State of the Union

Reba said:
Yes, they do. They also have Buddhist and Wicca chaplains, among others.

Chaplain : Chaplain & Support : Careers & Jobs : Navy.com


The question is, what about the chaplains who represent religions that view homosexuality as a sin? Will they be allowed to preach, teach, and counsel that view?
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Wicca chaplains? For real? :eek3:

Anyway...

Given that preaching against homosexuality could be seen as a form of discrimination, I think yes, that sort of speech would be done away with, and those chaplains not willing to change would be dismissed. Personally, this seems no different to me than not tolerating discrimination based on sexuality in the federal workplace.

I know that Chaplains are a necessity when the service members are overseas and fighting, but this is what happens when you tinker with Church and State. The Military is a function of the State, and the State cannot tolerate discrimination.
 
Reba said:
There's no such thing as a generic Christian chaplain. A chaplain must:

"Hold an ecclesiastical endorsement from a religious faith organization registered with the Department of Defense (DOD)."

That means, Christian chaplains must belong to specific religions, such as Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Congregationalist, etc.
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That's interesting. Just curious- does that list include the less mainstream Christian denominations, like Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, 7th Day Adventist, etc.?
 
Reba said:
There's no such thing as a generic Christian chaplain. A chaplain must:

"Hold an ecclesiastical endorsement from a religious faith organization registered with the Department of Defense (DOD)."

That means, Christian chaplains must belong to specific religions, such as Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Congregationalist, etc.
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Those are not religions, they are denominations within the Christian faith. Their overall belief of the resurrection of the Christ to save the world from sin is the same, however they differ on church doctrine, methods of worship, and specific interpretations of the Bible.

There are over 380,000 denominations within the United States alone, surely with that many denominations, there can't be that much variation in military Chaplains that claim the Christian faith. There's not a lot of individuality in the military, it's pretty much all uniform. At one point in time wasn't a copy of the New Testament standard issue for all new recruits?
 
Tousi said:
Does this mean the more fundamental chaplains will need to seek the counsel of their liberal counterparts or will it just be easier to be neutral without scuttling the belief? I suppose, thrown into the mix and to further test one's convictions would be, for example, a chaplain having put in 18 years of this work and looking forward to getting to 20 yrs....could they ask for another assignment for the remainder of that time?
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The chaplains will probably be told that preaching against homosexuality is not in keeping with Navy/Army/Air Force policy of diversity and tolerance.

I guess each chaplain will have to follow his own conscience on what to do.

There really isn't any assignment they could request that would get them off the hook, so to speak. Or do you mean request to convert from chaplain to a line officer? Probably not because if they have 18 years in that means they're senior officers. There aren't many positions they could convert to at that stage unless they have some secondary specialty that the military needs. For example, if a chaplain also has a degree in psychology, he might be able to get a billet in the medical field.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Just curious, but do they have chaplains for soldiers of the Muslim faith? Jewish?

If so, then I don't really see a problem with having chaplains that accept homosexuals, just as there are many Christian churches that accept homosexuality as well.
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Firstly, we know that the military chaplaincy has a long tradition of service to the military; their existence basically sprang up from our First Amendment. A chaplain is responsible for meeting the needs of soldiers in his/her own religion but we are a pluralistic society....If a chaplain is unable to provide for Muslim soldiers, I imagine he would look for another chaplain who is Muslim in the same manner he would call for a Catholic or Episcopalian chaplain if need be. Having said that, I would imagine chaplains who feel they would be unable to provide services to gays, would look for another chaplain who could. Of course, I am just speaking from off the top of my head. Perhaps Reba will chime in.
 
I had an overly aggressive soldier threaten to shoot me because of my fundamentalist roots. That is how controversial this whole subject has become. How does one report this soldier to his company's commander?
 
Dixie said:
Those are not religions, they are denominations within the Christian faith. Their overall belief of the resurrection of the Christ to save the world from sin is the same, however they differ on church doctrine, methods of worship, and specific interpretations of the Bible.
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As far as military chaplains are determined, the requirement states that they must belong to a "religious faith organization."

There are over 380,000 denominations within the United States alone, surely with that many denominations, there can't be that much variation in military Chaplains that claim the Christian faith.
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That's not the point. There is no such thing as an organization called "Christian" that ordains or assigns chaplains.

The Army requires:

"You must obtain an ecclesiastical endorsement from your faith group. This endorsement should certify that you are:

* A clergy person in your denomination or faith group."

The Air Force requires:

"Each chaplain is endorsed by his or her own religious group and remains faithful to the tenets of that body."


There's not a lot of individuality in the military, it's pretty much all uniform. At one point in time wasn't a copy of the New Testament standard issue for all new recruits?
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That must have been before my time.
 
Tousi said:
Firstly, we know that the military chaplaincy has a long tradition of service to the military; their existence basically sprang up from our First Amendment. A chaplain is responsible for meeting the needs of soldiers in his/her own religion but we are a pluralistic society....If a chaplain is unable to provide for Muslim soldiers, I imagine he would look for another chaplain who is Muslim in the same manner he would call for a Catholic or Episcopalian chaplain if need be. Having said that, I would imagine chaplains who feel they would be unable to provide services to gays, would look for another chaplain who could. Of course, I am just speaking from off the top of my head. Perhaps Reba will chime in.
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Since there can't be enough chaplains to be in every location for every belief, they can refer military members to civilian clergy, if available. Also, they can counsel people outside of their religion but it has to be agreeable to the member. They can counsel in a "generic" way as far as their conscience will allow.

There are also lay leaders within the military body who can provide spiritual counsel and support to those who seek it.
 
Steinhauer said:
I had an overly aggressive soldier threaten to shoot me because of my fundamentalist roots. That is how controversial this whole subject has become. How does one report this soldier to his company's commander?
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Call him up or write a letter.
 
darkdog said:
That's interesting. Just curious- does that list include the less mainstream Christian denominations, like Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, 7th Day Adventist, etc.?
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If they are willing to provide the clergy and they meet all the other requirements, then they are included. Some religions/denominations don't provide clergy because they feel that warfare is not compatible with their beliefs.
 
Reba said:
Here's an interesting view of Obama's speech:

Obama's State of the Union Was Tantamount to Plagiarism - Alvin Felzenberg (usnews.com)

(It's an opinion piece with a little history mixed in, so it's not to everyone's liking.)
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Reba, as a college composition instructor, I have to say this article is really reaching when it says O's speech was "tantamount to plagiarism." All of the so called plagiarized lines were fairly generic, and so much political buzzwords and catchphrases are just recycled from general political rhetoric besides. If this were my student, I might have made a note for him to make more of an effort to sound unique, but I would not have considered this plagiarism or "turned him into the dean." I can't imagine any of my colleagues would have as well. Taking single, generic lines out of context and then matching them up with other speeches using the power of Google (which is probably what the author did) is not how we identify plagiarism. The author is not giving enough credit to Obama's speech writers; we're talking about some of the most trained writers in the country here. They're not so stupid as to blatantly plagiarize ideas, and if they are... God help us all.

The thing that bothered me the most was Obama's faulty grammar in the "no person in this room would trade places with another nation" line. THAT is unforgivable. :giggle:

The author's bias and negative opinion of Obama really shows through in many instances, and I'm inclined to believe this fueled his accusation of plagiarism, rather than some noble dedication to truth and honesty.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
...The thing that bothered me the most was Obama's faulty grammar in the "no person in this room would trade places with another nation" line. THAT is unforgivable. :giggle:
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You got that right! :lol:
 
Reba said:
If they are willing to provide the clergy and they meet all the other requirements, then they are included. Some religions/denominations don't provide clergy because they feel that warfare is not compatible with their beliefs.
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Oh, Jehovah's Witnesses. Duh! *slaps self*
 
Reba said:
But did it work for you? Isn't that why you wanted to know?
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It has happened within the past 24 hours. I haven't written the letter yet. I am just doubtful anything will result after having read the linked article.

Reba, thank you for letting me know what the proper procedure is.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Reba, as a college composition instructor, I have to say this article is really reaching when it says O's speech was "tantamount to plagiarism." All of the so called plagiarized lines were fairly generic, and so much political buzzwords and catchphrases are just recycled from general political rhetoric besides. If this were my student, I might have made a note for him to make more of an effort to sound unique, but I would not have considered this plagiarism or "turned him into the dean." I can't imagine any of my colleagues would have as well. Taking single, generic lines out of context and then matching them up with other speeches using the power of Google (which is probably what the author did) is not how we identify plagiarism. The author is not giving enough credit to Obama's speech writers; we're talking about some of the most trained writers in the country here. They're not so stupid as to blatantly plagiarize ideas, and if they are... God help us all.

The thing that bothered me the most was Obama's faulty grammar in the "no person in this room would trade places with another nation" line. THAT is unforgivable. :giggle:

The author's bias and negative opinion of Obama really shows through in many instances, and I'm inclined to believe this fueled his accusation of plagiarism, rather than some noble dedication to truth and honesty.
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That makes me wince. JFK said it better when he said "I do not believe any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation." People change places with people, not nations.
 
Steinhauer said:
It has happened within the past 24 hours. I haven't written the letter yet. I am just doubtful anything will result after having read the linked article.

Reba, thank you for letting me know what the proper procedure is.
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If an assault was involved, you can also contact the police and make a charge.

If you don't get a response from the commanding officer, go up the chain of command.
 
Reba said:
If an assault was involved, you can also contact the police and make a charge.

If you don't get a response from the commanding officer, go up the chain of command.
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It wasn't an assault, but it was explicit threatening with menace. All over a silly Evolution/Intelligent Design debate.

The individual as a high hatred for anything involving religion and threatened to shoot me based on my personal views on the subject. He has even threatened to "hunt me down and maul me senseless".

I am a big boy and he would run into problems trying to accomplish that. However, I view him as a loose cannon that needs to be locked up for his own safety as well as the safety of others. You simply cannot represent the Armed Forces and make threats like that. IMHO.

I will follow up and thanks again.
 
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