The Gospels are not Historical

[Askjo]

That's exactly why the Bible isn't taught in schools. It's a religion and goes against the law. If it was a proven fact, it could be taught in schools. The only way we hear things about this would be in mythology, civilization, empires, etc.

To keep the Bible out of schools is to increase the crimes, more profanity, parental fighting, intellectual declining, more drugs, premartial sex, more prisoners, etc.

During the Bible was in schools in 1960's, they were low. Today they are high without the Bible in public schools.

 

[Askjo]

Evolution is not a proven "fact" and yet it is taught in schools.

True! That is unfair.

 

[Askjo]

Evolution is a PROVEN FACT. Creation is a myth. It has NO proof. It has NO evidence whatsoever to support Creation. It simply does not exist. It exists only in a religious book, just like many religious books have creation stories - they have NO proof that they happened.

The evolution theory is based on evidence and facts, independent of religious influences. Just because it is a theory does not make it a "guess." We have a color theory but it doesn't mean color doesn't exist! Color, like evolution, is a fact.

So, yes, evolution should be taught in schools. Creationism has no place in public schools.

-jeff

The scholars defending the evolution showed that the evoution is fact, but another scholar said they always GUESS the date of the earth. 10 millions years or 25 millions years or 4 billions years??? Which one is right??? None of them is right! Interestingly, these scholars defending the evolution said humanity came from the apes, but the scientists against the evolution said that these scholars defending the evolution are absolutely wrong because the impossibility for the humanity gone back to the apes is chromsome. This chromsome is the problem for evolutionists because they CANNOT prove this evidence if it is working together between a humanity and a ape.

The evolutionists CANNOT cure the death. Why? The simple answer is that the sin lives in the humanity since Adam and Eve to today. NO one can cure the death. Any scientists try to cure it, but the test ALWAYS FAIL.

Therefore the Bible is 100% factual.

 

[Codger]

Again, that's still irrelevant. You seem to be saying this:

Unbeliever said X.
Everything unbelievers say is false.
Therefore, X must be false.

This is a fallacy that doesn't actually address the truth of X. No if, and, or but about it.

I think what he was trying to say is that the researcher had a predispositioned bias against the text and was unable to look at it in an unbiased manner. Like a person who hates cats could not make an objective study of cats. They are predisposed to find their point of view valid, even if they have to skew the facts.


researcher believes X
researcher is blinded to Y
researcher ignores anything that disproves X or proves Y.

 

[The Heretic]

An Ad hominem by any other name is still fallacious

I think what he was trying to say is that the researcher had a predispositioned bias against the text and was unable to look at it in an unbiased manner.

That would remain a fallacious argument, because the claim is not being discussed, but the character of the person making the claim. Plus you will have to explain what is an "unbiased" manner. If that's not possible, then there's no way to discern bias. moreover, i'm certain you will have a hard time proving Metzger has an active bias that did get in the way of his claims. Just because the textual critic is not a Christian, doesn't mean we can ignore his claims. That works the other way around, too. Just because somebody is a Christian doesn't mean his claims are truthful.

Focusing on the claims themselves, and bringing evidence to support or dismiss the claim will prove its truth or falsehood. That is called objectivity.

Like a person who hates cats could not make an objective study of cats. They are predisposed to find their point of view valid, even if they have to skew the facts.

If the fact that the person hated cat was proven beyond doubt, then we can cast skepticism on his study. Nonetheless, this is a cartoonish scenario that has nothing to do with how objective studies are performed.

researcher believes X
researcher is blinded to Y
researcher ignores anything that disproves X or proves Y.

This is pure character speculation. Being a textual critic doesn't mean the textual critic also carries a hatred or has a blind eye.

 

[The Heretic]

The cat's out of the bag

In a nutshell, Bruce Metzger isn't an unbeliever, despite askjo's best efforts, for he is an eminent theologian. Metzger is a George L. Collord Professor of New Testament Language and Literature at the Princeton Theological Seminary, and he serves on the board of the American Bible Society.

Despite this information, Askjo may continue in his flailing efforts with a tarred brush and fallacious rhetoric.

 

[netrox]

The evolutionists CANNOT cure the death. Why? The simple answer is that the sin lives in the humanity since Adam and Eve to today. NO one can cure the death. Any scientists try to cure it, but the test ALWAYS FAIL.

Evolutionists are NOT in business to cure death and we will never come to the point where we can prevent death. Death is a natural process of nature. Just tell me, is there a living organism that lives forever? None. But again, neither does a non-living object - nothing lasts forever.

The scholars defending the evolution showed that the evoution is fact, but another scholar said they always GUESS the date of the earth. 10 millions years or 25 millions years or 4 billions years???

Really? I'd like to know that! Evolution gets older and older every time we learn more with new fossil findings. We know for a fact that it ain't 10,000,000 years old! It's WAY much older.

You talk about dinosaurs roaming with humans - we don't have evidence to support that belief and there are NO documents saying that humans saw dinosaurs. Creationists have been caught lying about so called fossils that have been debunked by scientists.

As for our DNA, our DNA tells a lot about our biological history. It shows that we evolved millions of years ago. Creationists have wrong ideas about evolution - they tend to think that evolution happens like this:

non-living -> cell -> fish -> lizard -> monkey -> ape -> human

Evolutionists never said that. We did NOT directly descend from today's apes - chimps are our evolutionary cousins - we both came from extinct primates. Life is constantly evolving, sprouting out different branches of species. Most people don't know that over 90% of species have already became extinct and we now have several new species that never existed while the exitnct species lived!

-jeff

 

[Askjo]

In a nutshell, Bruce Metzger isn't an unbeliever, despite askjo's best efforts, for he is an eminent theologian. Metzger is a George L. Collord Professor of New Testament Language and Literature at the Princeton Theological Seminary, and he serves on the board of the American Bible Society.

Despite this information, Askjo may continue in his flailing efforts with a tarred brush and fallacious rhetoric.

He isn't a believer who serves on the board of the American Bible Society. The ABS is liberal, even United Bible Society where he was one of 3 editors.

 

[The Heretic]

Netrox, your post, while commendable, is nearly indistinguishable from the attached emoticon. There's no reasoning with a dogmatist.

 

[The Heretic]

He isn't a believer who serves on the board of the American Bible Society. The ABS is liberal, even United Bible Society where he was one of 3 editors.

That's still false. You can be a liberal and still be a Christian. You can't just go around and calling people who aren't members of your (pre-defined Christian) group as lying bastards.

 

[Askjo]

Evolutionists are NOT in business to cure death and we will never come to the point where we can prevent death. Death is a natural process of nature. Just tell me, is there a living organism that lives forever? None. But again, neither does a non-living object - nothing lasts forever.

What causes the death?

Really? I'd like to know that! Evolution gets older and older every time we learn more with new fossil findings. We know for a fact that it ain't 10,000,000 years old! It's WAY much older.

Evolutionsts always GUESS..

You talk about dinosaurs roaming with humans - we don't have evidence to support that belief and there are NO documents saying that humans saw dinosaurs. Creationists have been caught lying about so called fossils that have been debunked by scientists.

The dinosaurs were found in the Bible.

We did NOT directly descend from today's apes - chimps are our evolutionary cousins - we both came from extinct primates. Life is constantly evolving, sprouting out different branches of species. Most people don't know that over 90% of species have already became extinct and we now have several new species that never existed while the exitnct species lived!

Cousins? Chimp and humanity are here. Humanity can communicate very well. Chimp's comminucation is limited. Human chromsome and chimp's chromsome are together to fail -- the obvious impossibility!

 

[Askjo]

That's still false. You can be a liberal and still be a Christian. You can't just go around and calling people who aren't members of your (pre-defined Christian) group as lying bastards.

False? You denied my factual evidence.

 

[Deaf258]

Probably the most intelligent thing you've said, to date.

I am surprised I am saying this.. For the first time, I am starting to respect you!

 

[netrox]

What causes the death?

Why are you obsessed with death? Death is not evil nor good - it is something we ALL have to face when our time comes.

Evolutionsts always GUESS..

And you guess the age of the earth even though the Bible is not very clear about the age of the earth! The difference is science seeks to measure age based on what we know. Facts are never set in stone.

The dinosaurs were found in the Bible.

Really? Care to share a verse that mentions huge reptiles.

Cousins? Chimp and humanity are here. Humanity can communicate very well. Chimp's comminucation is limited. Human chromsome and chimp's chromsome are together to fail -- the obvious impossibility!

From the way you talk about "chrosomes", you obviously have no idea what you're talking about! You actually expect your beliefs to be nothing but truths in education? What a scary concept.

-jeff

 

[Askjo]

Why are you obsessed with death? Death is not evil nor good - it is something we ALL have to face when our time comes.

You did not answer my question.

 

[Askjo]

And you guess the age of the earth even though the Bible is not very clear about the age of the earth! The difference is science seeks to measure age based on what we know. Facts are never set in stone.

The Bible will tell you if you study the Bible. Go to figure out!

 

[Askjo]

From the way you talk about "chrosomes", you obviously have no idea what you're talking about! You actually expect your beliefs to be nothing but truths in education? What a scary concept.

You have no solution on this problem.

 

[The Heretic]

Is it criminal to be a dogmatist?

False? You denied my factual evidence.

Wrong again, askjo. Perhaps you have difficulty with English, because you are having problems reading what i wrote and understanding what i mean.

Let's go through this step-by-step, just to explain to you what is factual and what you're wrong on.

1. You asked me if I knew that Bruce Metzger was an unbeliever.
2. I said it was not relevant whether he was an unbeliever or not.
3. You added that you "realized that Metzger did not believe in the bible" and that explained his career in textual criticism.
4. I insisted that his beliefs was not relevant to his claims.
5. I added that Metzger was a theologian, with impeccable credentials from the Princeton Theological Seminary.
6. You repeated yourself and said he wasn't an unbeliever who served on the ABA board.
7. I pointed out your falsehood, that being on the ABA board doesn't mean "unbelief."
8. Somehow, you think i'm denying factual evidence, whereas I'm the one providing them.

You will need a statement from Metzger saying he is an "unbeliever," which doesn't seem to exist, and even so, that does diddley squat about what he said!

 

[RedTwister]

You're ALL IDIOTS!

Take it from one who knows.

Evolution is an extremely valid scientific theory. I could go ON and ON about the scientific proof. For example, chimp DNA and human DNA are 97% IDENTICAL! Human DNA isn't 'pure'... it has scripts for making gills -- from back when our ancestors were fishies!!!

Creationism has absolutely no scientific credibility at all. Just the Bible and a bunch of pastors and their creative imagination.

If you believe in Creationism, then yay for you! You're believing some sort of INTERPRETATION of the bible!

Personally, I believe in the Bible, and I believe that we were created in the image of God. I also believe that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old. Ask yourself this - to God, does time even matter? What is time to God??? 4.6 billion years or an eternity? What does He care?

My philosophy is this: As far as science is CORRECT, it will be 100% compatible with God's grand plan. God is the Master Biologist, the Master Chemist, the Master Architect, the Master Scientist.

Science isn't 100% correct, and every scientist knows that. But, we cannot allow religion to pollute the results of scientific data. Leave science and religion apart... eventually they will grow together as they both become more perfect.

 

[Swede]

To keep the Bible out of schools is to increase the crimes, more profanity, parental fighting, intellectual declining, more drugs, premartial sex, more prisoners, etc.

During the Bible was in schools in 1960's, they were low. Today they are high without the Bible in public schools.

You must be kidding? Look to Europe, where majority don't practice their religion and yet their violent crime, rape & teen pregancy rates are much lower than it is in USA!