Paddy Ladd never went to tent city, nor did anyone else who signed the protest letter sent to Gallaudet BOT,they bunged an e-mail to the few in London who tried a tent city, and took no further part. Doug Alker who also signed the letter, was voted out of the RNID in the UK, because he wasn't viewed inclusive enough, he couldn't think further than the signing sector. Americans reported 'leading deaf figures in the UK', in fact they are deaf unknown to most, as they speclaize in the sole BSL area. It's pretty obvious this is a sign protest isn't it ? and why the majority of deaf didn't support it. Fernadez is right ? it is all about not deaf enough,and the ASL user not wanting wider variances in modes at Gallaudet. Whatever the 'qualification' issue is about Fernandez, it is clear the main issue, is her stance to be inclusive, ASL users don't want it. A report on Gallaudet a year or so ago, found that deaf there felt it was more the social aspect at Gallaudet they liked about it, and not the educational aspect, seems we are now getting to the root of these issues... Deaf schools are viewed marvellous places by signing deaf for the same reason (Social interaction), but here they turned out deaf people on par with an 9yr old, the deaf HAVE to get over the idea school isn't for education, it IS. Certainly a University is. In Derby (England), we had a protest there about funding, and it was a straight choice, between better support in the classroom or the college continue funding a deaf social club, they chose the club..... here is the problem.
Searching for Answers at Gallaudet
- Thread starter Miss-Delectable
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I gave my commentary and view, however, your post exhibited a lack of knowledge about what was really going on. I say "was" because it is now over. If you want to believe that that is their mentality, fine, but you are not there talking with people. I have been there and I have talked with people from staff to students to Faculty members. They may not agree with her vision of "a new deaf order" but the number one issue is her leadership style. That is a fact whether you accept that or not.
Style ? please elaborate,without (A) mentioning her late usage of ASL (B) Her abysmal qualifications (And how qualified YOU are to give a view on it), (C) It makes a difference if she spoke, signs, or lip-reads, and......... Is being a Uni president a celebrity contest or something in America ? If so, you better vote for George Clooney or Marlin next time, forget the educational bit...... the protesters have... I cannot see anyone standing next time, why bother ?
Popularity contest? Don't be silly. Not once did anyone raise such an issue, except for you. One more time, the issue was leadership, or rather, her lack of leadership. She is simply the wrong person for Gallaudet. There are plenty of equal or better qualified people who are good leaders who are good candidates for Gallaudet.
You're saying, "forget the educational bit.....the protesters did" is disingenuous. You know that to get the best results from teachers and students requires certain qualities in an administrator. I would say that the protesters did not forget the "educational bit". They were fighting for a better university than what it is now.
You're saying, "forget the educational bit.....the protesters did" is disingenuous. You know that to get the best results from teachers and students requires certain qualities in an administrator. I would say that the protesters did not forget the "educational bit". They were fighting for a better university than what it is now.
VamPyroX
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I heard recently that one of the protesters was an applicant who was turned down for the same job that Jane got. So, this is starting to sound like a personal agenda.
In a way, it's like she poured gas in a fire that wasn't hers.
In a way, it's like she poured gas in a fire that wasn't hers.
Tousi
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Vampy, excuse me but you, from what I have seen so far, are not informed enough about the situation in Washington that gives even the semblance of credence to your statements.
Btw, it was nice of the NTID student reps to send the FSSA a video giving their support to Gallaudet, a "sister" school and some other things like making and sending a lot of ribbons that signify something about the protest.
Btw, it was nice of the NTID student reps to send the FSSA a video giving their support to Gallaudet, a "sister" school and some other things like making and sending a lot of ribbons that signify something about the protest.
While this is seeming interesting between Passivist and friends all arguing, I think one of the reasons that ASL is CONSIDERED a reason (Note I did not say it WAS a reason) for a deaf person's english abiliy is because of the ineffectiveness of interpreters in mainstream school systems of America. There are 21 people in Hamilton County working as interpreters in public schools, and 8 working in internships with Tennessee Temple University. Mary Oxendine, a Deaf parent certified as a CDI with degrees in deaf education, in evaluating them in a surprise inspection run by the CCTRID when the government requested, found only 11 of them understandable, and the interns from TTU scored the highest of them all, despite the fact that they hadn't even finished the training. That and the fact that none of the teachers know how to teach deaf children and sometimes make them work as teacher's aides doesn't help too much. The reason for this is that there is no set requirements for the schools to test the interpreters or require certifications. If you ask me, some of the best english using deaf people I have met were trained, not in a mainstream or oralistic school, but in an "ASL extreme" school. Yes, it is possible for a deaf student to be an ASL only user and know English up, down and sideways. The problem is that the United States HEARING population refuses to provide the necessary tools required to educate EVERY student in the educational system. That is why the Deaf are seeking their own way to learn. And guess what. That is the American way of doing things. If the services provided are not sufficient to finish the job, we all have to provide our own services. ASL is a great median for a Deaf person to learn English. I have seen it done before and will likely see it again, but why yell at the Deaf population here for being unable to do what has been done in a different land where they have all the resources. The reason ASL makes it easier to learn English? Because in order to learn a language, one needs a basis to put it on. Hearies start out hearing English and thati s how we pick it up. Deaf people need to see what they learn, and without ASL to bridge the gap, there is no bridge. Try crossing the Atlantic without a boat to take you across.
Endymion
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On a tangent, you'd be interested in this bit from Marschark, et. al.:
Comprehension of Sign Language Interpreting: Deciphering a Complex Task Situation
Again I don't WANT to be pedantic,but are you or the students who protested QUALIFIED to decide who is hired at the University ? Who are these 'equal' and better-qualified people ? non-ASL using ? hearing ? what ? I fear r they DID forget the educational bit, they stopped lessons happening, and prevented other students by blocking up doors. If this is the 'America Way' I don't support it, who wants to attend a University where a hierarchy exists, and not a hearing one either ? you swap 'hearie' oppressors for ASL ones ? not much of a trade off is it ?
What got up the ASL nose, was Fernandez clearly idenifying where the cause of all our problems are, here, ithin the Dear/deaf worlds. We don't sort ourselves out, there is no chance whatever of sorting mainstream or 'hearies' out, just look atthe terms you are using, they're ALL, divisive. You've lost us the moral high ground, the victory seems somewhat hollow to me...
I am not one of the protesters, and never was. I simply see and understand their point of view. I am debating here, because I think you are wrong about them.
The students were not the only protesters, as you keep on alleging. Never heard of the FSSA? If you don't know that then you are misinformed. This was not just a student protest. The FSSA, together, has the ability to figure out that JKF is not the right person for the job. The search process was rigged to make JKF the next President. You don't need advanced qualifications to figure that out. They have some good ideas for making the next search better, if only the BoT will listen.
JKF, identified some, already well known, problems. Where was her plan to solve them? Oh, I forgot, it was a secret. "I'll solve the problems. Trust me."
The victory seems hollow, because it isn't won yet. That was just one battle.
Curiouser and Curiouser, Jane Identifies problems, but is never given the chance to try solving them, story of the ASL activist life isn't it ? no changes please we are 'Deaf', (and DON'T you forget it). This was the real damage that was done to the community, it reared the ugly head of elitism, the uncomfortability of the 'real of the deaf community' with ASL aspiration. Nope not about Fernandez, not even about the protest, but the deaf-Deaf wars, as you say, a battle won, but now more battles loom and the 'deaf' may get involved at some point, their patience and apathy won't last forever, they ARE the deaf majority, and won't be intimidated as hearies are, or by deaf rights arguments or culture either. It's like that tiger's tail, you are quite safe i.e. until you let it go. We all better hope the HI/'deaf' don't get involved, I hate the site of blood !
As mentioned, Jane didn't say anything new. Anybody could have done the same. Jane failed to lead. When given the chance to convince us she knew what to do, she didn''t take it. She had the chance as Provost and failed. Even if she did become Prez. what makes you think she would have solved the problems? Nothing she has said or done suggests that she knew what needed to be done, other than the words, "I know what needs to be done, but it's a secret, to be revealed later." (my paraphrase of what she said) Now that she's out, will she work to solve the problems in some other capacity? That will reveal whether she has the answers, or not.
So if Fernandez HAD (In your eyes), identified ASL users at Gallaudet were NOT tackling issues of deaf/Dear/Oral divisions seriously, but just wanted an ASL cultural university, you would have backed her ? Even if that meant lesser power to ASL users and equal sharing of Gallaudet's directions with non-signers and non-cultural deaf people too ? (Not forgetting oral users and CI/aid wearers etc too) ? Perhaps she didn't divulge anything to prevent what happened anyway. Hypothetically: If I said look I'm going to sort out for GOOD at Gallaudet this deaf versus Deaf power struggle, (at least at Gally), bang a few heads together, force inclusion whether they want it or not, and lead by example, you would have voted me out too ? Wouldn't the ASL user just see that as them being got at again ? I challenge Galludet protesters to nail their inclusion policies to the mast for us to see... AN ASL cultural uinversity is no icon to anyone else.
Now you're getting off the topic. "If she had..." is a waste of discussion. The fact is that when she had the chance, she didn't.
Yes, I agree that it would be good for the ASL using Deaf leaders to explain more fully how they would deal with "inclusion" and "diversity" I think that is a good idea.
At least you are accepting the fact, which is good to see, but it's no use ASL 'leaders' chatting amongst themselves, that's patronisation, (them deciding whether they will go for inclusion sounds pretty bad doesn't it ?). They have to engage the other deaf too, or no-one will listen to them or what they say. There are no links to set up meetings with other deaf/oralists/lip-readers or the Hearing impaired sectors, has the ASL user the real 'leaders' to make this move ? the ASL user has a LONG way to go, the other sectors already have such links, what's in it now for them to ally with the ASL user is the big queston, and whether the ASL user has really the heart to go for real unity.