residential v. mainstream education - which best?

prayerflag

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Hello to all,

I just joined this great site. My name is John Forshey, hearing. I am a 1st semester ASL Interpreting student. I already have a B.A. with experience in teaching and case management, so the ASL study is an exciting career upgrade for me.

Besides being part of this community, I have an assignment that I think may benefit others as well. I need information on the education background of people on the site. Specifically, if you are Deaf or H/H, did you attend a residential or mainstream school?, What were your likes/dislikes?, What method was used most of the time? (SEE1, oral, TC, etc), what ed. placement would you recommend to parents of a Deaf or H/H child?, what do you think the future of deaf education holds? what were the challenges and benefits of the education style you experienced? etc.

Anyone who can contribute would be my new hero. Hopefully, we all will learn from whatever is contributed. You can be certain that I will cite you as a source if you contribute; if you want to remain anonymous, let me know that too.

Thanks in advance, and I'll be at alldeaf.com often to learn from all of you,

John
 
I am hh was educated mainstream to the max. Meaning regular classes regular school, minimal accomondations.(resource room and accomondations like FM device and preferential seating)
It was kinda neat being mainstreamed. I mean I got to experiance the regular curriculm and compete with hearing kids. HOWEVER, the social scene wasn't that great. I remember thinking in elementary school that i was the only hoh kid in the world who had to wear hearing aids.
I would advise parents of dhh kids to be openminded as to school placement.
I would suggest that they try a split placement initially to see which placement is best for their kid, instead of automaticlly assuming mainstream is the best. It does seem like unless you're a disabilty rights lawyer that the mainstream school will try to get away with providing the least accomondations.....Plus, very often even special ed teachers in the mainstream dont know all that much about teaching kids with more classic disabilites. A lot of times unless you're really bright, kids with more classic disabilites get lumped in with the "Ummmm who's President Bush?" types of kids who are legion in sped.
 
Thanks so much for your insight. I think my post was a little intimidating given all the questions that I asked. The idea of a split placement hadn't occurred to me. Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. If you know anyone else who could supply information such as you did, please encourage them to respond to my thread.

Thanks again,
John
 
There are already many threads on this subject. Every time all participants get very emotional and fights break out.

It might be best if you reviewed those old threads.

Already I am upset with DD's remark,
A lot of times unless you're really bright, kids with more classic disabilites get lumped in with the "Ummmm who's President Bush?" types of kids who are legion in sped
. As an early mainstream student where there was a deaf magnet program, I kind of think some of us who DD is equating with the very slow, really did take a little longer with the oral method. That statement is truly unjust.

DD you are a person with mild hearing loss, and I don't think you really know what it is like to do an oral program when you actually have a bad loss and can't hear.
 
Byrdie714,
Absolutely tell me what you know about homeschooling. I would love to offer insight on that experience to my instructor and my class.

Thanks for your quick response,
prayerflag
 
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Bottesini,
I'm sure you're right about many threads on the subject. I posted my own because it included specific questions assigned by my instructor to be answered. I have only begun exploring. As a 1st semester ASL Interpreting student who is hearing, I am overwhelmed by the quantity, the variety, the emotion, and the depth of the responses I've seen.

I will be reviewing all those other threads as I develop my answers for this assignment, which is technically some form of open book exam. Any perspective you can offer is valuable to me. You mentioned the emotion of the people responding to this issue. In my limited exposure, there is no topic more sensitive in the Deaf/hh community than educational placement and the socialization that does or does not occur based on the choices made.

Thanks for your input - I look forward to more,
prayerflag
 
I was homeschooled due to the fact that both of my parents were medical missionaries and my grandmother was a retired school teacher.

I grew up with 3 other siblings and we all were taught by our grandmother who was from the 'old school' of teaching. However she worked with my mother in using total communication--signing and speaking.

Anywhere we went--I would have a history/government/geography lesson with my father. We travelled extensively throughout the world--spending a week in one location to 3 years in another.

My mother taught us science/biology/and botany. I hated botany with a passion but nevertheless I passed it.

Grandma taught us math/English/ and literature. Again--anytime we travelled to a new country--grandmother would always incorporate the arts--literature into the curriculum as that is what both of my parents did.

Plus we had field trips to visit art museums, historical sights pertaining to that country as well as visit government buildings like the Duma, Knesset, Parliament, etc, etc.

The only thing I didn't like about it was that I couldn't really have long-term friends or that I would get attached to a place and to find out we would have to leave. :(

As for the future of deaf education--i think we are going to see more of a bi-bi approach.
 
Byrdie714,
Exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for - thank you. Tell me if you will: you said you used TC in being homeschooled. What is your hearing status and that of your siblings?

Thanks again,
prayerflag
 
Will have to get back to this later cuz right now I do not even want to think about Deaf Education.

No, I didnt have a bad day at work or anything but I am sorta taking a break from the Deaf Ed threads due to so many arguments with others.

Thanks!
 
Shel90,

As you may have read above, I never cease to be amazed by the level of emotion in the posts I've read so far. I'm only beginning to understand how much you might need a break. Still, may I use some of your posts for info? Because I'm so new to this field, I'm very ignorant and can learn from EVERYONE.

Thanks for responding,
prayerflag
 
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Byrdie714,
Exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for - thank you. Tell me if you will: you said you used TC in being homeschooled. What is your hearing status and that of your siblings?

Thanks again,
prayerflag

We're all deaf and HOH.
 
As an early mainstream student where there was a deaf magnet program, I kind of think some of us who DD is equating with the very slow, really did take a little longer with the oral method. That statement is truly unjust.

DD you are a person with mild hearing loss, and I don't think you really know what it is like to do an oral program when you actually have a bad loss and can't hear.
Huh? You're totally misinterpreting what I meant.
I'm not equating kids who take a little longer to develop speech abilty with MR/slow kids. What I meant by my post is that kids who are in one of those regular school regular classes with accomondations and one of those resource rooms where the teachers don't really have a lot of experiance with kids with more classic disabilites, may not thrive in that type of sittuion b/c they are working so hard to keep up, that they aren't working to their potentional. See what I mean now?
 
Oh and Bott....I don't have a mild loss. I have a moderately severe loss. I do have a mild-moderate loss in my left ear, but for most of my edcuational career (up to jr year) I had a moderately severe loss.
 
Huh? You're totally misinterpreting what I meant.
I'm not equating kids who take a little longer to develop speech abilty with MR/slow kids. What I meant by my post is that kids who are in one of those regular school regular classes with accomondations and one of those resource rooms where the teachers don't really have a lot of experiance with kids with more classic disabilites, may not thrive in that type of sittuion b/c they are working so hard to keep up, that they aren't working to their potentional. See what I mean now?

Yes I do. That is not what I thought you meant. I am relieved.:)
 
Per your request, here's my two cents. It is impossible (and should be) to pick one placement over another.

The placement, regardless of where and what, has to be the placement that is appropriate for that one child based on his/her individualized needs. Unfortunately a lot of emotions and 'philosophies' get in the way - and sometimes as a result, the child is not being placed at the most appropriate educational setting for him/her.

What do I mean by individualized needs? There are many factors that must be considered...
1. Social needs of the child. Does the family have an effective way to communicate with the child? Does the child have opportunities to DIRECTLY socialize with peers? Does the child need direct instruction in social skills?
2. Communication needs of the child.
3. Language needs of the child.
4. Emotional needs. Some children cannot bear to be away from the family unit, so the dorm life may not be the best option. On the other hand, some children thrive in dorm settings because it provides structure that for whatever reasons their own homes do not...etc.
5. Educational needs. Does the child need small group setting? Does the child function on grade level? What kind of support does the child have at home (will parents work with them with homework assignments and with enriching their vocabulary).
6. Medical needs.
7. How much hearing loss does the child actually have?
and so on and so forth.

Other factors to consider - location of the school, quality of education of the school, school's philosophy and management, technology and other resources available, etc.
 
On the other hand, some children thrive in dorm settings because it provides structure that for whatever reasons their own homes do not...etc.
To expand on this...... I do think that kids from inner city "dangerous neighborhoods" or other places where there are not a lot of great resources could really thrive in a dorm setting. I really do think that schools for the deaf should make their staff be more like a healthy family type setting.
Also, the dorm life could be good for kids from suburban schools, especcially if they attend one of those "stepford snobby" style schools.
 
Per your request, here's my two cents. It is impossible (and should be) to pick one placement over another.

The placement, regardless of where and what, has to be the placement that is appropriate for that one child based on his/her individualized needs. Unfortunately a lot of emotions and 'philosophies' get in the way - and sometimes as a result, the child is not being placed at the most appropriate educational setting for him/her.

What do I mean by individualized needs? There are many factors that must be considered...
1. Social needs of the child. Does the family have an effective way to communicate with the child? Does the child have opportunities to DIRECTLY socialize with peers? Does the child need direct instruction in social skills?
2. Communication needs of the child.
3. Language needs of the child.
4. Emotional needs. Some children cannot bear to be away from the family unit, so the dorm life may not be the best option. On the other hand, some children thrive in dorm settings because it provides structure that for whatever reasons their own homes do not...etc.
5. Educational needs. Does the child need small group setting? Does the child function on grade level? What kind of support does the child have at home (will parents work with them with homework assignments and with enriching their vocabulary).
6. Medical needs.
7. How much hearing loss does the child actually have?
and so on and so forth.

Other factors to consider - location of the school, quality of education of the school, school's philosophy and management, technology and other resources available, etc.


Good discussion! And good points made! I am so glad to have found this message board because we all can share our very unique viewpoints. Deaf adults can share their experiences, hearing adults can learn more about deafness, parents of deaf children can share ideas...sometimes we have a hard time thinking from another's perspective, and this message board helps us see things from very different points of view. As a hearing parent of a deaf daughter, I have learned so much from all of you--thanks for the input! :) For years, many "professionals" told me what THEY thought was best for my daughter--I took it all in and made decisions for her based on what I learned from the "professionals"--I mean, I knew NOTHING about deafness before my daughter was diagnosed! So, as a hearing parent new to the world of deafness, I did my best to give my daughter the best resources based on what I learned from the "professionals." Only recently did it even occur to me that MANY of these "professionals" have NEVER been in my position: MOST of them are NOT parents of deaf children! They give lots of advice, but they have never really "been there, done that", know what I mean? Sometimes I scoff at the advice they give--it may sound good on paper, but they truly have NO idea what it is REALLY like for the deaf child or their parents.

Case in point: my daughter would definitely be considered "successful in the mainstream" according to the professionals. However, she is not HAPPY in the mainstream!! The professionals weigh things like grades, educational level, ability to hear/speak in regular schools, etc.--my daughter has "survived" mainstreaming and has "passed" those kinds of standards. BUT--these same professionals just do not seem to understand the social aspects of mainstreaming AT ALL!!!! They seem to think that deaf kids who hear/speak/keep up with their peers are doing fine in the mainstream---they must be completely oblivious to the whole "social structure" in schools, especially middle and high school! Maybe they need to watch a few movies about the labeling and cliquish culture that happens in schools for ALL students--you know: the jocks, the nerds, the outcasts, etc. Adolescence is ALL about labeling each other and putting everyone into "social groups"!! Deaf kids often TRY to "fit in" other groups and "ignore" the fact that they are "deaf"--NOT good for their self-image at all!!!!--no, they should be able to be proud of who they are!! So, whenever there is a deaf student trying to "blend in" in the mainstream, they really aren't "blending in" at all--plus, they are forced to deny who they REALLY are! The fact is: the professionals who "helped" us through the years really just caused us to "deny deafness"--they really encouraged my daughter to just "blend in" and, in essence, "hide her deafness." I didn't understand this at first--my daughter's hearing loss is mostly "severe"--it starts as "moderate" in the low tones, is mostly "severe", and even becomes "profound" in the highest tones--since she wasn't mostly profound and since she hears very well with hearing aids, I didn't see her as "deaf." But now, I am beginning to understand it much better--mostly thanks to my daughter! :) As she hit puberty and began the entire process of "finding herself"--"discovering her identity"--"figuring out who she is"--she now identifies herself as "deaf"--she is a young teenager who is discovering her "deaf identity"--I get it now!!! She longs to be part of a group of people who are "like her"! I don't think that the professionals who gave us advice all of these years understand this AT ALL!!

Having said all of that, I still feel that my daughter is a wonderfully adjusted deaf teenager. She seems to be building more and more self-esteem each day. She truly seems to be happy with who she is--she is deaf, she loves to talk, she loves to listen(especially to loud music!), and she is learning to sign. She just wants to be in an environment where there are many other people "just like her"--she wants friends who are "like her" and she wants to date boys that are "like her." Being in a school where she is the only one "like her" just doesn't work--being "alone in the mainstream" is extremely lonely!! The professionals who don't understand that--well, they more than likely do NOT have deaf children who are feeling "lonely in the mainstream"!! I guess it is easy to give advice when you aren't exactly living through the consequences yourself! Anyway--the professionals who know my daughter just do not understand why she wants to "leave the mainstream"--it is hard to put into words, but they seem to think that she is making the wrong decision--they seem to think that SHE is the "ideal student" for mainstreaming--they seem to think that it is somehow "going backwards" to think of leaving the mainstream to go to a deaf school. They are thinking from a very different perspective than my daughter is thinking!!!! They really do not seem to be considering the social aspects at all!!

So, based on the points made in the post I quoted:

1. Social needs--my deaf daughter wants to go to school with lots of other deaf students--she does NOT want to be "the only one" in the mainstream. My daughter and I have WONDERFUL communication with each other--we are very very close! My daughter communicates very well with other family members. My daughter can communicate well with others in the "hearing world"--however, acceptance of her "differences" sometimes gets in the way--she has lots of acquaintances, but not many good friends who truly accept her just as she is. She needs a best friend!

2. Communication needs--my daughter has mastered the English language very well--she speaks well, she hears well, she reads well, she writes well. Now she is trying to learn ASL as a second language.

3. Language needs--see #2

4. Emotional needs--I have to admit that I have probably "babied" my daughter a bit and she isn't quite as mature and responsible as I would like her to be. When I think of her living in a dorm during the week, I have mixed feelings. She is NOT clingy--she is NOT a homebody--she will probably do just fine away from home during the week. I know some kids who would NOT do well away from home(some even hate to be away overnight!)--I think my daughter will be fine in that respect(me, not so much!!). I think that there are definitely some aspects of dorm life that will teach her to be more responsible and independent(when MOM isn't always there to take care of things!). Still, I only see this as an option at this age(14 and up)--any younger and I do not think I could have "let her go"--I still am having a tough time with the idea at this age!!

5. Educational needs--my daughter is definitely benefitting academically from services provided by a teacher of the deaf--I can only imagine how much better she would do if she had SEVERAL teachers of the deaf working with her! Take this one great TOD and multiply her by 5 or 6 per year? Put my daughter in a small classroom of other deaf students like herself without all of the distractions found in the mainstream? Dealing with a whole school that completely understands the needs of deaf students instead of only a few people within a large public school system? Honestly, I can only see GOOD things when looking at it that way! And, when looking at the curriculum and academics at the deaf schools we are considering--MUCH MUCH better than our current public school system!! My daughter will have access to a MUCH better education at the deaf schools we are considering! I compared curriculum, materials, expectations--I truly feel that the deaf schools we are considering are MUCH better schools than the public school system we are currently in!! And they are NOT dealing with overcrowding and other issues that our public schools are dealing with right now. In a deaf school, my daughter will have access to MUCH smaller classrooms, better instructional materials, and other extra things that our public schools can NOT give her. I truly feel that SOME deaf schools(the ones we are considering) are BETTER than many public schools AND many private schools!! Some deaf schools are giving laptop computers to high school students--not happening in our local public schools anytime soon!! And this is just one example of the difference!

6. Medical needs--my daughter doesn't have any special medical needs beyond audiologial needs. Some deaf schools have EXCELLENT audiology departments--I feel that my daughter's audiological needs will be served MUCH better at a deaf school than through our local public school system.

7. Hearing loss--moderate in the low tones, severe in most speech tones, profound in the high tones. Digital hearing aids seem to bring her hearing up to the point that she hears quite well--not perfect, but well enough to hear MOST things in her environment. She really LOVES to hear through hearing aids and doesn't like to be without them. She DOES use lots of visual cues--especially lip reading--but she also gets a LOT out of her residual hearing.

Other: Location of School--we are trying to move our family within a hour or two of a good deaf school(I couldn't stand to be further away than that!!), Quality of Education--I am very impressed with the high quality of education available at our chosen deaf schools, Philosophy and Management--I am impressed with this as well, Technology and Other Resources--excellent!--much better than what is offered in many public schools!!

So--to those professionals out there that seem to think that mainstreaming is ALWAYS best--think again!! Sometimes what is offered at a GOOD deaf school is a MUCH better option than what is offered at a deaf student's local public school. And the socialization factor is a HUGE consideration!! Hmm--I know this isn't REALLY possible, but I almost wish that it was a REQUIREMENT for the professionals who advise parents of deaf children to BE parents of deaf children!! They can advise all they want, but until they have BEEN THERE, they REALLY don't know!!!!! And when they sit back and pronounce "THIS is best" or "THAT is best" but have NEVER been a parent making those decisions--how do they REALLY know?!! Walk a mile in our shoes--AND, to those who ARE deaf and grew up with parents who had to make these decisions for you--just know that it was TOUGH to know what to do!! Especially HEARING parents with NO experience with deafness!! All we know is what the "professionals" tell us! We often seek out others going through the same thing as parents, but this "mainstream and spread everyone out" idea has made it quite difficult to find each other!! I still do not personally know--in real life in real time right now--any other parents going through the same things as I am going through at the moment!! None of my friends of "regular kids" have any idea what I am talking about!! My hope is that, once we get my daughter into a deaf school, that THEN I may be able to get to know some of the other parents. But right now, I feel quite alone as I am going through some very difficult decisions. It isn't easy raising a deaf child, but it sure is full of MANY MANY joys and blessings!! I wouldn't change anything for the world!! :)
 
Only recently did it even occur to me that MANY of these "professionals" have NEVER been in my position: MOST of them are NOT parents of deaf children! They give lots of advice, but they have never really "been there, done that", know what I mean? Sometimes I scoff at the advice they give--it may sound good on paper, but they truly have NO idea what it is REALLY like for the deaf child or their parents.

Case in point: my daughter would definitely be considered "successful in the mainstream" according to the professionals. However, she is not HAPPY in the mainstream!! The professionals weigh things like grades, educational level, ability to hear/speak in regular schools, etc.--my daughter has "survived" mainstreaming and has "passed" those kinds of standards. BUT--these same professionals just do not seem to understand the social aspects of mainstreaming AT ALL!!!! They seem to think that deaf kids who hear/speak/keep up with their peers are doing fine in the mainstream---they must be completely oblivious to the whole "social structure" in schools, especially middle and high school!
Your entire post is AWESOME!!!!!! I did pretty good in the mainstream but socially things really sucked. Heck I didnt start dating until I was 19, and in college! Social issues are just so important for being well adjusted....I know that when I'm happy socially, I've done so much better at life in general!
 
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