The Death Penalty

[Jiro]

So, we have to kill several innocent people and compile those statistics before you support abolition of the death penalty. I wonder if the people who would be wrongly put to death would agree that it is necessary to sacrifice their life in order to convince you?

When computer/machines were born, 10000000000000 people lost their jobs which means probably some people died from it due to being unable to make living to feed their families or whatsoever. As the time goes on - the benefits outweighs the risk. so far... no several innocent people have been wrongfully-executed or to put it liberally (with ACLU) - 39 has been wrongfully executed out of 1099. In fact - we haven't heard any wrongful execution for a long time. so that's fine by me until that result changes. 1 wrongful execution.... or 5 dead innocents brutally murdered by escapee or probationer. The benefit of death penalty outweighs the risk. Like I said previous - if there was 1 wrongful-execution per year consecutively... or 2 in a year... I will join your Million (Wo)Men March to D.C. to demand a reform or something.

It is not easy, however, to convince some that the death penalty is not a deterrent to violent crimes, especially homicide. Recent FBI crime reports show that murder rates in states where the death penalty is in effect has increased over 2%, while the murder rate where the death penalty is not used decreased 5%. The death penalty, unfortunately, is not a deterrent to violent crimes, while at the same time the danger of wrongful convictions is very great where poorly defended accused are more likely to receive the death penalty than those with proper defense. Also since new DNA evidence has been used to overturn murder convictions and free innocent prisoners, there is a stark reminder that our criminal justice system is not fool proof.

tell me something I don't know. I believe I commented on this many many times.

It is not a matter of whether it increases crime or not. It is a matter of whether it serves as a deterrent. You have a distorted view of the intent of punishment.

Oh I'm not gona worry about the effect of death penalty has on deterring or increasing the crimes. My biggest concern goes to the safety of community and the victims' families... and their lives as well. Seems like you value murderer's life more.

Recall Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee pardoning a serial rapist Wayne DuMond? He was released 25 years before his sentence would have ended. After he was released, he raped and murdered a woman in Missouri. Not sure why didn't he get death penalty this time. Oh by the way - Hucakbee is a Southern Baptist minister and he supports death penalty.

Q. Do you think the death penalty is carried out justly in the US? And do you want to see it continued?
A. "I probably dislike the death penalty more than anybody on this stage, but for a very different reason. I've actually had to carry it out, more than any governor in my state's history. I had to carry out the death penalty because that was my job. I did it because I believed, after reading every page of every transcript and everything in that file, it was the only conclusion we could come to. But I didn't enjoy it. And God help the American who somehow has this cavalier attitude about the death penalty and says they support it and they can do it. Let me tell you something from the person whose name had to be put on the document that started the process: It's a necessary part of our criminal justice system for those crimes for which there is no other alternative. But God help the person who ever does it without a conscience and feels the pain of it."

And once again, improbable does not equate to non-existent. Perhaps your refusal to consider ethical considerations is your biggest problem.

Right... I didn't say non-existent, didn't I? I said it's improbable because there has been no case of wrongful execution since 1900s.

No, a group means the individuals making up a specific population, and the values represented by that group collectively. A handful would be those few individuals that hold beliefs different from the group as a whole. The Catholic Church is the defining entity that consitutes the belief of the group as a whole. That is what defines the belief as a group. The few that disagree do not influence the values and norms of the group as a whole. They are simply differing views within the group.

I'm sorry but those groups are held by an individual's view, if not handful, and they gained a large amount of support which is how you have something called "Catholics, as a group, does not support death penalty." Just cuz Pope strongly believes in anti-death penalty does not mean it's what Bible accurately said. Refer to what Cheri said. I have no disrespect for Pope but he's just a mortal man with his own opinion and he can interpret the Bible to whatever he wants.

Perhaps you should rethink carefully.

"Think about back in 1900s where white people STRONGLY believed black people were TRULY inferior - scientifically and genetically. and they strongly believed blacks were Devil's creatures out to rape their women and eat them. Think about back in 1500s where Europeans strongly believed it was God's duty to colonize the world and to enslave the inferior natives. Heck! in old time, they believed women should be a GOOD WIFE and stay in kitchen and bed which you would be doing if Women's Rights weren't recognized! Boy! were they so wrong!!!"

Do you need me to remind you what were Catholics' and Pope's views back in old time? even now? Pope Benedict XVI "strongly reasserted the church's opposition to abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage." (NY Times)

So you're against abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage? just cuz he said so?

They are not the law of life nor the authority of life. Their views change quite a lot in the history. The Bible never changed. The message is same - The Bible, or namely Jesus Christ, just wants you to think with wisdom before you judge somebody. Refer to what Cheri said again - "A group means a handful of people, there are handful of Christians and Catholics who support the death penalty and there are group of handful Catholics and Christians who strongly value life, no ifs, no buts."

So, in effect, it was twisted. You cannot use one dissenting opinion to establish the position of a group as a whole. I referred to group. Jiro referred to individual, and attempted to apply an individual belief to a group. That is definately twisting. In other words, simply because Shapiro supports the death penalty as a Catholic does not mean that Catholics as a group support the death penalty. Please refer to my post regarding the Catholic stance on the death penalty.

Really? one dissenting opinion? I believed I showed you a handful of people who supported death penalty - Judge Scalia, Mike Huckabee, my devout Christian friend, and yes Jesus Christ. Pope is merely a mortal man with scepter and a big fat Mafia ring on his finger. His view is not the representation of God's view. It's just his opinion. He simply wants people to be forgiving and merciful. I used Jesus Christ's teachings to clarify your misunderstanding because well.... he's a friggin' Jesus Christ! He's always right.

And no I will not refer to our post regarding the Catholic stance on the death penalty. I'm sorry but Jesus Christ's teaching overrides Pope's and Catholics' views.

More educated and well informed people than you than you have attempted to interpret Biblical writings. I think I'll rely on their expertise.

That's why I consulted with my friend who is a devout Christian and also a son of minister... or pastor - I forget. By the way - he supported death penalty. Jesus Christ supported it but urged you to refrain yourself from using violence. At no point, however, does Jesus deny that the State has authority to exact capital punishment. No passage in the New Testament disapproves of the death penalty.

And, once again, we are discussing civil law, not religious law. Stick to the topic.

Funny... Didn't I tell you that all you have given me are your high belief and ethic.... not one iota of statistic/studies/polls? I thought I should try to go your way by attacking, analying, correcting your view (belief/ethic) that not all Catholics - "as a group" want to abolish death penalty and that death penalty is not a sin nor a greatest crime to humanity. I still have not been able to understand why do you wish to value murderer's life more and ignore the the victims' and communities' well-being and agony.


In real life, I'm not going to judge you for that. I ultimately respect your stance on death penalty issue. The whole point of forum is to "pretend" we're debating at Congress or Supreme Court on why should or should not keep death penalty. You selectively choose a Catholics group of your similar view and agenda. Because of that, your belief and ethic are unsubstantial and unfounded - which is how you lose the debate. I choose Jesus Christ's teaching and statistics and logics to justify my position. Religion said it's not wrong to do death penalty. Statistics/Graphs/Studies said it helped lower the violent crimes and error rate is improbable. Logic helps saves community's and victims' lives from murderers repeating crimes again.

 

[Jiro]

just something interesting to read...

** The combined aggregate results from the nine surveys conducted from 2001 through 2004 show some interesting, albeit subtle, differences in death penalty support by religious affiliation.


Gallup Poll: Who Supports the Death Penalty?

**Results are based on telephone interviews with 6,498 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted Feb. 19-21, 2001; May 10-14, 2001; Oct. 11-14, 2001; May 6-9, 2002; Oct. 14-17, 2002; May 5-7, 2003; Oct 6-9, 2003; May 2-4, 2004; and Oct. 11-14, 2004. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ± 2 percentage points.

 

[Chase]

I choose Jesus Christ's teaching and statistics and logics to justify my position. Religion said it's not wrong to do death penalty.

Overwhelming rhetoric usually fails in the particulars. Are you saying the historical Jesus recommended the death penalty? Actually, the words handed down to us show he carefully avoided such declarative statements.

If you cite the often repeated theory that he freely gave himself to be crucified as proof he approved of the death penalty, that's a reach the majority of theologians soundly reject. By how he lived his life as a rabbi of the people, that idea is opposite of all he tried to do in the history we know.

When you say "religion said it's not wrong to do death penalty," I believe you that some religions says so, but at least as many religions are opposed. The Catholic church is only one religion opposed to the death penalty.

Again, this emotional issue throws logic to the winds. My point is that when the premise is on shaky ground, then the conclusion is also suspect.

 

[jillio]

When computer/machines were born, 10000000000000 people lost their jobs which means probably some people died from it due to being unable to make living to feed their families or whatsoever. As the time goes on - the benefits outweighs the risk. so far... no several innocent people have been wrongfully-executed or to put it liberally (with ACLU) - 39 has been wrongfully executed out of 1099. In fact - we haven't heard any wrongful execution for a long time. so that's fine by me until that result changes. 1 wrongful execution.... or 5 dead innocents brutally murdered by escapee or probationer. The benefit of death penalty outweighs the risk. Like I said previous - if there was 1 wrongful-execution per year consecutively... or 2 in a year... I will join your Million (Wo)Men March to D.C. to demand a reform or something.


tell me something I don't know. I believe I commented on this many many times.



Oh I'm not gona worry about the effect of death penalty has on deterring or increasing the crimes. My biggest concern goes to the safety of community and the victims' families... and their lives as well. Seems like you value murderer's life more.

Recall Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee pardoning a serial rapist Wayne DuMond? He was released 25 years before his sentence would have ended. After he was released, he raped and murdered a woman in Missouri. Not sure why didn't he get death penalty this time. Oh by the way - Hucakbee is a Southern Baptist minister and he supports death penalty.

Q. Do you think the death penalty is carried out justly in the US? And do you want to see it continued?
A. "I probably dislike the death penalty more than anybody on this stage, but for a very different reason. I've actually had to carry it out, more than any governor in my state's history. I had to carry out the death penalty because that was my job. I did it because I believed, after reading every page of every transcript and everything in that file, it was the only conclusion we could come to. But I didn't enjoy it. And God help the American who somehow has this cavalier attitude about the death penalty and says they support it and they can do it. Let me tell you something from the person whose name had to be put on the document that started the process: It's a necessary part of our criminal justice system for those crimes for which there is no other alternative. But God help the person who ever does it without a conscience and feels the pain of it."


Right... I didn't say non-existent, didn't I? I said it's improbable because there has been no case of wrongful execution since 1900s.


I'm sorry but those groups are held by an individual's view, if not handful, and they gained a large amount of support which is how you have something called "Catholics, as a group, does not support death penalty." Just cuz Pope strongly believes in anti-death penalty does not mean it's what Bible accurately said. Refer to what Cheri said. I have no disrespect for Pope but he's just a mortal man with his own opinion and he can interpret the Bible to whatever he wants.

Perhaps you should rethink carefully.

"Think about back in 1900s where white people STRONGLY believed black people were TRULY inferior - scientifically and genetically. and they strongly believed blacks were Devil's creatures out to rape their women and eat them. Think about back in 1500s where Europeans strongly believed it was God's duty to colonize the world and to enslave the inferior natives. Heck! in old time, they believed women should be a GOOD WIFE and stay in kitchen and bed which you would be doing if Women's Rights weren't recognized! Boy! were they so wrong!!!"

Do you need me to remind you what were Catholics' and Pope's views back in old time? even now? Pope Benedict XVI "strongly reasserted the church's opposition to abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage." (NY Times)

So you're against abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage? just cuz he said so?

They are not the law of life nor the authority of life. Their views change quite a lot in the history. The Bible never changed. The message is same - The Bible, or namely Jesus Christ, just wants you to think with wisdom before you judge somebody. Refer to what Cheri said again - "A group means a handful of people, there are handful of Christians and Catholics who support the death penalty and there are group of handful Catholics and Christians who strongly value life, no ifs, no buts."


Really? one dissenting opinion? I believed I showed you a handful of people who supported death penalty - Judge Scalia, Mike Huckabee, my devout Christian friend, and yes Jesus Christ. Pope is merely a mortal man with scepter and a big fat Mafia ring on his finger. His view is not the representation of God's view. It's just his opinion. He simply wants people to be forgiving and merciful. I used Jesus Christ's teachings to clarify your misunderstanding because well.... he's a friggin' Jesus Christ! He's always right.

And no I will not refer to our post regarding the Catholic stance on the death penalty. I'm sorry but Jesus Christ's teaching overrides Pope's and Catholics' views.


That's why I consulted with my friend who is a devout Christian and also a son of minister... or pastor - I forget. By the way - he supported death penalty. Jesus Christ supported it but urged you to refrain yourself from using violence. At no point, however, does Jesus deny that the State has authority to exact capital punishment. No passage in the New Testament disapproves of the death penalty.


Funny... Didn't I tell you that all you have given me are your high belief and ethic.... not one iota of statistic/studies/polls? I thought I should try to go your way by attacking, analying, correcting your view (belief/ethic) that not all Catholics - "as a group" want to abolish death penalty and that death penalty is not a sin nor a greatest crime to humanity. I still have not been able to understand why do you wish to value murderer's life more and ignore the the victims' and communities' well-being and agony.


In real life, I'm not going to judge you for that. I ultimately respect your stance on death penalty issue. The whole point of forum is to "pretend" we're debating at Congress or Supreme Court on why should or should not keep death penalty. You selectively choose a Catholics group of your similar view and agenda. Because of that, your belief and ethic are unsubstantial and unfounded - which is how you lose the debate. I choose Jesus Christ's teaching and statistics and logics to justify my position. Religion said it's not wrong to do death penalty. Statistics/Graphs/Studies said it helped lower the violent crimes and error rate is improbable. Logic helps saves community's and victims' lives from murderers repeating crimes again.

There you go with all that convoluted logic again. Nothing you are saying makes any sense whatsoever. Do you even try to read the posts to which you are replying, because it is quite obvious from your replies that if you are reading them, you aren't comprehending them. If you are going attempt to debate, you really need to read carefully and respond appropriately. Instead, you are just stringing a bunch of words together in an attempt to dazzle. Unfortunately for you quantity is not a replacement for quality. Try to focus. You might learn something in the process.

 

[Cowpuppy]

oh of course... but Jillio chose to view the statement in some other way that suits her. So it is not "twisted" to one's view but New Testament was rewritten to the point where it's ambiguous - it's open to one's interpretation. Jesus Christ supported death penalty BUT...... he also said to forgive and not to judge. So... nobody's right. It's pretty much up to you to judge somebody's fate.

If he murdered your child, you can either kill him or forgive him. It's up to you! Neither of these choices makes one any less of a man. Neither is sinful. The only sin is that man murdering your child.

you say it's open to one's interpretation........I think you allow that for yourself but don't allow it to others......allow your interpretation but insult others interpretations. Allow yourself to twist..interpret....but someone else's interpretation is 'twisted' in your view...but wrong cuz it ain't your twist.
stick that in your pipe and smoke it

 

[jillio]

When computer/machines were born, 10000000000000 people lost their jobs which means probably some people died from it due to being unable to make living to feed their families or whatsoever. As the time goes on - the benefits outweighs the risk. so far... no several innocent people have been wrongfully-executed or to put it liberally (with ACLU) - 39 has been wrongfully executed out of 1099. In fact - we haven't heard any wrongful execution for a long time. so that's fine by me until that result changes. 1 wrongful execution.... or 5 dead innocents brutally murdered by escapee or probationer. The benefit of death penalty outweighs the risk. Like I said previous - if there was 1 wrongful-execution per year consecutively... or 2 in a year... I will join your Million (Wo)Men March to D.C. to demand a reform or something.


tell me something I don't know. I believe I commented on this many many times.



Oh I'm not gona worry about the effect of death penalty has on deterring or increasing the crimes. My biggest concern goes to the safety of community and the victims' families... and their lives as well. Seems like you value murderer's life more.

Recall Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee pardoning a serial rapist Wayne DuMond? He was released 25 years before his sentence would have ended. After he was released, he raped and murdered a woman in Missouri. Not sure why didn't he get death penalty this time. Oh by the way - Hucakbee is a Southern Baptist minister and he supports death penalty.

Q. Do you think the death penalty is carried out justly in the US? And do you want to see it continued?
A. "I probably dislike the death penalty more than anybody on this stage, but for a very different reason. I've actually had to carry it out, more than any governor in my state's history. I had to carry out the death penalty because that was my job. I did it because I believed, after reading every page of every transcript and everything in that file, it was the only conclusion we could come to. But I didn't enjoy it. And God help the American who somehow has this cavalier attitude about the death penalty and says they support it and they can do it. Let me tell you something from the person whose name had to be put on the document that started the process: It's a necessary part of our criminal justice system for those crimes for which there is no other alternative. But God help the person who ever does it without a conscience and feels the pain of it."


Right... I didn't say non-existent, didn't I? I said it's improbable because there has been no case of wrongful execution since 1900s.


I'm sorry but those groups are held by an individual's view, if not handful, and they gained a large amount of support which is how you have something called "Catholics, as a group, does not support death penalty." Just cuz Pope strongly believes in anti-death penalty does not mean it's what Bible accurately said. Refer to what Cheri said. I have no disrespect for Pope but he's just a mortal man with his own opinion and he can interpret the Bible to whatever he wants.

Perhaps you should rethink carefully.

"Think about back in 1900s where white people STRONGLY believed black people were TRULY inferior - scientifically and genetically. and they strongly believed blacks were Devil's creatures out to rape their women and eat them. Think about back in 1500s where Europeans strongly believed it was God's duty to colonize the world and to enslave the inferior natives. Heck! in old time, they believed women should be a GOOD WIFE and stay in kitchen and bed which you would be doing if Women's Rights weren't recognized! Boy! were they so wrong!!!"

Do you need me to remind you what were Catholics' and Pope's views back in old time? even now? Pope Benedict XVI "strongly reasserted the church's opposition to abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage." (NY Times)

So you're against abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriage? just cuz he said so?

They are not the law of life nor the authority of life. Their views change quite a lot in the history. The Bible never changed. The message is same - The Bible, or namely Jesus Christ, just wants you to think with wisdom before you judge somebody. Refer to what Cheri said again - "A group means a handful of people, there are handful of Christians and Catholics who support the death penalty and there are group of handful Catholics and Christians who strongly value life, no ifs, no buts."


Really? one dissenting opinion? I believed I showed you a handful of people who supported death penalty - Judge Scalia, Mike Huckabee, my devout Christian friend, and yes Jesus Christ. Pope is merely a mortal man with scepter and a big fat Mafia ring on his finger. His view is not the representation of God's view. It's just his opinion. He simply wants people to be forgiving and merciful. I used Jesus Christ's teachings to clarify your misunderstanding because well.... he's a friggin' Jesus Christ! He's always right.

And no I will not refer to our post regarding the Catholic stance on the death penalty. I'm sorry but Jesus Christ's teaching overrides Pope's and Catholics' views.


That's why I consulted with my friend who is a devout Christian and also a son of minister... or pastor - I forget. By the way - he supported death penalty. Jesus Christ supported it but urged you to refrain yourself from using violence. At no point, however, does Jesus deny that the State has authority to exact capital punishment. No passage in the New Testament disapproves of the death penalty.


Funny... Didn't I tell you that all you have given me are your high belief and ethic.... not one iota of statistic/studies/polls? I thought I should try to go your way by attacking, analying, correcting your view (belief/ethic) that not all Catholics - "as a group" want to abolish death penalty and that death penalty is not a sin nor a greatest crime to humanity. I still have not been able to understand why do you wish to value murderer's life more and ignore the the victims' and communities' well-being and agony.


In real life, I'm not going to judge you for that. I ultimately respect your stance on death penalty issue. The whole point of forum is to "pretend" we're debating at Congress or Supreme Court on why should or should not keep death penalty. You selectively choose a Catholics group of your similar view and agenda. Because of that, your belief and ethic are unsubstantial and unfounded - which is how you lose the debate. I choose Jesus Christ's teaching and statistics and logics to justify my position. Religion said it's not wrong to do death penalty. Statistics/Graphs/Studies said it helped lower the violent crimes and error rate is improbable. Logic helps saves community's and victims' lives from murderers repeating crimes again.

I did not selectively choose a "Catholic group of my similar view and agenda." If you had been able to read and comprehend that which you were reading, I posted directly from their publications, the Catholic stance on the issue of the death penalty. Why don't you go back and read it agian, and then you can read my explanation to Cheri on groups and subgroups and individuals and the ways in which group identity affects personal values? If you really concentrate, maybe you will be able to understand it.

And like I said, you can't use religious belief in a discussion of civil law. You have bombed out on all other counts, so now you are attempting to divert using yet another unrealted topic...your religious beliefs. The death penalty is civil law, and not religious law. Once again, try to stay focused and stick to the topic. You lost the debate long ago by being unfocused and bringing up issues that are totlaly irrelevant. Perhaps you think if you are confusing people enough you will sound as if you know what you are talking about. Trust me, it isn't working!

I don't know what Bible you are reading, but I've never read one where Jesus granted any power of civil law to the State....particularly since the judical system as it exists today in the United States wasn't even in existence.

 

[Jiro]

Overwhelming rhetoric usually fails in the particulars. Are you saying the historical Jesus recommended the death penalty? Actually, the words handed down to us show he carefully avoided such declarative statements.

That's exactly what I said. I have discussed lengthly with my friend about interpretations of Old Testament and New Testament. He pointed out that Jesus Christ does support death penalty but he had new interpretations that makes it ambiguous and to reserve your anger. Catholics/Christians choose to believe we should not judge others and we should forgive and such. But it gets lot more complicated so I'll leave it at that.

If you cite the often repeated theory that he freely gave himself to be crucified as proof he approved of the death penalty, that's a reach the majority of theologians soundly reject. By how he lived his life as a rabbi of the people, that idea is opposite of all he tried to do in the history we know.

Again - that's exactly what I said. He's not really trying to ban the death penalty but to tell us to calm down and think carefully of your next course of action. Be Merficul and such.

When you say "religion said it's not wrong to do death penalty," I believe you that some religions says so, but at least as many religions are opposed. The Catholic church is only one religion opposed to the death penalty.

Again, this emotional issue throws logic to the winds. My point is that when the premise is on shaky ground, then the conclusion is also suspect.

exactly right. It's a very very touchy issue. In old time, religions were fine with death penalty just because the Bible permits it. But we're all modernized and sensitized (except me)... things get even more abstract and confusing especially with emotions and education involved. Each history interprets their holy books differently based on different time period. For ie, Old Islam - women must dressed from head to toe and be escorted by male kin. Modern Islam - not anymore. again... we'll leave it at that.

 

[Jiro]

you say it's open to one's interpretation........I think you allow that for yourself but don't allow it to others......allow your interpretation but insult others interpretations. Allow yourself to twist..interpret....but someone else's interpretation is 'twisted' in your view...but wrong cuz it ain't your twist.
stick that in your pipe and smoke it

I think you got it mixed up. It's Jillio who did not allow the interpretation regarding death penalty but said everybody's on same boat and twisted/denied/dismissed our presentations. All of you who are against death penalty have twisted it to your side so I'm merely untwisting it to different perspective.

I already demonstrated to you why I support death penalty and none of you have been able to convince me enough to abolish it. Don't forget that my position is flexible and I can join your side if I'm convinced enough. Just cuz Catholics said so... Pope said so... there's a risk of executing innocent man... that's just not cutting it for me and to most of us.

 

[jillio]

That's exactly what I said. I have discussed lengthly with my friend about interpretations of Old Testament and New Testament. He pointed out that Jesus Christ does support death penalty but he had new interpretations that makes it ambiguous and to reserve your anger. Catholics/Christians choose to believe we should not judge others and we should forgive and such. But it gets lot more complicated so I'll leave it at that.


Again - that's exactly what I said. He's not really trying to ban the death penalty but to tell us to calm down and think carefully of your next course of action. Be Merficul and such.



exactly right. It's a very very touchy issue. In old time, religions were fine with death penalty just because the Bible permits it. But we're all modernized and sensitized (except me)... things get even more abstract and confusing especially with emotions and education involved. Each history interprets their holy books differently based on different time period. For ie, Old Islam - women must dressed from head to toe and be escorted by male kin. Modern Islam - not anymore. again... we'll leave it at that.

You are, once again, making contradictory statements. Jesus supports the death penalty, Jesus doesn't support the death penalty. The Bible supports the death penalty, the Bibile doesn't support the death penalty. Please, choose a side and stick to it. You are all over the place.

And, please, when you refer tothose subscribing to Christian belief systems, it is not necessary to place Catholics in a separate category.

 

[Jiro]

You are, once again, making contradictory statements. Jesus supports the death penalty, Jesus doesn't support the death penalty. The Bible supports the death penalty, the Bibile doesn't support the death penalty. Please, choose a side and stick to it. You are all over the place.

And, please, when you refer tothose subscribing to Christian belief systems, it is not necessary to place Catholics in a separate category.

read my response to Chase's comment to "un-confuse" yourself. Show me where I said that Jesus and Bible does NOT support death penalty.

 

[Jiro]

I did not selectively choose a "Catholic group of my similar view and agenda." If you had been able to read and comprehend that which you were reading, I posted directly from their publications, the Catholic stance on the issue of the death penalty. Why don't you go back and read it agian, and then you can read my explanation to Cheri on groups and subgroups and individuals and the ways in which group identity affects personal values? If you really concentrate, maybe you will be able to understand it.

And like I said, you can't use religious belief in a discussion of civil law. You have bombed out on all other counts, so now you are attempting to divert using yet another unrealted topic...your religious beliefs. The death penalty is civil law, and not religious law. Once again, try to stay focused and stick to the topic. You lost the debate long ago by being unfocused and bringing up issues that are totlaly irrelevant. Perhaps you think if you are confusing people enough you will sound as if you know what you are talking about. Trust me, it isn't working!

I don't know what Bible you are reading, but I've never read one where Jesus granted any power of civil law to the State....particularly since the judical system as it exists today in the United States wasn't even in existence.

There you go with all that convoluted logic again. Nothing you are saying makes any sense whatsoever. Do you even try to read the posts to which you are replying, because it is quite obvious from your replies that if you are reading them, you aren't comprehending them. If you are going attempt to debate, you really need to read carefully and respond appropriately. Instead, you are just stringing a bunch of words together in an attempt to dazzle. Unfortunately for you quantity is not a replacement for quality. Try to focus. You might learn something in the process.

yak yak yak... 17 pages and still no solid argument with statistic and such.... I guess dissecting your belief/ethic didn't work. oh well.... off to see Iron Man! :rl:

 

[jillio]

read my response to Chase's comment to "un-confuse" yourself. Show me where I said that Jesus and Bible does NOT support death penalty.

He pointed out that Jesus Christ does support death penalty but he had new interpretations that makes it ambiguous and to reserve your anger.

 

[jillio]

yak yak yak... 17 pages and still no solid argument with statistic and such.... I guess dissecting your belief/ethic didn't work. oh well.... off to see Iron Man! :rl:

I've supported everything I have made reference to. You, on the other, hand have come up with absolutely nothing. Except a bunch on nonsensical rambling.

 

[shel90]

Thank you but it's same thing.

dictionary.com - data: -noun (used with a plural verb) individual facts, statistics, or items of information:
m-w.com - "data: actual information (as measurements or statistics) used as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or calculation

I just taught my 3rd graders the concept of data...according to the curriculm from the public school, data is information gathered while statistics are the results from the information gathered.

 

[jillio]

I just taught my 3rd graders the concept of data...according to the curriculm from the public school, data is information gathered while statistics are the results from the information gathered.

Thank you.

 

[Jolie77]

Mod's Note:

It's getting hot in here. So with that, The thread's closed for time being.