The Use of ASL to Support the Development of English and Literacy

[jillio]

likewise. it's not difficult to see through that. it seems these days it's hard for some people to comprehend it.

Nah, not difficult. They just don't want to see it because it blows big holes in their argument.

 

[rockdrummer]

I will make an effort to be more conscientous in posting citations and references. However, inthese posts, I am normaly not quoting a source, or paraphrasing a source, but rather relying on knowledge that has been gained over the past 21 years. In the event that I have quoted or paraphrased from another, I have offered citation. Is anyone really able to offer a direct citation for something they learned 20 years ago? And just because a citation is not provided, is the knowledge invalidated?

20 year old knowledge may in fact be invalid. We learn new things everyday and we also find that sometimes we get it wrong the first time around. Happens all the time.

I really don't think that offering citations will do much to improve the nature of the disucssions, as it has become obvious that those who ask for this information most often do not even bother to follow up when a citation is provided.The intent is not to request a citation for the purpose of learning and gaining new knowledge, but simply to challenge posters to "prove" their position. Nor do those that request citation most often hold themselves to the same standards by providing sources of their own. They simply challenge the opposing view without offering support for their own.

I can't speak for others but for me there is nothing further from the truth.

I believe we have had this discussion before, and I have taken time to offer you resources when it was clear that your intent was to actually take advantage of these resources and expand your knowledge base.

I always take advantage of the resources provided by you and others.

I will make every effort necessary to explain and support anything I have to say when the one asking the question is actually asking a question in order to better understand. However, when the intent is simply to argue, it is a waste of time.

Sometimes arguments are constructive and even get folks to re-think their positions.

I might add, as well, that numerous books were offered as resources in another thread some time ago. I wonder how many have bothered to read any of those books?

You can't just say I offered it in another thread. Do you realize how long it would take someone to search through all of your threads to find the specifics you mention. At least provide a link to the post or the thread you refer to.

 

[rockdrummer]

you're right but be cautious -- researches and sources were funded by the "special interests" i.e. cochlear implant companies and asl-hating groups to boost their investments. it had happened many times in the biochemistry industry. the bastards like cspi had shit all over the researches that came out with unfavorable results which would affect their investments i.e. soybeans wholly. omitting the unfavorable results to make the final research look favorable. that's an oldest trick.

The same can be said for anything then... right? The reason I ask is because I always try to look at both sides before I draw my own personal conclusions. I consider myself to be fair and reasonable and always try to look at things objectivly without bias or any agenda. My only agenda is to be able to help my son become a happy, independant productive member of society.

 

[jillio]

20 year old knowledge may in fact be invalid. We learn new things everyday and we also find that sometimes we get it wrong the first time around. Happens all the time.

I can't speak for others but for me there is nothing further from the truth.
I always take advantage of the resources provided by you and others.Sometimes arguments are constructive and even get folks to re-think their positions.
You can't just say I offered it in another thread. Do you realize how long it would take someone to search through all of your threads to find the specifics you mention. At least provide a link to the post or the thread you refer to.

Yes, 20 year old knowledge may be invalid, by the sythesization that knowwledge, plus the continual update and revision over a period of 20 years means that it is not invalid. I have waht I learned 20 years ago, I have what I learned 5 years ago, and I have what I've learned today. All of that if retained, compared, and synthesized to create the one body of knowledge that draws from all other.

You know what I don't get? I have had to do the work necessary to find any research that I use. No one walks up and hands it to me. It takes time and effort. Time and effort that I am willing to expend for the benefit that it brings....greater knowledge so as to better arrive at logical conclusions. Is someone else wants that knowledge, why is it that they are unwilling to to the work to get it?

And I do believe I exempted you from that category. That is why I am willling to share information with you. The thread of which I speak is one of cloggy's--no doubt posted inthe CI forum, requesting book titles about deafness. It ran a few months ago. I do not have the exact link, nor do I have the time to look for it now. However, there is the information regarding the post, and anyone who wants to can find it relatively easily. Why is it ithat I am expected to do all of the work in finding it? If you're interested, you'll take the time to find it, not ask someone else to do it for you. My time is every bit as valuable as anyone else's.

 

[jillio]

The same can be said for anything then... right? The reason I ask is because I always try to look at both sides before I draw my own personal conclusions. I consider myself to be fair and reasonable and always try to look at things objectivly without bias or any agenda. My only agenda is to be able to help my son become a happy, independant productive member of society.

You can be more trusting of research that was done academically, because it is objective research. They have no economic motive tied to the answer they receive from the study.