The Gospels are not Historical

[Codger]

You must be kidding? Look to Europe, where majority don't practice their religion and yet their violent crime, rape & teen pregancy rates are much lower than it is in USA!

Per capita in many European countries it is higher.
http://www.uncjin.org/Statistics/WCTS/trc000927.pdf (crime)

 

[netrox]

Codger, it doesn't matter what religion is used in other countries - crimes occur everywhere and to blame high rate of crime on lack of God is just baloney. The Middle East has "low crime" rate but it's filled with violence and senseless hatred and you don't have freedom either. Japan doesn't believe in Jesus but its crime is far much lower than USA. Many Asian countries have low crime rates and most don't believe in Jesus either.

-jeff

 

[Swede]

Per capita in many European countries it is higher.
http://www.uncjin.org/Statistics/WCTS/trc000927.pdf (crime)

That one is too general - doesn't give breakdown on violent crime I'm talking about.

This one is better -

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf

One example between France & USA:

France:
completed Homicide 1.78 per 100,000
attempted homicide 1.89 per 100,000
Major assault 0.29 per 100,000
Rape 14.36 per 100,000

USA:
completed homicide 4.55 per 100,000
attempted homicide 2.97 per 100,000
Major assault 329 per 100,000
Rape 32.05 per 100,000

Well??

 

[Codger]

Codger, it doesn't matter what religion is used in other countries - crimes occur everywhere and to blame high rate of crime on lack of God is just baloney. The Middle East has "low crime" rate but it's filled with violence and senseless hatred and you don't have freedom either. Japan doesn't believe in Jesus but its crime is far much lower than USA. Many Asian countries have low crime rates and most don't believe in Jesus either.

-jeff

Obviously people who commit crimes are not practicing the Christian religion, now are they? Look at the composition of the criminals that make up these statistics. Not exactly Fellowship of Christian Athelete candidates, now are they?

 

[The Heretic]

a disingenuous tactic of christians

Codger seems to be confusing causation with correlation in his failed attempts to link christianity with civil behavior in the real world.

 

[Crazymanw00t]

The Bible will tell you if you study the Bible. Go to figure out!

Are you crazy? Go and show the verses to support your points. You can't tell people to find your source. You must show the sources to support your points. You are lacking with that area and you need to improve it.

 

[Reba]

...This one is better -

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf

One example between France & USA:

France:
completed Homicide 1.78 per 100,000
attempted homicide 1.89 per 100,000
Major assault 0.29 per 100,000
Rape 14.36 per 100,000

USA:
completed homicide 4.55 per 100,000
attempted homicide 2.97 per 100,000
Major assault 329 per 100,000
Rape 32.05 per 100,000

Well??

It is still difficult to make comparisons. I looked at that link. Each country has different ways of compiling the stats. For example, your stats from France were listed as "reported completed homicides"; we don't know how many were unreported, or how they are categorized in France, as compared to U.S. stats. Also, they don't have the same reporting years.

The other problem is the survey is from the UN. Oh yeah, they are unbiased and uncorrupted. Cough, cough....

I really like the stat about bribery in Albania. One bribery conviction in the whole country over a three-year period. Yeah, right! Ha, ha.

Other interesting numbers:

Reported completed homicides in atheist Russia one year was 19.8 per 100,000

In "peaceful" Palestine, no per capita homicide stats for the entire three-year period.

In other words, I wouldn't get too excited about any of the UN stats.

 

[Swede]

Nothing can beat my personal experience, after spending 10 days in Paris, I've seen women walking alone at nights... Police are always in a group of 3 or 4 - My wife and I felt much safer there than in major cities in USA. I can't even imagine women walking alone in LA, NYC, Chicago, etc...

It's true that the statistics aren't always accurate, but like I said, I've been there with my own eyes and it certainly supports the general data about France.

 

[Beowulf]

Reported completed homicides in atheist Russia one year was 19.8 per 100,000


Sighhhhh.
Russia does indeed have churches and religions.
I suppose the crime rate in atheist America is about the same.

 

[Swede]

Ummm why does one equate former communist party with atheist? Majority are Catholic, I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong... The primary reason communist party banned Churches is to prevent public gatherings - nothing to do with beliving in God - my opinion. The communist party banned public gatherings because they like to control general population and try to prevent uprising when they're not happy with gov't and if you voice dissent, they usually send you to Gulag! They had so many restrictions on what you can do including travel in the past.

Now, forward to present, the primary reason the murders are high now in Russia is the Mafia trying to take over control - like the way it was in 1920's in America. It's all about making money!

 

[Reba]

Ummm why does one equate former communist party with atheist? Majority are Catholic, I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Sorry, you are wrong. The communist philosophy is atheistic. That is the official party line, although some communist constitutions declare that they have "freedom of religion." Some communist countries (such as China) "allow" state-approved churches.

The primary reason communist party banned Churches is to prevent public gatherings - nothing to do with beliving in God - my opinion.

Sorry, wrong again.

 

[Reba]

Nothing can beat my personal experience, after spending 10 days in Paris, I've seen women walking alone at nights... Police are always in a group of 3 or 4 ....

I am curious. If French people are so non-violent and moral, why do police need to be in groups of 3 or 4?

 

[Beowulf]

Why do OUR police taser and handcuff children?

 

[Codger]

Yeah, I am not too sure I would trust the UN stats. They were so nice to us in S.E. Asia, they told our enemy all of our secret mission plans. How convenient. Got oil? Want food? Here is the breakdown of their seventh report on France.

Europe: France: Crime



Acquitted: 39,875 (2000) [6th of 49]
(per capita): 0.66 per 1000 people per 1000 people [14th of 49]

Adults prosecuted: 54,224 (2000) [19th of 33]
(per capita): 0.90 per 1000 people per 1000 people [30th of 33]

Assault victims: 1.4% (1999)% [8th of 21]

Assaults: 106,484 (2000) [9th of 58]
(per capita): 1.76 per 1000 people per 1000 people [25th of 57]

Believe in police efficiency: 65% [13th of 17]

Bribe payers index: 5.2 [13th of 19]

Bribery victims: 1.3% (1999)% [5th of 17]

Burglaries: 370,993 (2000) [5th of 55]
(per capita): 6.16 per 1000 people per 1000 people [18th of 54]

Car thefts: 301,539 (2000) [4th of 56]
(per capita): 5.01 per 1000 people per 1000 people [6th of 55]

Convicted: 1,069,553 (2000) [4th of 57]
(per capita): 17.77 per 1000 people per 1000 people [7th of 56]

Death penalty - abolition date: 1981 [47th of 69]

Death penalty - last executed: 1977 [15th of 56]

Drug offences: 176.1 per 100,000 people [14th of 36]

Females prosecuted: 7,201 (2000) [17th of 33]
(per capita): 0.11 per 1000 people per 1000 people [29th of 33]

Frauds: 142,583 (2000) [4th of 62]
(per capita): 2.36 per 1000 people per 1000 people [11th of 61]

Illicit drugs: transshipment point for and consumer of South American cocaine, Southwest Asian heroin, and European synthetics

Judges and Magistrates: 6,774 (2000) [3rd of 46]
(per capita): 0.11 per 1000 people per 1000 people [20th of 45]

Murders: 1051 (2000) [12th of 63]
(per capita): 0.01 per 1000 people per 1000 people [41st of 62]

Perception of safety - Burglary: 43% [16th of 17]

Perception of safety - Walking in dark: 77% [11th of 15]

Police: 124,284 (2000) [7th of 48]
(per capita): 2.06 per 1000 people per 1000 people [33rd of 48]

Prisoners: 56,957 prisoners [23rd of 164]
(per $ GDP): 0.03 prisoners per $1 million prisoners per $1000000 [135th of 161]

Prisoners - Female: 3.8%% [73rd of 134]

Prisoners - Foreign prisoners: 21.4%% [25th of 86]

Prisoners - Per capita: 95 per 100,000 people [95th of 164]

Prisoners - Pre-trial detainees: 37.4%% [54th of 143]

Prisoners - Share of prison capacity filled: 124.7%% [55th of 128]

Property crime victims: 8.7% (1999)% [9th of 21]

Rape victims: 0.7% (1999)% [10th of 21]

Rapes: 8,458 (2000) [8th of 66]
(per capita): 0.14 per 1000 people per 1000 people [15th of 65]

Reporting to police: 49% [10th of 17]

Robberies: 24,304 (2000) [16th of 64]
(per capita): 0.40 per 1000 people per 1000 people [38th of 64]

Robbery victims: 1.1% (1999)% [7th of 21]

Software piracy losses: $2,311 [3rd of 84]

Software piracy rate: 45% [58th of 84]

Suicide rates in ages 15-24: 10.3 per 100000 people [9th of 17]

Suicide rates in ages 25-34: 21.3 per 100000 people [3rd of 17]

Suicide rates in ages 35-44: 28.5 per 100000 people [2nd of 17]

Suicide rates in ages 45-54: 28.4 per 100000 people [4th of 17]

Suicide rates in ages 55-64: 26.8 per 100000 people [6th of 17]

Suicide rates in ages 65-74: 31.2 per 100000 people [4th of 17]

Suicide rates in ages above 75: 48.0 per 100000 people [3rd of 17]

Total crime victims: 21.4% (1999)% [13th of 21]

Total crimes: 3,771,849 (2000) [4th of 61]
(per capita): 62.67 per 1000 people per 1000 people [14th of 60]

Unpaid diplomatic parking fines: 144 unpaid parking fines [7th of 116]
(per $ GDP): 9.24e-05 unpaid parking fines per $1 million unpaid parking fines per [76th of 115]
(per capita): 2.39 unpaid parking fines per 1 million people unpaid parking fines per [46th of 116]


Sources: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention); UNICRI (United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute). 2002. Correspondence on data on crime victims. March. Turin.; UN International Crime Victims' Survey; Transparency International; Last updated: 01/04/03; UNODC; CIA World Factbook, December 2003; International Centre for Prison Studies - World Prison Brief.; Software piracy study - Business Software Association of Australia; GECD Society at a Glance 2001, Statistical Annex Table D3.; Mr Lennox-Boyd's reports to the House of Commons; recorded in the House of Commons Hansard for 03-11-92..

 

[Askjo]

Obviously people who commit crimes are not practicing the Christian religion, now are they? Look at the composition of the criminals that make up these statistics. Not exactly Fellowship of Christian Athelete candidates, now are they?

100% agree!

 

[Codger]

Why do OUR police taser and handcuff children?

Teddy bears and lollypops don't work any more? You make it sound like that is SOP with our police forces. Ravensteve? Is that you?

 

[Askjo]

Are you crazy? Go and show the verses to support your points. You can't tell people to find your source. You must show the sources to support your points. You are lacking with that area and you need to improve it.

If I tell them any verses, what will he say?

 

[Banjo]

If I tell them any verses, what will he say?

You won't know what he will say till you tell him some verses.

 

[netrox]

Obviously people who commit crimes are not practicing the Christian religion, now are they? Look at the composition of the criminals that make up these statistics. Not exactly Fellowship of Christian Athelete candidates, now are they?

Oh, nice try. They are STILL Christians because they PROFESS To believe in God whether you like it or not. Many used the Bible to hate people. If an athiest does the crime, you'll blame on athiesm. It only shows how you're not thinking right. Crimes happen regardless of religion.

The communist philosophy is atheistic.

If Jesus was alive today, he would definitely ADVOCATE communism. Jesus told the rich to give up their material wealth and redistribute to the poor. That statment definitely supports communism.

-jeff

 

[Swede]

I am curious. If French people are so non-violent and moral, why do police need to be in groups of 3 or 4?

Simple - to prevent corruption that can happen with single cop or partner in crime.