input, not claims. No more no less.
 
NitroHonda said:
Just that your body language carries tone, not so much your lips. It can be in the form of a stronger facial expression or body motion. I wish I could help you better with the technical aspects of it.

Not at all. Like I said... it's a new term for me. I've never heard of it. I was just spitballing based on my own personal lip-reading ability. Just giving input, not claims. No more no less.
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even a hearing person does it too when emphasizing on a certain word such as a strong gesture and facial expression.
 
NitroHonda said:
Just that your body language carries tone, not so much your lips. It can be in the form of a stronger facial expression or body motion. I wish I could help you better with the technical aspects of it.

Not at all. Like I said... it's a new term for me. I've never heard of it. I was just spitballing based on my own personal lip-reading ability. Just giving input, not claims. No more no less.
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Thanks. You've been very helpful.

Looks like I will have to look into a speech reading course once I get through what I am working on now.
 
Nitrohonda is right. Let's use you're example sentence, a hearing person would use facial expression and body language along with tone to stress the importance of one word, even if they don't realize they're doing it.

I didn't say YOU stole it, when they say you more than likely they would widen their eyes and probably incline their head towards the person, emphasizing you with more than just the tone of their voice.

I DIDN'T say you stole it, when they say the word didn't, there's a good chance they would be shaking their head no, maybe even emphatically, to stress the didn't.
 
ambrosia said:
I didn't say YOU stole it, when they say you more than likely they would widen their eyes and probably incline their head towards the person, emphasizing you with more than just the tone of their voice.
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plus pointing
 
CatCaptions.png


:ugh3:
 
ambrosia said:
Nitrohonda is right. Let's use you're example sentence, a hearing person would use facial expression and body language along with tone to stress the importance of one word, even if they don't realize they're doing it.

I didn't say YOU stole it, when they say you more than likely they would widen their eyes and probably incline their head towards the person, emphasizing you with more than just the tone of their voice.

I DIDN'T say you stole it, when they say the word didn't, there's a good chance they would be shaking their head no, maybe even emphatically, to stress the didn't.
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Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Did you take a course to learn this or did you just obviously pick it up?

Now, the second part of what I am trying to do is to be able to read tone or intonation from written language. Of course, this can only be done if tone symbols are including the the text or enough of the text confirms meaning.

My goal is to be able to properly pronounce words in context.
 
I don't know, just picked it up I guess, it's something everyone does whether they're doing it on purpose or not. In ASL things like that are done on purpose, but all the cues in ASL are done in spoken language too.

Not sure if you could pick up on tonal things in text, although that's what the bold and italics option are for. Somethings that would be tonal cues while speaking are done with punctuation marks in text. Like you can tell if someone is asking a question or making a statement by the way they say the last word in a sentence, the pitch will be different,if it's a question the last word will have lilt?? I don't know how to explain it, but the last word will go up in pitch at the end of it. But in text it would just have a question mark or period at the end of the sentence.
 
ambrosia said:
I don't know, just picked it up I guess, it's something everyone does whether they're doing it on purpose or not. In ASL things like that are done on purpose, but all the cues in ASL are done in spoken language too.

Not sure if you could pick up on tonal things in text, although that's what the bold and italics option are for. Somethings that would be tonal cues while speaking are done with punctuation marks in text. Like you can tell if someone is asking a question or making a statement by the way they say the last word in a sentence, the pitch will be different,if it's a question the last word will have lilt?? I don't know how to explain it, but the last word will go up in pitch at the end of it. But in text it would just have a question mark or period at the end of the sentence.
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Yes, but unfortunately(and contrary to what children are taught in school) punctuation standards are completely lacking. Handbooks about it do not explain it well, basically, you can understand it if you already know it.
And, to be able to pronounce correctly you have to understand it.

I asked a co-worker if I used tone in my voice and he said, yes. He said I sound just like everyone else, although, I can't hear myself clearly at all anymore. Still, it's good to know I still speak fairly well.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Yes, but unfortunately(and contrary to what children are taught in school) punctuation standards are completely lacking. Handbooks about it do not explain it well, basically, you can understand it if you already know it.
And, to be able to pronounce correctly you have to understand it.

I asked a co-worker if I used tone in my voice and he said, yes. He said I sound just like everyone else, although, I can't hear myself clearly at all anymore. Still, it's good to know I still speak fairly well.
Click to expand...

then you can just get a speech therapy.
 
interesting 'hearing culture' question, heck different kinds of singers too, read on Bjork, and opera singers, Very different, that would give you an idea...

also in a 'deaf version' it might be 'elbow regulated' or 'shoulder regulated' or what is the centre space, how flexiable is it , from region to region sign dialects...
but
BUT
i dont like asking this question and Neither Should linguists should be asking, only leave it to d/Deaf to collect data...

just my take...
 
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