Support Cindy Sheehan as she camps out in Dumbya's frontyard until....

RebelGirl said:
I think Bush just wanted to take over Iraq and keep the oil.. since he's from Texas so I'm sure he know so much about oil and using our soldiers to get oil for him.
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This statement is just idiotic. The US hasn't had control of the Iraqi oil in over a year. The WTO is the one in charge of its sale and export.
 
RebelGirl said:
Okay, it was just my opinion but it was just how I felt..
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Opinion is fine, but it need always be backed up by facts, else it is not a valid opinion. Those without valid opinions are not worth listening to. Thus, one must be careful when weighing in with an opinion. Thus is the problem of most of the modern media, and unfortunately, too many in the general public. People treat feelings as having the weight of facts. (Not to mention they often flat out ignore the facts...)
 
I find issue with the idea that Cindy is 'using' her sons death for her own purposes. Some have claimed that she only wants to embarrass bush, as if its all about Bush. Or that she just has a need for attention.

Instead of arguing the point, I have found some one who has argued the point much more fluently than i possibly can. I'll post the whole thing, as links don't seem to be read.

Here is a diary entry from a woman called susang on dailykos...

One of the oddest accusations to come out of the Sheehan phenomenon is that this mother is "exploiting" her son's death and her own grief. I've thought about this for a couple of days, and the illogic of this argument is not settling down. In fact, it's becoming more crazy-making the more I think about it.

The logic (if you can call it that) in this "exploitation" argument is thus: If a tragedy befalls an individual and the individual decides to devote every action of her being to ensuring no other human being suffers this same tragedy, she's ... exploiting? Huh?

By this analysis, Christopher Reeves was "exploiting" his injury by advocating for cures for spinal injuries. MADD members are "exploiting" the deaths of their children by pushing for stronger punishments and deterrents of drunk drivers. The Susan G. Komen Foundation is "exploiting" a sister's death by raising money for breast cancer research through its highly successful Race for the Cure series. And so on. You get the drift.

Conversely, it's always represented to me the height of maturity and courage to be able to take a private grief and turn it into something public, something bigger, something more heroic and true than a personal, massive sorrow. I know that I simply will not be able to survive the death of one of my children in any sort of shape that will allow me to become a spokesperson for a cause, no matter how righteous that cause is. As it is, I have trouble sustaining discipline and energy for something as straightforward as blogging a couple of times a week. If one of my kids goes, I assure you that I will crawl into a corner of the universe and emotionally die. You will not hear from me again; I know this well because for 16 years I've had a child living on the edge of this life-death deal with a congenital heart defect and numerous (mostly unsuccessful) surgical interventions. Sorry, I've looked into my soul and I cower in the dark of night. You won't find me as a poster woman for the American Heart Association any time soon. Just breathing will be considered a victory.

How many of us, if faced with the death of a child, would be able to muster the courage, grace and energy to make public appearances on behalf of other people's children? And how many of us could do so while being demonized relentlessly and our private lives examined in detail? Sheehan's words and acts are never going to bring her son back. She knows that. This is by no means a silly woman.

But my God, she's a heroic one. As surely every thinking parent on this planet knows, deep in their hearts.
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yeah the next president should keep his vacation a secert place so no one can bother him or her :roll: cuz that is getting out of control and really I have nothing to say but really if the prez don't want to meet her then she wud probably waste her time staying there til he go back to washington d.c then she stalk him back to washington d.c that is scary tho but ah.. people probably want to get attention for something they believe in and I have nothing against that but really waste of their time and ruining bush's vacation isn't the way to do that ;) if she wanted to ruin his vacation then she can try to rub her face in his face to piss him off but so far.. I admire the way she is staying on his ranch and waiting for prez bush to come out tho.
 
CINDY UNLEASHED: 'THE BIGGEST TERRORIST IN THE WORLD IS GEORGE W. BUSH'
Wed Aug 17 2005 21:51:56 ET

"We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We’re waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"

So declared Cindy Sheehan earlier this year during a rally at San Francisco State University.

Sheehan, who is demanding a second meeting with Bush, stated: "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now."

Sheehan unleashed a foul-mouth tirade on April 27, 2005:

"They’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up..." Sheehan said of the Bush administration.

"If George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bullshit, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free?"

"The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it’s so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."

"We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog shit in Washington, we will impeach all those people."
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http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm
 
bree said:
Her family? As I said before, truth wins out. ...The only family relatives not supporting this are those that DIDN'T know Casey Sheehan.
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Indeed, truth does win out. You might want to check your facts. From this article:
In an Aug. 1 interview with the Daily Kos blog, Cindy Sheehan stated, "I have lost almost every friend that I had before Casey died. My husband and I are separated, because he doesn't support my activities, although he knows the war is a lie."
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From her very own mouth.

Also, Cindy Sheehan has removed herself from the realm of serious debate by treading into the land of the insane and irrational. She is obviously ascribing more power to Bush than the deity has endowed him with:
"My son was killed in 2004. I am not paying my taxes for 2004," Sheehan told an audience of Veterans for Peace. "You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny. ... You give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me [for back taxes] and we'll put this war on trial."
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This insane blathering is an obvious sign of an imbalanced woman. Now, I'm not saying it's her fault; we all deal with grief in different ways. I just find it sad several low-lifes on the left have manipulated such an unstable woman for thier nefarious purposes.
 
Was there a point? Both thedrudge report and worldnetdaily are extremely slanted sources of information. The fact that you refer to them for 'news' shows a failure to accurately judge information.
News sources that are considered reliable, like the AP or reuters, would be much more believable.

Showing a gold star mother who supports the war does not relate to the question. There will always be people on both sides of an issue. Just because one side exists does not invalidate the other.

I find all this talk about 'support the troops' actually ironic, because when an actual Iraq veteran recently ran for congress, his name and service were openly attacked and smeared because he did not support Bushes actions. I guess the support only goes as far as people do not question Bush.

Regardless, that mothers statements is besides the point. Saying 'for freedom' and 'stay the course' does not reflect upon how we are protecting our soldiers. It does not answer how we are going to resolve the problems in Iraq, nor how a 'cakewalk' that was supposed to be over years ago became such a quagmire that we are apparently stuck there indefinitely. It does not answer many questions. If we want our soldiers safe, and the situation in Iraq resolved, we are going to need better answers than 'stay the course'.
Dismissing these questions is the real disservice to the troops.

But lets let a gold star father speak for himself

"Whether he leads them out by putting more troops on the ground or pulling them out - he can't just let it continue," she said.....
"He said the longer it went on the less and less worth it seemed," Palmer said. "They're not doing the job right now. It's not the fault of the troops. It's the fault of the plan."
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*EXCLUSIVE*!!!! worldnetdaily takes statements out of context!!
No wait.. thats standard operating practice. August 1 is before the protests, which began on August 6. Any statements made then relate to a situation that is entirely different from statements after the protest began, you would think?
i guess it doesn't matter to people who just want to smear those disagree.
ksbsnowowl said:
This insane blathering is an obvious sign of an imbalanced woman. Now, I'm not saying it's her fault; we all deal with grief in different ways. I just find it sad several low-lifes on the left have manipulated such an unstable woman for thier nefarious purposes.
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Either apologize right now, or shut up.

I have had it with people who call a gold star mother imbalanced, manipulated, etc. This apparently seems to be the talking point of those against her, as if there is no other way to confront what is being said. All i have been hearing from those against her is the same propaganda talking points as if there is no independent thinking. As if any thinking at all against the war is the mark of an insane person.

Either confront the issue yourself, or stop making yourself look small.

wuerker.gif
 
I'm not supporting Cindy Sheehan. She had her chance to say whatever she wanted to Bush when she first meet him. What's sad is that the media and anti-war/bush zealots is using Cindy. Even Cindy mentioned it was getting out of hand.
 
Also, Cindy Sheehan's thought on how to solve the terrorists attacking the west is pretty bad. Here is what she said:

Cindy Sheehan said:
"And the other thing I want him to tell me is 'just what was the noble cause Casey died for?' Was it freedom and democracy? Bullsh!t! He died for oil. He died to make your friends richer. He died to expand American imperialism in the Middle East. We're not freer here, thanks to your PATRIOT Act. Iraq is not free. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," she exclaimed.
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Here's the link to the report: http://electroniciraq.net/news/2098.shtml

Now what is wrong with that statement? She said "Israel out of Palestine", Palestine IS Israel. She said that the Jewish people need to get out Palestine (Israel). She hasn't a clue to what she's talking about. :smash:
 
bree said:
Was there a point? Both thedrudge report and worldnetdaily are extremely slanted sources of information.
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:nono:

So does DailyKos, mediamatters.org and moveonpac.org are extremely liberal-left slanted sources.
 
RebelGirl said:
... I'm thinking that was Cindy's only child and that's why she's taking it pretty hard...
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Just FYI:

"In addition to his parents, Patrick and Cindy, Sheehan is survived by his brother, Andy, and sisters, Carly and Jane."

Casey was not an only child.
 
bree said:
I find issue with the idea that Cindy is 'using' her sons death for her own purposes. Some have claimed that she only wants to embarrass bush, as if its all about Bush. Or that she just has a need for attention....
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I don't think Cindy wants to "use" her son's death for her own purposes. I think she is having a difficult time dealing with her grief. But I do think that certain groups are using her for their own purposes.
 
bree said:
...I have had it with people who call a gold star mother imbalanced, manipulated, etc....
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I have great sympathy for Cindy Sheehan. I can't even comprehend the pain she must have from the death of her son.

However, experiencing tragedy in life does not automatically make someone "heroic" or a good spokesman or leader. Not every reaction to grief is a positive one. People react in different ways, and not all of them are good.

... As if any thinking at all against the war is the mark of an insane person.
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Suppose Cindy was camping out in Texas, and screaming, "Those rag-head bastards killed my son; I want the President to nuke them all, NOW! I want Bush to bring our soldiers home, and then send bombers over Iraq, Iran, Palestinian camps, and Saudi Arabia, and drop nukes on all of them. They killed my son, and they must pay!"

I wouldn't support those statements any more than her anti-Bush rants. A rant is a rant, regardless of the target.

The poor woman is not rational, and she is being taken advantage of by other people and groups.
 
Reduas said:
:nono:

So does DailyKos, mediamatters.org and moveonpac.org are extremely liberal-left slanted sources.
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None of them pretend to be actual 'fair and balanced' newspapers.
Dailykos is a community blog. I provided links to them as statements of individuals, not news. The current value of a link to dailykos is a direct, uncensored, diary from Cindy Sheehan herself.
For those interested in her story, this has far more value than talking heads who have their own agenda.
Moveonpac had a list of vigils, and helped successfully organize over 1600 vigils across the nation, with an estimated attendance of 60,000 people.

For those interested, such sources have value, but not by pretending to be a 'news source'. It is because they were creating the news. (or debunking false reports, in the case of mediamatters.org)

AGAIN to counter the 'manipulated' propaganda point...
Cindy is PRESIDENT and Co-FOUNDER of Gold Star Families for Peace. She had the idea and took initiative on her OWN to start the protest. She contacted other people and organizations on her own.

Unfortunately for the 'talking point' of being manipulated, Cindy Sheehan has documented her own actions. I mentioned her diary on dailykos. The diary of the first day's protest has all the information about this. http://cindysheehan.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/7/171338/7578
 
nope. I disagree with you. The people who are behind dailykos and mediamatters.org are the liberalistas.

www.dailykos.com advertizes themselves - "Advertise on the top 50+ trafficked Liberal Blogs -- the Liberal Blog Advertising Network."

Still it is slanted sources period.

As I agree with this quotation:

"If you are a liberal, you would never agree with conservatives' truths." - Anonymous
 
About this whole thing...

Does this make sense?

The world runs using the U.S. dollar as a standard. Hypothetical example: Brazil wants the equivalent of 100 US dollars from every country in the world for coffee beans. If the standard world wide was the Euro (which is worth $1.20 US dollars), and Brazil asked for 100 Euros instead, we would be paying $120 instead of $100 for coffee beans.

An easer way to look at this is it is very expensive to buy souvenirs in England and very inexpensive to buy souvenirs Canada.

If we don't influence oil prices in the Middle East, but China and Europe did, and we had to buy oil in "Yen" or Euro-dollars, we would be paying more money. Some experts claim that paying for oil in the equivalent of Yen or Euros would put us in a very bad predicament and would make it hard for us to pay for oil and other things to feed and defend ourselves as well as we do. Hence the latest drive for us to find other sources of power.

Anyone have any thoughts or feelings about this. I'm not showing support or non-support for what we are doing. I am just looking for a logical reason why Bush would keep us there. This is the only one that makes sense to me.
 
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