So Many Different Signs for One Word.

[Buffalo]

Aren't you surprise that we do have regional signs just like the hearing people do have regional accents? I can count about 5 different signs for 'early'.

I remember a lady who visited my school and ask the students what we prefer to see on the tv 1) captions or 2) interpreter that is in the inset of the tv screen. We all voted for captions because of that regional signs (and we need to improve our English).

 

[AquaBlue]

Aren't you surprise that we do have regional signs just like the hearing people do have regional accents? I can count about 5 different signs for 'early'.

I remember a lady who visited my school and ask the students what we prefer to see on the tv 1) captions or 2) interpreter that is in the inset of the tv screen. We all voted for captions because of that regional signs (and we need to improve our English).

A regional sign (word) is not the same as a regional accent. They are two different things. A word (sign or not) is not equal to an accent (a sound).

Five different signs for early...that's crazy.

Maybe Costello should produce separate dictionaries: one per region. Or at least have websites (like ASLPro or ASL Browser) that do the same thing. And if I may be blunt, having different signs per region is not logical because it only brings confusion to the singer(s). What if an Interpreter had to do his/her duty with two folks from different regions. He/she would have to adjust to cater to each person's known signs. That's nuts.

 

[Buffalo]

A regional sign (word) is not the same as a regional accent. They are two different things. A word (sign or not) is not equal to an accent (a sound).

Five different signs for early...that's crazy.

Maybe Costello should produce separate dictionaries: one per region. Or at least have websites (like ASLPro or ASL Browser) that do the same thing. And if I may be blunt, having different signs per region is not logical because it only brings confusion to the singer(s). What if an Interpreter had to do his/her duty with two folks from different regions. He/she would have to adjust to cater to each person's known signs. That's nuts.

I came up with the 'regional sign' because it is the best words I can think of. Do you have a better word(s) for my 'regional sign'?? Regional accent had to do with the way a hearing person said the word so why not regional sign for the way a Deaf person sign the word?

The interpreter would use the locally signs. The deaf person who move to the new place is going to have to learn the local signs fast. I have done that myself when I moved. Hey - hearing people do have trouble understanding the accent from elsewhere like the southern accent. If the southern accent is real bad, I have a very hard time understanding that person.

 

[Phillips]

Also I always watch My Interpreter's read lip with signs!

 

[Anij]

Here's my take on sign variants (regional signs etc) meaning multiple signs for a single gloss meaning.

I think we sometimes thing of variation as a bad thing ... ASL students certainly seem overwhelmed - but actually it's a really GOOD thing. It's a sign that ASL is alive and well ... that it's growing and maturing naturally as a language.

Before people were able to travel around as easily or communicate across wide areas (video phone etc) ASL (as with all languages who develop in semi-isolation) was much more regionalised, as new words were needed ( for technology etc) the local group came up with a sign... used it, accepted it, but was aware that it would be regional.

As the ASL community has become more "North American" individually we're exposed to more regional signed because people travel around more - there's the internet and video phone ... we "see" more differences in our language than we had in the past.

Within Canada there are at least 4 "regions" for Sign - within these there are regional variants because they draw from different historical sign languages ... ASL, LSQ, LSF, BSL etc. because of that we see different signs for things like "OFFICE" or "HOSPITAL" - however theres something interesting that happens as well ... as we interact with the regions sometimes a preference for a sign is found (4 sign choices, becomes 1) ...

It's kind of like when the Canadian $2bill was replaced with a coin ... at first the new coin had many different (spoken, not signed) names "twoonie","toonie","bearback","duece""doub-loon","two-piece" etc ... but with usage we came to call it a "toonie" ... the regional wording because national.

Anyways ... as the North American ASL community continues to mature, we see more continuity - it happens naturally as we see and adopt ASL knowledge from various Schools (Def schools, Colleges etc) as well as Coastal differences, and even Ethnic variations (we see this happen with country and state/city signs too). There used to be a million different signs for "email" (I still fingerspell it, but I'm not the "norm") ... but through usage we see more standardization now.

Now all that being said - regionalization can be frustrating ( just like in english ... is it a shopping cart, a buggy, a trolly, a cart, a pushcart? and ALL those are just in the USA) but I always smile when I see the regional signs ... it shows that we're growing ... that ASL is developing in a natural, healthy way - and THAT is a wonderful thing to see !!!

P.S. just to add an odd personal quirk into the mix ... I sign birthday as "BORN+DAY" except if I only have one hand free ( usually due to holding cake, soda etc while signing happy birthday) If I only have one had free I flip to the birthday sign that starts like "FAVORITE" ~ no real reason other than it's more suited to single handed signing ... LOL

 

[Etoile]

A regional sign (word) is not the same as a regional accent. They are two different things. A word (sign or not) is not equal to an accent (a sound).

There most certainly are accents in ASL. Just about every feature of a spoken language is also present in ASL. While I agree with you that word choice does not mean an accent, that doesn't mean ASL signers don't have accents. Instead of the spoken English accent meaning the sounds you make when speaking, it is the ASL accent meaning the movements you make when signing. A southern drawl means sounds are drawn out, right? Well, some people might sign more slowly, or with a certain looseness, etc. Don't let your beliefs about spoken language (which is made from sounds) color your beliefs about visual language (which is made from movements) - they are still languages.

Five different signs for early...that's crazy.

Not really...how about this?

You can call it soda, pop, cola, co-cola, coke...that's at least five words for an English concept too.

And if I may be blunt, having different signs per region is not logical because it only brings confusion to the singer(s). What if an Interpreter had to do his/her duty with two folks from different regions. He/she would have to adjust to cater to each person's known signs. That's nuts.

I am a VRS interpreter, so I work with people from around the United States every day. Sometimes I have to ask for clarification. It's not that big a deal. Nobody "created" sign language, so it's not "logical" - it's evolved the way all languages evolved. There are certainly many illogical things about English; why do we say "He ran to the store" instead of "He runned to the store?" It's just the way English is, we have weird things. So does ASL.

 

[Chase]

What???? "He runned to the store" is wrong? Just kidding. Excellent post.

Here in my new locale, "He had ran to the store" is popular. I think it's called "urban ultra correct," mixing a past perfect helper with a simple past verb. They also like "She had drank the Pepsi" and "They had swam in the surf." Makes my eyes itch when I see it.

Again, you are so right in trying to calm the hostility to language varieties. As an English teacher, I'm used asking frustrated students to holster their guns and realize millions of people, most of whom are long dead, make the grammar . . . teachers just try to explain it.

In your case, translate it.

 

[Reba]

...Here in my new locale, "He had ran to the store" is popular. I think it's called "urban ultra correct," mixing a past perfect helper with a simple past verb. They also like "She had drank the Pepsi" and "They had swam in the surf." Makes my eyes itch when I see it. ...

Yikes!

 

[Reba]

There most certainly are accents in ASL. Just about every feature of a spoken language is also present in ASL. While I agree with you that word choice does not mean an accent, that doesn't mean ASL signers don't have accents. Instead of the spoken English accent meaning the sounds you make when speaking, it is the ASL accent meaning the movements you make when signing. A southern drawl means sounds are drawn out, right? Well, some people might sign more slowly, or with a certain looseness, etc. Don't let your beliefs about spoken language (which is made from sounds) color your beliefs about visual language (which is made from movements) - they are still languages.

Not really...how about this?

You can call it soda, pop, cola, co-cola, coke...that's at least five words for an English concept too.

I am a VRS interpreter, so I work with people from around the United States every day. Sometimes I have to ask for clarification. It's not that big a deal. Nobody "created" sign language, so it's not "logical" - it's evolved the way all languages evolved. There are certainly many illogical things about English; why do we say "He ran to the store" instead of "He runned to the store?" It's just the way English is, we have weird things. So does ASL.

 

[Reba]

...Maybe Costello should produce separate dictionaries: one per region.

There is a book for regional differences. It's Signs Across America, A Look at Regional Differences in American Sign Language, by Edgar H. Shroyer and Susan P. Shroyer (published by Gallaudet College Press, 1984). Even it's not 100 percent accurate but it's interesting.

... And if I may be blunt, having different signs per region is not logical because it only brings confusion to the singer(s).

Not logical? Living languages are never fully "logical". (Hmm; Latin was pretty logical--where is it now?) The differences aren't enough to shut down communication unless you get hung up on the differences instead of just going with the flow.

What if an Interpreter had to do his/her duty with two folks from different regions. He/she would have to adjust to cater to each person's known signs. That's nuts.

What if? I can almost guarantee that you as a terp will run into regional differences, and you better be ready to adapt. As Etoile posted, VRS terps get connected to clients all over the country. Community terps work with deaf consumers who move to the local area from all over the country (or from other countries). You WILL see regional signs, and you WILL adapt, or you won't make it in the field.

How's that for "blunt"?

 

[jillio]

I came up with the 'regional sign' because it is the best words I can think of. Do you have a better word(s) for my 'regional sign'?? Regional accent had to do with the way a hearing person said the word so why not regional sign for the way a Deaf person sign the word?

The interpreter would use the locally signs. The deaf person who move to the new place is going to have to learn the local signs fast. I have done that myself when I moved. Hey - hearing people do have trouble understanding the accent from elsewhere like the southern accent. If the southern accent is real bad, I have a very hard time understanding that person.

You are correct, Buffalo. The way signs vary by region is the same thing as a dialect in spoken langauge.

 

[jillio]

Here's my take on sign variants (regional signs etc) meaning multiple signs for a single gloss meaning.

I think we sometimes thing of variation as a bad thing ... ASL students certainly seem overwhelmed - but actually it's a really GOOD thing. It's a sign that ASL is alive and well ... that it's growing and maturing naturally as a language.

Before people were able to travel around as easily or communicate across wide areas (video phone etc) ASL (as with all languages who develop in semi-isolation) was much more regionalised, as new words were needed ( for technology etc) the local group came up with a sign... used it, accepted it, but was aware that it would be regional.

As the ASL community has become more "North American" individually we're exposed to more regional signed because people travel around more - there's the internet and video phone ... we "see" more differences in our language than we had in the past.

Within Canada there are at least 4 "regions" for Sign - within these there are regional variants because they draw from different historical sign languages ... ASL, LSQ, LSF, BSL etc. because of that we see different signs for things like "OFFICE" or "HOSPITAL" - however theres something interesting that happens as well ... as we interact with the regions sometimes a preference for a sign is found (4 sign choices, becomes 1) ...

It's kind of like when the Canadian $2bill was replaced with a coin ... at first the new coin had many different (spoken, not signed) names "twoonie","toonie","bearback","duece""doub-loon","two-piece" etc ... but with usage we came to call it a "toonie" ... the regional wording because national.

Anyways ... as the North American ASL community continues to mature, we see more continuity - it happens naturally as we see and adopt ASL knowledge from various Schools (Def schools, Colleges etc) as well as Coastal differences, and even Ethnic variations (we see this happen with country and state/city signs too). There used to be a million different signs for "email" (I still fingerspell it, but I'm not the "norm") ... but through usage we see more standardization now.

Now all that being said - regionalization can be frustrating ( just like in english ... is it a shopping cart, a buggy, a trolly, a cart, a pushcart? and ALL those are just in the USA) but I always smile when I see the regional signs ... it shows that we're growing ... that ASL is developing in a natural, healthy way - and THAT is a wonderful thing to see !!!

P.S. just to add an odd personal quirk into the mix ... I sign birthday as "BORN+DAY" except if I only have one hand free ( usually due to holding cake, soda etc while signing happy birthday) If I only have one had free I flip to the birthday sign that starts like "FAVORITE" ~ no real reason other than it's more suited to single handed signing ... LOL

I have also seen birthday signed with the middle finger flicking the area of the heart, as in the heart started to beat.

BTW...very insightful post!

 

[jillio]

There most certainly are accents in ASL. Just about every feature of a spoken language is also present in ASL. While I agree with you that word choice does not mean an accent, that doesn't mean ASL signers don't have accents. Instead of the spoken English accent meaning the sounds you make when speaking, it is the ASL accent meaning the movements you make when signing. A southern drawl means sounds are drawn out, right? Well, some people might sign more slowly, or with a certain looseness, etc. Don't let your beliefs about spoken language (which is made from sounds) color your beliefs about visual language (which is made from movements) - they are still languages.

Not really...how about this?

You can call it soda, pop, cola, co-cola, coke...that's at least five words for an English concept too.
I am a VRS interpreter, so I work with people from around the United States every day. Sometimes I have to ask for clarification. It's not that big a deal. Nobody "created" sign language, so it's not "logical" - it's evolved the way all languages evolved. There are certainly many illogical things about English; why do we say "He ran to the store" instead of "He runned to the store?" It's just the way English is, we have weird things. So does ASL.

Re the bolded statement:LOL! And in middle Tennessee, they call it a "cold drink", only it is pronounced "code" drink.

 

[deafskeptic]

Here's my take on sign variants (regional signs etc) meaning multiple signs for a single gloss meaning.

I think we sometimes thing of variation as a bad thing ... ASL students certainly seem overwhelmed - but actually it's a really GOOD thing. It's a sign that ASL is alive and well ... that it's growing and maturing naturally as a language.

Before people were able to travel around as easily or communicate across wide areas (video phone etc) ASL (as with all languages who develop in semi-isolation) was much more regionalised, as new words were needed ( for technology etc) the local group came up with a sign... used it, accepted it, but was aware that it would be regional.

As the ASL community has become more "North American" individually we're exposed to more regional signed because people travel around more - there's the internet and video phone ... we "see" more differences in our language than we had in the past.

Within Canada there are at least 4 "regions" for Sign - within these there are regional variants because they draw from different historical sign languages ... ASL, LSQ, LSF, BSL etc. because of that we see different signs for things like "OFFICE" or "HOSPITAL" - however theres something interesting that happens as well ... as we interact with the regions sometimes a preference for a sign is found (4 sign choices, becomes 1) ...

It's kind of like when the Canadian $2bill was replaced with a coin ... at first the new coin had many different (spoken, not signed) names "twoonie","toonie","bearback","duece""doub-loon","two-piece" etc ... but with usage we came to call it a "toonie" ... the regional wording because national.

Anyways ... as the North American ASL community continues to mature, we see more continuity - it happens naturally as we see and adopt ASL knowledge from various Schools (Def schools, Colleges etc) as well as Coastal differences, and even Ethnic variations (we see this happen with country and state/city signs too). There used to be a million different signs for "email" (I still fingerspell it, but I'm not the "norm") ... but through usage we see more standardization now.

Now all that being said - regionalization can be frustrating ( just like in english ... is it a shopping cart, a buggy, a trolly, a cart, a pushcart? and ALL those are just in the USA) but I always smile when I see the regional signs ... it shows that we're growing ... that ASL is developing in a natural, healthy way - and THAT is a wonderful thing to see !!!

P.S. just to add an odd personal quirk into the mix ... I sign birthday as "BORN+DAY" except if I only have one hand free ( usually due to holding cake, soda etc while signing happy birthday) If I only have one had free I flip to the birthday sign that starts like "FAVORITE" ~ no real reason other than it's more suited to single handed signing ... LOL

So true. I know 3 or 4 different signs for birthday. I prefer the one where you make the b handshape and then brush your cheek in an up an down direction but most people sign it differently so I have to sign it their way.

Ditto for the ASL sign mean. The one I learned at VSDB is done by twisting curled fingers around your chin to the left. Most deaf don't sign it this way. At MSSD, it was done this way by curling your fingers on both hands and striking the fingers on your non dominant hand with your dominant hand.

 

[Anij]

P.S. sorry for the typos in my post you guys ... way to much studying - I think my brain's fried lol

 

[VamPyroX]

Here's another example - the signs for accident. I know two signs for it and I will use either one of them depending on the context. If I hear a horrific car crash just outside my apt, I will use this sign that uses two thumbs up and fists and then bring together both fists and hit them..

Now if I were to try to reach up to the dish in my self and as I strain to get the dish, I knock it off the shelf and it fell and broke, I'd use this sign that has four fingers together and thumb extended and then slide my hand past my mouth and along my jaw and say Opps that was a accident. I didn't mean to break it.

I remember once a dad who is Deaf (whole family is Deaf) and he showed me how the family signed porch. His daugther just fingerspelled porch while mom signed porch with a bent letter v and moved it from wrist to elbow. Dad signed it in the reverse. I found that very interesting I'm a sucker for anything that's language related.

It's like how hearing pronounce words.. For example, my little sister pronouces the word yeah this way: yeh? My great aunts would pronounce it this way: Yee-aah? So do I. My mother just says yes.

That first sign you mentioned for "accident"... it's also the sign for "challenge".

I've seen some people misunderstand that sign. "What happened?" "Oh, he was challenged in a contest." Later, that person will ask me... "I don't understand why people have bad grammar. That guy told me... 'He was accident in a contest.' I don't get it."

 

[VamPyroX]

P.S. sorry for the typos in my post you guys ... way to much studying - I think my brain's fried lol

Hmm... since you brought up "typos":

I wonder what they should call it when people make a signing mistake?

You type up something and make a mistake. So, it's a TYPE-O... typo.

You sign something and make a mistake. That would be a SIGN-O. So, should we call it a signo?

 

[Anij]

Hmm... since you brought up "typos":

I wonder what they should call it when people make a signing mistake?

You type up something and make a mistake. So, it's a TYPE-O... typo.

You sign something and make a mistake. That would be a SIGN-O. So, should we call it a signo?

lol ... sounds good to me !! - I must REALLY be tired - there's an ASL expression for that and I just can't remember ... ummmm..... it'll probably pop into my head at 3am when I'm trying to sleep ... HELP ? It really has been a long day ...

 

[Schermy]

A regional sign (word) is not the same as a regional accent. They are two different things. A word (sign or not) is not equal to an accent (a sound).

Five different signs for early...that's crazy.

Maybe Costello should produce separate dictionaries: one per region. Or at least have websites (like ASLPro or ASL Browser) that do the same thing. And if I may be blunt, having different signs per region is not logical because it only brings confusion to the singer(s). What if an Interpreter had to do his/her duty with two folks from different regions. He/she would have to adjust to cater to each person's known signs. That's nuts.

I think the main just of it is that regionally there are different signs in a similar way that regionally there are different words for the same word in english. Like in Chicago we get water from the water fountain but in Wisconsin it the Bubbler and in other places it called the water cooler. I would suggest at an ASL student you let go of the "one proper sign" for each word mentality and embrace ASL for what it is, a beautiful living language that will have some variation. As an intp. you will even face times when someone will drop a "home sign" in there or a regional sign and it's your job to either use you close skills to figure it out or to ask the person to clarify what they were saying. That's my two cents. Thanks.

 

[deafskeptic]

That first sign you mentioned for "accident"... it's also the sign for "challenge".

I've seen some people misunderstand that sign. "What happened?" "Oh, he was challenged in a contest." Later, that person will ask me... "I don't understand why people have bad grammar. That guy told me... 'He was accident in a contest.' I don't get it."

Yeah. You're right. If this were to happen to me and the other deaf misunderstood, I'd rephrase this so it's clearer to them.